Top 4 Players that would help the Pats Defense - Page 3 - New England Patriots Forums

dryheat44 · 10-15-2008, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by captain stone

Great thread, folks. I'm glad to see that everyone here has put down the kool-aid and has looked at this team for what it is: a former dynasty whose time has gone, and whose roster is lacking youthful quality depth at several positions because of the craptacularly atrocious drafts of 2004 & 2007. Not only does the defense - and the OL - need an overhaul, but the FO does also, esp. its college scouting dept. In fact, if the value is there, then the OL must be given top priority in next year's draft, because Protecting The Franchise must be the top priority of this FO.

Kind of alarmist for a team that had a pretty good season last year, no?

Ochmed Jones · 10-15-2008, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by captain stone

Great thread, folks. I'm glad to see that everyone here has put down the kool-aid and has looked at this team for what it is: a former dynasty whose time has gone, and whose roster is lacking youthful quality depth at several positions because of the craptacularly atrocious drafts of 2004 & 2007. Not only does the defense - and the OL - need an overhaul, but the FO does also, esp. its college scouting dept. In fact, if the value is there, then the OL must be given top priority in next year's draft, because Protecting The Franchise must be the top priority of this FO.

I do not agree with you on the scouting department thing at all. While we had lost some very talented people from the front office over the past several years, Dimitroff comes to mind, first and foremost, the bottom line is that scouts prepare reports, video techs prepare CDs and BB reviews it all and BB and only BB decides what name goes on the card. Not even Pioli makes that call.
The only thing I could possibly ding the scouts on is their inability to dig a little deeper. ie: We should have known WR Jackson, injuries aside, was going to need a lot more than a lot of help learning the playbook. But then again BB brought Jackson to Foxboro before the draft, we should have known then.
Regardless, the bottom line is that ever since he got here, BB has signed off on every card ever sibmitted. And I am willing to bet my lunch money for the rest of the year that BB didn't rely on exclusively on the scouts reports to make those calls.

Point #2. In my mind, the OL is not the reason Brady got hurt this year, Sammy Morris and his inabiltity to hold his block is the reason Brady got hurt. And not that it matters, but in my mind, even if Brady is healthy we are still 3 and 2, maybe 4 and 1 , because in my mind, the defense lost those games, Cassel and the offense didn't/couldn't rescue the pitiful defense and I doubt Brady could have either.

One good thing that came out of the San Diego game was that Wheatley saw time in the base defense, I would like to see Wheatlety worked in more the rest of the 2nd Quarter of this season so he can become a full time starter by the 3rd Quarter of the season and by late november hopefully grow into a competant CB. If the young guys grow over the next four to six games and the older guys get their second wind, we should have a decent defense for the last six to eight games of the season.
If we aren't out of the playoff picture by then, we could close strong and who knows what can happen from there.

captain stone · 10-15-2008, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctpatsfan77

College scouting is as much art as it is science. The best analogy I've ever heard is one describing college admissions: deciding who to draft isn't comparing apples to oranges; it's comparing apples, oranges, pears, bananas, etc., while trying to decide which one, when fed to a cow today, will produce the tastiest steak two to three years down the road.

As a case in point: consider Chad Jackson v. Greg Jennings. We see Chad Jackson as a bust, and Greg Jennings having success in Green Bay. Unfortunately, though, the Pats don't have a crystal ball, so they can only work with the information they had at the time. Yes, in retrospect, they made a mistake, but you can't make the argument that "they should have known" back then that Jennings would be better; the information they had simply did not lead them to that conclusion. [And, I might add, there's no way of knowing, e.g., that Jennings wouldn't have had even worse injuries in Foxboro than Jackson did.]

I agree to a degree, but we shouldn't let the FO off the hook for the decisions that even at the time reeked of smarter-than-thou over-drafting. For the record, I was on board with the CJack trade-up, esp. after reading of his interview/skull-session with the coaches. I really liked Greg Jennings, too, but we had the extra 3rd-rounder, so dealing one of them to move up the board seemed like proper asset management. The moral of the story: when evaluating WRs - production, character and shuttle times are more important than height/weight, connections and 40 times.

captain stone · 10-15-2008, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dryheat44

Kind of alarmist for a team that had a pretty good season last year, no?

