PatsFans.com Menu
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans
Search

Why has Bill the GM been so poor the past decade?


Rob0729

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
Joined
Nov 14, 2006
Messages
49,462
Reactions
28,016
One thing I think I’ve noticed is that BB is going against his own philosophy with his FA signings recently. He has been notorious for the philosophy “better a year early than a year late” when it comes to cutting ties with aging veterans. But he has been signing older veteran FAs like Parker and Juju and they’re showing why better a year early is a good approach. Can’t help but wonder if he’s being over optimistic about the resilience and ability to sustain performance when players have performed well elsewhere. Maybe he doesn’t know how much time they spent in the tub trying to stay on the field with their old teams. Or am I imagining this trend?

IDK, he did build championship teams in the first part of the dynasty with wash ups and retreads like Bryan Cox, Anthony Pleasants, Ted Washington, etc. He has always tried the bring in the former stud player at the end of his career and try to squeeze out another year or two out of them. It has worked like the guys you mentioned, but have failed too like with Chad Ochocinco or Torry Holt.

But I don't see Smith-Schuster or Parker in that category. They are in the distressed assets category. He loves the guys who have shown in the past that they can be solid players, but they were no longer wanted on their team. Belichick loves to bring these guys in and hope he can ressurect them because he can get them cheap like they did with Randy Moss or LeGarette Blount or Trent Brown. Age isn't an issue with either of those guys.

The problem with both these philosophies is that there is a relatively low success rate. You might be signing players on the cheap, but most of the time you get what you pay for or less. It worked in the early dynasty because the Pats had a solid core of players from Brady to Bruschi to Law to McGinest, etc. And in the later dynasty it worked because Brady could hide a lot of the flaws. It doesn't work now because they neither have a solid core of players nor Brady.
 
Last edited:

Rob0729

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
Joined
Nov 14, 2006
Messages
49,462
Reactions
28,016
Moss got traded for, he didn’t choose to come here, even if he was glad he did.

Harrison was considered old, washed up and damaged goods at the time. Nobody was knocking down his door.

Bruschi negotiated his own contract, his family was here, his kids were entrenched in schools here. If he was out for top dollar, he would have hired an agent.

Edelman was a slot receiver, a great one, but he knew what side of his bread the butter was on. Brady was his boy and would feed him more quality targets than he could handle. Nobody was breaking the bank for him, or they would have.

Brady willingly gave up money to win, he didn’t do it for any other reason, but that and for ten years he was one of the highest paid players in the league and they came close but no cigar. Somebody obviously told him if he sacrificed the savings would go towards going all in to win… they played in four Super Bowls and won three… so they weren’t lying.

This has nothing to do with now, we were told nobody would come here once Tom was gone. Then in 2021 the Patriots had the biggest free agent offseason of any NFL team.

Money talks, BS walks.

One thing. Harrison was in Oakland getting ready to sign a contract with the Raiders when Belichick called him and told him not to sign it and come to Foxboro. Harrison had interest from other teams.

But the Pats let Edelman walk and he was offered a contract by the Giants, but it wasn't enough or even more than what the Patriots were offering and he decided to come back. But if someone gave Edelman a significantly better offer, he might have taken it.
 

TheRainMaker

3rd runner up sexiest man alive 1998
2020 Weekly Picks Winner
2023 Weekly Picks Winner
Joined
Feb 4, 2018
Messages
15,468
Reactions
19,664
Unless they trade him, Pats are stuck with Juju until 2025.

Bill outdid himself signing a worse contract then Agholor.
 

Vindicate

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
Joined
Oct 2, 2015
Messages
1,825
Reactions
2,658
The organization in 19 seasons never had to have the burden of worrying about a QB like many other teams have. This is unfamiliar territory to them. From RK down to the scouts they need to correctly identify the guy, and put players around that guy. Brady isn't here. They need to stop running the Brady patriots offense. That offense was owned and adopted by the GOAT to precision. We the fans have had the joys of 19 seasons of excellence, and 3 seasons of being stuck in mud. The longer we go without a QB the more painful this team with be to watch, sponsors will back out and we'll have to watch games on YouTube.

Are they still running the Brady offense? Genuinely asking as it seems to look a little different (not as much over the middle sweetspots, more run game) yet I have a hard time identifying offensive schemes just by looking at them.
 

moosekill

In the Starting Line-Up
Joined
Sep 10, 2006
Messages
3,113
Reactions
3,844
Unless they trade him, Pats are stuck with Juju until 2025.

Bill outdid himself signing a worse contract then Agholor.
Wr's usually don't just suddenly completely suck. No matter how many times you push this theory, it doesn't take many brains to figure out the QB sucks and JuJU would catch more balls and not suck if the QB didn't completely and totally suck ass.
 

moosekill

In the Starting Line-Up
Joined
Sep 10, 2006
Messages
3,113
Reactions
3,844
News flash. For all of you who keep telling us over and over the WR's all suddenly suck, even though they were good before they came to play with Mac. It isn't them, it is the freaking QB. He sucks, he sucks he sucks. No wr will be good if the QB completely and totally sucks.
 

