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What if the Patriots had made the playoffs under Matt Cassel?

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sb1

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Another question - how would they do if Brady wasn't injured?

The schedule was very easy but I don't think they go undefeated since the defense wasn't good enough. I do think they make the playoffs for sure and then who knows?

Their losses were
Miami (Wildcat game) - They still lose this one with TB they weren't ready for that
Steelers - competitive until late, turnovers hurt. Steelers were also a much better team.
Chargers - Cassel didn't have a great game and this is where the weak secondary was really exposed
Colts - this is the game they'd flip to a W for sure and that's all they needed to get in. Cassel lost it with an INT.
Jets in OT - Possibly could flip this one too but they did score 31 and Cassel had a monster game throwing for 400 yards and 3 TD and a 103 rating and rushing for 62.

I don't know if the Steelers and Chargers games flip but they're more competitive with Brady at least.
 
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Ring 6

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As Bill said, we couldn't beat any of the top teams that year, so it would likely have been a one-and-done in the playoffs...

2008 was a remarkable coaching job by BB. With Brady hurt in week 1, the entire team could have (and should have) imploded. They could have made every excuse in the book to give up on their season, but thanks to Bill they made a playoff push and for that they should be proud.
That team was decimated by injuries. Brady missed basically the whole season, AD played 9 games (and was playing really well before he was injured)
Rodney played 6 games, maroney 3.
Still they win the last 4, 3 of them on the road and were playing well going into the playoffs but lost to a tiebreaker.
 

MAC10

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Helps to have both a very easy schedule and the same offensive weapons who went undefeated the season before minus the quarterback. I don't think Bill had much to do with that.

Let's stop undermining Bill in every post, ok?

Another question - how would they do if Brady wasn't injured?

The schedule was very easy but I don't think they go undefeated since the defense wasn't good enough. I do think they make the playoffs for sure and then who knows?

Their losses were
Miami (Wildcat game) - They still lose this one with TB they weren't ready for that
Steelers - competitive until late, turnovers hurt. Steelers were also a much better team.
Chargers - Cassel didn't have a great game and this is where the weak secondary was really exposed
Colts - this is the game they'd flip to a W for sure and that's all they needed to get in. Cassel lost it with an INT.
Jets in OT - Possibly could flip this one too but they did score 31 and Cassel had a monster game throwing for 400 yards and 3 TD and a 103 rating and rushing for 62.

I don't know if the Steelers and Chargers games flip but they're more competitive with Brady at least.

We probably win the super bowl...the 2008 team was pretty much the same as the 2007 team.
 
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sb1

Hall of Fame Poster
Let's stop undermining Bill in every post, ok?
Not undermining anyone. It's a fact that the Patriots had a very easy schedule and their personnel on offense minus the QB was still there in 08 and that has nothing to do with the coach.

If the Patriots were coached by Andy Reid or Mike Tomlin or Sean Payton or any other good coach instead of Bill in 08 do you think they fall off a cliff? I don't.
 

TheRainMaker

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Another question - how would they do if Brady wasn't injured?
As long as they avoided the Ravens, they win the Super Bowl. They beat the Colts on the road with Brady. It was debated in the past that they lose to the Steelers, but Brady beats them in the regular season as he doesn't have those weird turnovers Cassel had. That's 13-3 right there.
 

MAC10

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Not undermining anyone. It's a fact that the Patriots had a very easy schedule and their personnel on offense minus the QB was still there in 08 and that has nothing to do with the coach.

If the Patriots were coached by Andy Reid or Mike Tomlin or Sean Payton or any other good coach instead of Bill in 08 do you think they fall off a cliff? I don't.

You don't get it, do you? It's more than just personnel. It's about holding together a team that lost its HOF QB for the season. The team would have collapsed under Andy Reid, Tomlin, or Payton. When have those coaches put together a good regular season with a stiff for a QB?

And you are on record as saying "it's all about the QB." Well, Cassell sucks, so whom do you think transformed him into a decent starter in 2008?

2008 was all about the coaching. You're little snipes about Bill are getting annoying.
 

PATSYLICIOUS

Pro Bowl Player
Another question - how would they do if Brady wasn't injured?

The schedule was very easy but I don't think they go undefeated since the defense wasn't good enough. I do think they make the playoffs for sure and then who knows?

Their losses were
Miami (Wildcat game) - They still lose this one with TB they weren't ready for that
Steelers - competitive until late, turnovers hurt. Steelers were also a much better team.
Chargers - Cassel didn't have a great game and this is where the weak secondary was really exposed
Colts - this is the game they'd flip to a W for sure and that's all they needed to get in. Cassel lost it with an INT.
Jets in OT - Possibly could flip this one too but they did score 31 and Cassel had a monster game throwing for 400 yards and 3 TD and a 103 rating and rushing for 62.