I wish it weren't so, but after watching the last 6 games that mattered, I see the NEP as a mediocre 3-3 team whose personnel/coaching flaws were masked by The Franchise, who more than anyone else, on-field or off-field, has been responsible for the success of the previous 7 years.

Jimke · 10-15-2008, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by captain stone

Great thread, folks. I'm glad to see that everyone here has put down the kool-aid and has looked at this team for what it is: a former dynasty whose time has gone, and whose roster is lacking youthful quality depth at several positions because of the craptacularly atrocious drafts of 2004 & 2007. Not only does the defense - and the OL - need an overhaul, but the FO does also, esp. its college scouting dept. In fact, if the value is there, then the OL must be given top priority in next year's draft, because Protecting The Franchise must be the top priority of this FO.

With Maroney and O'Callahan oft injured, you may soon be adding the
2005 draft to your list of bad drafts. Tom Brady made the offensive line
look better by releasing the ball so quickly and helped out the defense by
keeping them off the field.
I'd like to see the Pats play their younger players like Guyton, Crable,
Wheatley, and Wilhite more the rest of the season to see whether the
Pats have to expend more draft picks at those positions. Their first
draft choice has to be an offensive lineman as you have indicated. No
Brady, no playoffs.

jeffbiologist · 10-15-2008, 06:37 PM

I dont know why anyone hasnt pointed to the obvious.....the pats got CHEAP. They lost Samuel, Gay, Wilson, Seau, and Colvin on defense and replaced them with ROOKIES. With the exception of Oneal(can we start calling him TOAST yet?)we didnt pick up a single impact/starting player on defense! The scabs they picked up, none made the team! When you have Guyton on the field in a goal line stand I would say we have a problem. Rookies can only be so good in a BB defense, Mayo is already showing his limitations.
I still am in the thinking that Branden Albert would have been a better pick than Mayo, time will tell. We cant simply say "we needed LB more", and I am of the opinion that either Vrabel or Thomas could be moved back inside if Crable can come along faster on the outside. With so many rookies making the team the growing pains were bound to be felt. Losing Brady may have actually masked their development...their mistakes wont stick out as much if we dont lose by a single score. With all the emphasis on the defense in the last few years(drafting defense in the first round the last 2 years, 2nd, 3rdand 4th rd this year too)and the $$ addition of Thomas last year--they have little to show for it.

Warren94 · 10-15-2008, 08:11 PM

I agree with part of your statement on the cheap... Guyton is going to be a keeper for this team. Just wait... Gay was not anything special. Samuel yes. Colvin, Seau, the age and Wilson got cut from Tampa Bay...

VJCPatriot · 10-16-2008, 12:00 AM

I think we can get a pretty good LB in free agency. The guys that are hard to find are the shutdown corners. Got to draft those. Unless Wilhite and Wheatley look like worldbeater's by season's end, this Pats secondary is suspect.

Also let me put in my vote for a first day OL to protect Brady.

Jimke · 10-16-2008, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VJCPatriot

I think we can get a pretty good LB in free agency. The guys that are hard to find are the shutdown corners. Got to draft those. Unless Wilhite and Wheatley look like worldbeater's by season's end, this Pats secondary is suspect.

Also let me put in my vote for a first day OL to protect Brady.

I would amend first day OL to #1 draft pick. An offensive lineman who

can start from day one is a must have. I don't see the Pats paying

big money for a top offensive lineman in free agency.

dryheat44 · 10-16-2008, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimke

I would amend first day OL to #1 draft pick. An offensive lineman who

can start from day one is a must have. I don't see the Pats paying

big money for a top offensive lineman in free agency.

Amen. You can hide average cornerbacks, and scheme to help generate a pass rush, but no team goes anywear without a good offensive line. If we could somehow get the next Joe Thomas in the draft (although I don't think there is one this year), it would be the absolute best use of a draft pick.