State

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
Joined
Jan 10, 2005
Messages
5,630
Reactions
3,986
He stopped listening to his scouting department and there was no one who could rein him in.
Absolutely correct. He decided he wanted good character guys. So the interview has become the determining factor. That’s my explanation for second round Jordan Richards. He’s an exceptional person. A leader. Smart. Just did not have the athleticism to be in the nfl. Period.

I saw this with my own eyes in the 2014 Rose Bowl when Jeremy Langford, the Michigan State rb, burned him badly on a goal line run to the corner of the end zone.

Richards gave up contain, spazed out, then lacked the speed to do the job.

Langford was a fourth round pick. Good but nothing special. But he smoked Richards on that play.

The fact BB took Jordan Richards in the second round in 2015 tells you everything you need to know.
 

archstanton543

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
Joined
Oct 22, 2014
Messages
6,484
Reactions
10,203
News flash. For all of you who keep telling us over and over the WR's all suddenly suck, even though they were good before they came to play with Mac. It isn't them, it is the freaking QB. He sucks, he sucks he sucks. No wr will be good if the QB completely and totally sucks.
Juju's knee is preventing him from getting open like he's done most of his career. Good on him for getting the contract he did. Thornton is always hurt and hasn't shown anything on the field. Parker's MO is that he can't get open but can fight for the ball. Douglas is the only guy out there that can get separation and do things with the ball in his hands. We'll see if he can play after getting clotheslined.
 

TheRainMaker

3rd runner up sexiest man alive 1998
2020 Weekly Picks Winner
2023 Weekly Picks Winner
Joined
Feb 4, 2018
Messages
15,468
Reactions
19,664
Wr's usually don't just suddenly completely suck. No matter how many times you push this theory, it doesn't take many brains to figure out the QB sucks and JuJU would catch more balls and not suck if the QB didn't completely and totally suck ass.
News flash. For all of you who keep telling us over and over the WR's all suddenly suck, even though they were good before they came to play with Mac. It isn't them, it is the freaking QB. He sucks, he sucks he sucks. No wr will be good if the QB completely and totally sucks.
QB aside, the WR's have been a problem since 2019 even with Tom Brady. In fact, the 2019 crew was rated the worst by PFF since their inception in 2006. Since then, the Pats WR's have ranked among the worst in separation by their opponent going on 5 years now. If you don't want to believe PFF, on almost every broadcast or sports shows you hear analysts say there's really nobody the Pats have that will keep a D coordinator up at night. Douglas is there only current threat catching a few passes, then disappears.

Juju struggles when the focus is on him. He's had his best years when he's had a capable QB and the attention was on someone else. As nuts as AB is, he called him out on this after AB departed Pittsburgh. Breer reported during camp that his knees would "explode". They haven't, but they do look shot.

The entire offense needs an overhaul and philosophy change.
 

RobertWeathers

Member of the Seattle 7 & Roadie for Metallica
PatsFans.com Supporter
Joined
Sep 7, 2006
Messages
68,153
Reactions
104,938
Same. Bought into the YAC narrative. Couldn't have been more wrong.
The NEP went against their mantra. They went for the "more talented" WR over the one who was "less talented" but produced in this system by being smart and working hard.

The only reason I can think why they didn't resign him was the stupid play in LV.
 

Real fan 02

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
Joined
Sep 26, 2022
Messages
6,723
Reactions
4,252
Are they still running the Brady offense? Genuinely asking as it seems to look a little different (not as much over the middle sweetspots, more run game) yet I have a hard time identifying offensive schemes just by looking at them.
Well according to Charlie Weiss and people around the team they are using it. As the patriots offense is set for a pocket QB. However as bad as it's been I have a hard time seeing what offense they are running. There is no presence of a 3rd down back or slot WR. Those 2 areas are where Brady's bread was buttered in.
 

Thelonious

In the Starting Line-Up
Joined
Mar 3, 2017
Messages
3,103
Reactions
3,859
Surely it's obvious that Bill is a failed GM and a failing HC. These post mortems which seek to parse out the precise reasons for or timing of his decline and failure are no longer of interest to me. That discussion is as pointless as the endless talk about which of our hopeless qb's we ought to start each week.

It's over. Fire him and get busy rebuilding the team. Then we'll have actually substantive matters to discuss.
 

Boomer B

In the Starting Line-Up
2023 Weekly Picks Winner
Joined
Feb 7, 2012
Messages
3,748
Reactions
7,690
Wr's usually don't just suddenly completely suck. No matter how many times you push this theory, it doesn't take many brains to figure out the QB sucks and JuJU would catch more balls and not suck if the QB didn't completely and totally suck ass.
Juju has a total of 4 TDs over the last 3 seasons. He’s not that good and has a deteriorating knee issue. It’s not all on Mac
 

203Pat

Pro Bowl Player
Joined
Jun 10, 2014
Messages
10,188
Reactions
17,600
Wr's usually don't just suddenly completely suck. No matter how many times you push this theory, it doesn't take many brains to figure out the QB sucks and JuJU would catch more balls and not suck if the QB didn't completely and totally suck ass.
When they have chronic knee issues and a ton of miles them for a 27 year old they do.
 

