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Why has Bill the GM been so poor the past decade?


Wozzy

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On a basic human level that’s just sad. It’s not hard to be a decent person.
Go listen to the story by Donte Stallworth how BB manipulated the roster after he got hurt so he could continue to get paid and receive league mandated health care.

Go listen to Nate Solder talk about how BB treated him through cancer issues and family strife.

Most of his players speak glowingly about him, except when they recite stories about contract negotiations.

You obviously hate him so you want to push a narrative… it’s not the truth but your agenda is more important than the truth.
 

TheRainMaker

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I think these guys are right. BB seeks players that he believes he can get along with and passes on bigger/faster/stronger guys.
I am sure that coaching a team full of immature divas is a pain in the arse but look at all the "busts" this team has drafted.
For years many thought Bill just can't evaluate talent, but it's becoming clear there's no way he could be this bad at evaluating talent. Rather, he's picking guys that are not going to make waves in the locker room, "do their job" and be good team players.

Regarding WR's, I haven't seen it mentioned by anyone that he was on the staff that coached Keyshawn Johnson from 1997-1999 who was arguably the biggest diva WR in the NFL along with Terrell Owens. He was a pain in the ass and Parcells eventually traded him after the 1999 season.

Years later, Keyshawn made it clear he wanted to play for Bill and the Pats after his time in Carolina in 2006, but Bill passed on him for the 2007 season. Maybe we we can blame Keyshawn for traumatizing Bill into passing up on so many talented WR's. Lol.

With Moss being the anomaly, he had told Tom Brady a few years before they eventually played together that one day they would. Moss rejected the trade to GB and only wanted to go to NE. This was a deal I'm thankful Bill did not pass up.
 

Boomer B

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Go listen to the story by Donte Stallworth how BB manipulated the roster after he got hurt so he could continue to get paid and receive league mandated health care.

Go listen to Nate Solder talk about how BB treated him through cancer issues and family strife.

Most of his players speak glowingly about him, except when they recite stories about contract negotiations.

You obviously hate him so you want to push a narrative… it’s not the truth but your agenda is more important than the truth.
Agenda? I’m a Pats fan and my only agenda is what is best for the team going forward.

Bill is the best coach of the last 30 years, but in my opinion (and many others) it’s time to move on. I’m all for Bill getting his red jacket, statue, etc… no matter whether he’s an ******* or not.
 

Wozzy

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Agenda? I’m a Pats fan and my only agenda is what is best for the team going forward.

Bill is the best coach of the last 30 years, but in my opinion (and many others) it’s time to move on. I’m all for Bill getting his red jacket, statue, etc… no matter whether he’s an ******* or not.
No coach can win without good players. Suggesting players won’t come here because of Bill is absurd.

They’ll follow the money first then take everything else into account. Taxes, best situation for them and their family… BB being mean is laughable.
 

Patriot Missile

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I think the departure of Scar took a huge hit on the oline. Seemed like they could make anything work while he was here. Great coach, HOF first ballot if you ask me. Probably the biggest loss after Brady.

Bill has been pretty strong at the secondary picks. Quite good actually. No complaints there.

He has passed up on a lot of talent that other teams and armchair scouts like. How much of that is the scouting department and how much is BB is a mystery to me.

Used to have a metric for LB’s which was pretty much 6’3+ 250+. Went away from it for Mayo and now seems to stray from the position all together after the Young conversion didn’t work out. Seems to be be low key bargain basement signups at that position lately. Hightower 13 years ago seems like ages.

Defensive line? Aside from Barmore in the last 10 years nothing impressive. Took a chance on Easley and blew up in his face.

And lastly WR. Let’s not even go there. Clueless comes to mind.
 

Boomer B

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No coach can win without good players. Suggesting players won’t come here because of Bill is absurd.

They’ll follow the money first then take everything else into account. Taxes, best situation for them and their family… BB being mean is laughable.
Yup, players come or stay for multiple reasons: money, family, situation, chance to win

I’m saying that we can cross out the “chance to win” box now. Harrison and Moss came here for less money for a chance to win. Brady, Bruschi, Edelman, and others stayed for less money then they could get elsewhere. Winning was a big component for the Pats attracting players and also keeping players.
 