203Pat

Pro Bowl Player
Joined
Jun 10, 2014
Messages
10,188
Reactions
17,600
Juju has a total of 4 TDs over the last 3 seasons. He’s not that good and has a deteriorating knee issue. It’s not all on Mac
Team Bill flailing around and grasping at straws. Anyone who has watched this team objectively knows Mac is a major issue but far from the only issue.
 

holyredeemer

In the Starting Line-Up
Joined
Feb 17, 2006
Messages
4,349
Reactions
5,057
I saw that yesterday as well. This has been echoed by other former players that Bill will just walk by them.
It’s an interesting point considering the amount of players that have come forward and said that they love Bill and have learned more from him about the game than anywhere else. Guys like Moss, McGinest, his relationship with Vrabel, Peppers etc. I guess both can be true but I have a hard time thinking if Bill was such a prick to his players so many would come forward with positive stories. Maybe he ignores the players he doesnt like?
 

203Pat

Pro Bowl Player
Joined
Jun 10, 2014
Messages
10,188
Reactions
17,600
Juju's knee is preventing him from getting open like he's done most of his career. Good on him for getting the contract he did. Thornton is always hurt and hasn't shown anything on the field. Parker's MO is that he can't get open but can fight for the ball. Douglas is the only guy out there that can get separation and do things with the ball in his hands. We'll see if he can play after getting clotheslined.
Juju has been durable from the standpoint he hasn't missed a lot of games in his career but playing through those injuries look like they will shorten his career significantly. At USC he had hand/finger injuries as well as toe/foot injuries and probably a concussion or two never publicly confirmed. Since he has been in the league he has suffered multiple knee issues as well as at least 5 concussions. He may be 27 but he basically has the body of a 35 year old at this point in his career.
 
Last edited:

Boomer B

In the Starting Line-Up
2023 Weekly Picks Winner
Joined
Feb 7, 2012
Messages
3,748
Reactions
7,690
News flash. For all of you who keep telling us over and over the WR's all suddenly suck, even though they were good before they came to play with Mac. It isn't them, it is the freaking QB. He sucks, he sucks he sucks. No wr will be good if the QB completely and totally sucks.
Who was good before they came to play with Mac? Please do tell.

Juju - 3 TDs in KC 2022, 0 in Pitt 2021
Parker - 2 TDs in Mia 2021, 4 in Mia 2020

So in 4 combined seasons before Mac, our top 2 WRs had a combined 9 TDs.

9 TDs is a a good year for 1 WR, not 4 years for 2 WRs.
 

moosekill

In the Starting Line-Up
Joined
Sep 10, 2006
Messages
3,113
Reactions
3,844
When they have chronic knee issues and a ton of miles them for a 27 year old they do.
He had 78 receptions and almost 1000 yards last year. No matter how you slice it, the qb sucks. If the qb sucks the receivers suck. It is a team game, no matter how much some of you dimwits want to change the narrative.

Take your heads out of your asses and admit it, Mac Jones sucks. The best WR in the game would still suck if he had Mac Jones throwing to him.
 

Real fan 02

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
Joined
Sep 26, 2022
Messages
6,723
Reactions
4,252
The NEP went against their mantra. They went for the "more talented" WR over the one who was "less talented" but produced in this system by being smart and working hard.

The only reason I can think why they didn't resign him was the stupid play in LV.
The team has been unrecognizable for any semblance of what being a new England patriots meant for a few seasons. Myers was the example of such. He should be here. However how bad it is I'm sure he's glad he didn't stay. Parker is another player who had talent but just couldn't stay healthy. I honestly don't see him or juju here long term unless they take contract revisions. Other than that 1 will be outright cut and another traded for a 7th. KB and DD were the only guys who could get open and do something.
 


Patriots Slater Calling It Quits After 16 Seasons
Patriots News 2-18, The Draft, Free Agency, and “The Dynasty”
MORSE: The Young Guns Patriots New Defensive Coaches
MORSE: Introducing the New Patriots Front Office
49ers Had a Chance, But Questionable Decisions Cost Them in Loss to Chiefs
Patriots News 2-11, Hightower Returns, Staff, Front Office Thoughts
Ranking The 57 Super Bowls From Worst To Best
Wolf’s Ascension Hopefully Will Help Patriots Fix One Key Problem Moving Forward
MORSE: Patriots Mock Draft #2 – Post College All-Star Games
Felger and Lombardi Interview: Two Sides Argue “The Laziest Narrative” on Belichick
Top