FCB02062

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For years, I and many others were relentlessly bashing Bill the Bozo wasting high draft picks on bums like Cyrus Jones, Duke Dawson, Sony Michel, Jordan Richards, Ras I Dowling, Darius Butler....we could go on. None of these could play (outside of Michel who had a good playoff run and maybe 6 or 7 productive games as a rookie in 2018. More often than not Bill would reach for defeinsive players who can "play" special teams.
The In Bill We Trust idiots would ***** and moan to the mods about us ripping King Bill for his stupid picks, and summarily we'd get preemptive GDT bans. They'd pull the old "nah, nah, na nah nah"" 5 year old **** when the Patriots happened to get to a super bowl, win won, or get to the conference title game despite these **** picks.
What the IBWT fools failed to realize, and hopefully they realize now, it was Brady's excellence that transcended Bill the GM's horrible waste of high draft capital. And maybe, just maybe, had ****ing Bill NOT wasted a second rounder on Dowling, and picked Kyle Rudolph, Randall Cobb, or Torey Smith (all picked after Dowling) maybe the offense is neutered in the Super Bowl because Gronkowski amounted to not much more than a decoy.
Or maybe, just maybe, not wasted the #64 pick on Jordan ****ing Richards and picked, hmm, I don't know, Tyler Lockett, Tevin Coleman, Chris Conley, Jamison Crowder, Stefon Diggs! (all picked after Richards)....maybe, just maybe, they're not relying on the corpse of Stephen Jackson (and BLOWING home field in the Miami game to get Jackon "going") and maybe they put up more than 18 in Denver and Brady has more options at receiver other than Edelman and Amendola. In that AFC Title game other than Amendola and Edelman, Lafell and Keyshawn Martin had ONE target between them. Spare the talk about Denver's defense - Brady was exemplary enough to get his team to with a 2 point conversion in the closing seconds to tie the game - despite Bill's weak drafting on offense.
I argue that had Bill not ****ed up the draft as often as he did, the Patriots have another trophy. Now I know the IBWT morons will play the "well, that's true for any team", yes, it may be, but some people in here still worship Bill Belichick as their deity (although admittedly, many of these drones have shown their true colors and have flown the coop) and if Bill is the best of all time, how on God's (Bill's, to some) Green Earth can Bill be making these ridiculous wasteful draft picks?
 

SammyBlueCat

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Bill passes on players who are questionable teammates, not a system fit or culture fit. Tom Landry said it best. You can't teach stupid. So when he says, "players he likes" I think fans are taking that too literally.

Athleticism is one component to a successful NFL career and a successful NFL team. You can stack a roster of 1st and 2nd rd picks but if they can't execute in the system and the culture sucks the team will also suck.

Bill is entering his final days as HC/GM because he has failed miserably recently on finding players who are talented AND can play in his system.
That's all good.

I do have a question: should his system adjust or evolve over time?
 

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That's all good.

I do have a question: should his system adjust or evolve over time?
I think it's evolved. Just not in a successful direction.

And for me, "system" is not just what they run on offense/defense. It's culture. Vibe. Coaching techniques. Approach to drafting/player evaluation in relation to scheme. Free agency, etc.
 

203Pat

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To me the issue with Bill's drafting is multi-faceted.

The first, and main issue, is how he drafts on offense. Bill hasn't adapted to the whole "basketball on grass" mindset still opting to prioritize receivers and tight ends who can block in the running game instead of the guys who may lack in that area but can win one on one matchups. You can scheme guys open different ways but as we have seen that doesn't work consistently and sometimes (a lot of times with the game on the line) you need a guy who is just a better athlete than the guy in front of him.

The second is how he drafts in the front seven on defense which is basically reflective of his offensive strategy. Bill seems intent on making guys on defense be a jack of all trades instead of letting them master one area. We have seen it with Judon, Chandler Jones, and Josh Uche. Bill wants them to be able to set the edge and occasionally drop back in coverage and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't but the more they're doing that the less their rushing the passer which is their main talent. He also refuses to draft/play a rangy sideline to sideline LB in favor of guys like Bentley and Tavai who are solid in specific roles but the role they employ is mainly against the run in a league that has moved away from the run. Sticking to the 260 LB linebackers against teams with speed like Miami just isn't going to work.

The third issue is what information he relies on when making his picks. He seems to prioritize players from programs he has some sort of personal relationship with. Sometimes it helps but a lot of times it doesn't. We still end up with Jermaine Cunningham over Carlos Dunlap or kids who can't play like Cyrus Jones. Same can be said for whatever metics he utilizes from combines/pro days. Maybe the three cone, etc was an effective judge at certain positions 20 years ago but it may not be as big a factor now.

Fourth is his obsession with special teams. To me that is how we end up with guys like Tavon Wilson and Jordan Richards in the second round when everyone else had them as late round/UDFAs. The need for guys to play all 4 downs fits into a lot of my previously stated issues but the fact Bill still seems to overvalue guys who aren't good at their actual position because they can end up being a gunner is ridiculous. I would venture to guess most teams keep a veteran or two (not counting kicker/punter/long snapper) to play special teams primarily and supplement the rest with rookie contract backups from other positions to fill out special teams. Bill seems to draft guys with these things in mind. Special teams is rapidly being phased out of the game so continually placing emphasis on it is eating assets badly needed in other areas.
 

MahomestoKelce

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When has Bill been good at evaluating offensive talent

Good offensive skills position players drafted by Bill other than Tom Brady.

(1) Deion Branch 2nd
(2) Edelman 7th (note QB converted to WR)
(3) Gronkowski 2nd (note fell due to injury concerns)
(4) Hernandez 4th (fell due to "character" concerns)
(5) Garoppolo 2nd

The last good offensive player drafted was in 2014. So a total of 5. One of who was a QB who converted to WR. And one of whom fell in the draft due to character concerns and ended up being a murdering psychopath. So basically 3 real hits, one of whom only played 1.5 games with the Patriots.

To that you could add Jakobi Meyers as an UDFA in 2019. Except note that BB played N'Keal Harry over him for first 5 games in 2020, and choose to Smith-Schuester over him in FA.
Last all pro was drafted 13.5 years ago. Gronk. Maybe Chandler Jones?

Is there another team in the league who hasn't drafted an all Pro in 13 plus years?
 
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MahomestoKelce

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To me the issue with Bill's drafting is multi-faceted.

The first, and main issue, is how he drafts on offense. Bill hasn't adapted to the whole "basketball on grass" mindset still opting to prioritize receivers and tight ends who can block in the running game instead of the guys who may lack in that area but can win one on one matchups. You can scheme guys open different ways but as we have seen that doesn't work consistently and sometimes (a lot of times with the game on the line) you need a guy who is just a better athlete than the guy in front of him.

The second is how he drafts in the front seven on defense which is basically reflective of his offensive strategy. Bill seems intent on making guys on defense be a jack of all trades instead of letting them master one area. We have seen it with Judon, Chandler Jones, and Josh Uche. Bill wants them to be able to set the edge and occasionally drop back in coverage and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't but the more they're doing that the less their rushing the passer which is their main talent. He also refuses to draft/play a rangy sideline to sideline LB in favor of guys like Bentley and Tavai who are solid in specific roles but the role they employ is mainly against the run in a league that has moved away from the run. Sticking to the 260 LB linebackers against teams with speed like Miami just isn't going to work.

The third issue is what information he relies on when making his picks. He seems to prioritize players from programs he has some sort of personal relationship with. Sometimes it helps but a lot of times it doesn't. We still end up with Jermaine Cunningham over Carlos Dunlap or kids who can't play like Cyrus Jones. Same can be said for whatever metics he utilizes from combines/pro days. Maybe the three cone, etc was an effective judge at certain positions 20 years ago but it may not be as big a factor now.

Fourth is his obsession with special teams. To me that is how we end up with guys like Tavon Wilson and Jordan Richards in the second round when everyone else had them as late round/UDFAs. The need for guys to play all 4 downs fits into a lot of my previously stated issues but the fact Bill still seems to overvalue guys who aren't good at their actual position because they can end up being a gunner is ridiculous. I would venture to guess most teams keep a veteran or two (not counting kicker/punter/long snapper) to play special teams primarily and supplement the rest with rookie contract backups from other positions to fill out special teams. Bill seems to draft guys with these things in mind. Special teams is rapidly being phased out of the game so continually placing emphasis on it is eating assets badly needed in other areas.
And those first two guys were/are more than just good players. So even when he has the players, he is asking them to do things they are not used too.

In hindsight, it was a mistake trading Jones. He would have been especially useful in the Eagles Super Bowl.

Why tag an all pro in Thuney. Then, let him walk after that season? Thuney should have been a forever Patriot.
 
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203Pat

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Forgot this one. Absurd.


View attachment 54871
This has been another one of my issues with Bill the GM when it comes to free agency. For a long time Bill was "right" by letting players walk for big money elsewhere only for that player not to see the same level of success more often than not. I put right in quotation marks because I think it is more than just "See! *blank* wasn't worth what he got in (different city)!" When Deion Branch went to Seattle did he not live up to the level of production he had here? He clearly didn't but does that make Bill's decision the correct one? I don’t think so because I fully believe if we had Branch in 2006 we would have won another Super Bowl. Obviously that can never be proven but I wish on some of these guys Bill would match what some other team was going to "over pay" because that player is productive here and an important player.
 

TomPatriot

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He stopped listening to his scouting department and there was no one who could rein him in.
 

MahomestoKelce

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This has been another one of my issues with Bill the GM when it comes to free agency. For a long time Bill was "right" by letting players walk for big money elsewhere only for that player not to see the same level of success more often than not. I put right in quotation marks because I think it is more than just "See! *blank* wasn't worth what he got in (different city)!" When Deion Branch went to Seattle did he not live up to the level of production he had here? He clearly didn't but does that make Bill's decision the correct one? I don’t think so because I fully believe if we had Branch in 2006 we would have won another Super Bowl. Obviously that can never be proven but I wish on some of these guys Bill would match what some other team was going to "over pay" because that player is productive here and an important player.
Few things. Either:

A) The players aren't worth a 2nd contract.
B) They are worth it. But Bill does not want to pay up. Unlike the old days, more players are going on to have more success when leaving NE.

Both A & B fall on the GM's shoulders. If a player isn't good, bad drafting. If he is good enough, yet you think they are easily replaceable, it's bad personnel management.

The Patriots needed a go to guy who would make plays and be open. Branch was that guy. I think Bill would take that back if he could. No way Indy comes back if Branch is in that game. One big play for a TD was all they needed. And I don't believe for a second they lose to the Grossman led Bears. A team they didn't have much issue with month or so previous.

OT, but I believe 2006 changed people's opinions on Brady. To go 12-4 with those receivers and be a TD pass away from a SB berth was impressive. Couldn't really look at him as a "game manager" anymore. It was obvious, as it should have been way before that time, that he was a great QB. In some ways, it was one of his more impressive seasons when you factor in the injuries and receiver options.
 

condon84

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Bill passes on players who are questionable teammates, not a system fit or culture fit. Tom Landry said it best. You can't teach stupid. So when he says, "players he likes" I think fans are taking that too literally.

Athleticism is one component to a successful NFL career and a successful NFL team. You can stack a roster of 1st and 2nd rd picks but if they can't execute in the system and the culture sucks the team will also suck.

Bill is entering his final days as HC/GM because he has failed miserably recently on finding players who are talented AND can play in his system.

Bill just hasn't found a competent QB since Brady retired.

As bad as Cam was we were fighting for a playoff spot.

Mac his rookie year was relegated to one read and we got enough games early in the year where he didn't make too many mistakes and we made the playoffs.

Last year, Mac got a free reign of the offense and he sucked yet we still were in the fight for a playoff spot.

This year the wheels completely fell off on the Mac train.

Bill is a good QB away from competing again for a SB. He's made roster mistakes, but it's magnified because of who he is, the comparison between him and Brady's success without each other, and the overall toxic discourse of sports.

Get rid of Bill? Then what? We get an unproven guy who, even if we have a SB roster, might not have the acumen and game management to win in big games.

At the very least, if Bill get's that kind of roster, he would put the team in the best position to win.
 

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What are we waiting on to Lock up Onwenu??
 

RobertWeathers

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Bill just hasn't found a competent QB since Brady retired.

As bad as Cam was we were fighting for a playoff spot.

Mac his rookie year was relegated to one read and we got enough games early in the year where he didn't make too many mistakes and we made the playoffs.

Last year, Mac got a free reign of the offense and he sucked yet we still were in the fight for a playoff spot.

This year the wheels completely fell off on the Mac train.

Bill is a good QB away from competing again for a SB. He's made roster mistakes, but it's magnified because of who he is, the comparison between him and Brady's success without each other, and the overall toxic discourse of sports.

Get rid of Bill? Then what? We get an unproven guy who, even if we have a SB roster, might not have the acumen and game management to win in big games.

At the very least, if Bill get's that kind of roster, he would put the team in the best position to win.
Sure. Give every team Pat Mahomes and they are a contender. I agree the franchise QB makes the HC but lets take that out of the evaluation of Bill.

Status quo doesn't mean things will be better than the alternative.

Here is what we know.

It is undeniable Bill is on a cold streak on the player acquisition side. Thats Bill the GM.

It is also undeniable the team has committed more penalties every year since 2020. Thats Bill the HC.

It is a fact the team has not won a playoff game since 2019 and will have a 2nd straight losing season.

I do not want Bill deciding who gets $100m in cap space nor deciding who is picked #3 in the draft.
 


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