I don't know if the Steelers and Chargers games flip but they're more competitive with Brady at least.

Anything would have been possible with Brady and that offense, but Id probably lean towards they do contend for a title but come up short given our defense. The offense with brady stalled twice in the 07 playoffs, no chance the 2008 defense holds 2 top teams under 20 if that happened again.

Seems like every all time great offense recently had stalled at some point and either lost or needed their d to bail them out. 99 rams vs tb, 01 rams, 04 colts, 07 pats, 11 pats, 13 broncos. You typically need a defense capable of stealing one no matter how good the offense is.
 
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Ring 6

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Not undermining anyone. It's a fact that the Patriots had a very easy schedule and their personnel on offense minus the QB was still there in 08 and that has nothing to do with the coach.

If the Patriots were coached by Andy Reid or Mike Tomlin or Sean Payton or any other good coach instead of Bill in 08 do you think they fall off a cliff? I don't.
Yes they would have
And did.
Reid went from SB to 6-10 in 2005 when mcnab missed less than half the season. Then went 4-12 in 2012 and got fired.
Payton had 3 straight 7-9 seasons from 14-16
And after 13-3,13-3,12-4 missed the playoffs at 9-8 when he lost his qb.
Tomlin went 8-8 when his qb was injured
 
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Hyped

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Man, that was a great season....from shouting down a Chiefs fan in week 1, after Cassel hit Moss for 50 yards, who had been cheering Brady's injury earlier... the wild wins over the Rams/Seahawks....Cassel throwing for 400 yards down in Miami....and for it all to end on a Brett Favre completion on 3rd down of OT.....

I loved that team...they scratched and clawed all year... and yes I think they would have beaten the Steelers and won the Superbowl, baby!
 

sb1

Hall of Fame Poster
You don't get it, do you? It's more than just personnel. It's about holding together a team that lost its HOF QB for the season. The team would have collapsed under Andy Reid, Tomlin, or Payton. When have those coaches put together a good regular season with a stiff for a QB?
Andy Reid turned Alex Smith into a really good QB with the Chiefs. There's no reason to think he couldn't do that with Matt Cassel on the Patriots with a stacked offense like those Chiefs had.

I believe any GOOD coach would have done well with the talent and schedule that team had that year. That's not the same thing as saying "any coach".

And you are on record as saying "it's all about the QB." Well, Cassell sucks, so whom do you think transformed him into a decent starter in 2008?

2008 was all about the coaching. You're little snipes about Bill are getting annoying.
Calm down nobody is sniping anything about Bill. And it is about the QB. The downgrade at QB that year was the difference between an undefeated team and a team that ended their season in December only one year later.
 
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sb1

Hall of Fame Poster
Yes they would have
And did.
Reid went from SB to 6-10 in 2005 when mcnab missed less than half the season. Then went 4-12 in 2012 and got fired.
Payton had 3 straight 7-9 seasons from 14-16
And after 13-3,13-3,12-4 missed the playoffs at 9-8 when he lost his qb.
Tomlin went 8-8 when his qb was injured
None of those teams had talent on offense resembling what the Patriots had in 07-08 nor the easy schedule the Patriots had in 08.
 

Wozzy

In the Starting Line-Up
The 2008 team wasn't the same, Stallworth got hurt, Maroney the leading rusher from 2007 got hurt. The defense was injured and not as good.

They could have made some noise in the playoffs if Cassel had started faster and they stayed healthier. QB play was not their issue in 2008.

If Eli Manning can win two rings, Joe Flacco, Nick Foles, Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, and Mark Rypien can win one... then Cassel could have won a ring if his team was good enough. It never was, and they got screwed in 2008 by the NFL's rules for playoff seeding. Cassel made a pro bowl the following year on the Chiefs, he wasn't amazing but he was good. It's a TEAM game.
 

Ring 6

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None of those teams had talent on offense resembling what the Patriots had in 07-08 nor the easy schedule the Patriots had in 08.
They went in the tank. Your qualifiers are silly.
 

Ring 6

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Andy Reid turned Alex Smith into a really good QB with the Chiefs. There's no reason to think he couldn't do that with Matt Cassel on the Patriots with a stacked offense like those Chiefs had.

I believe any GOOD coach would have done well with the talent and schedule that team had that year. That's not the same thing as saying "any coach".


Calm down nobody is sniping anything about Bill. And it is about the QB. The downgrade at QB that year was the difference between an undefeated team and a team that ended their season in December only one year later.
Yeah, you are wrong, and yes it’s because you have an agenda.
 

MAC10

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Andy Reid turned Alex Smith into a really good QB with the Chiefs. There's no reason to think he couldn't do that with Matt Cassel on the Patriots with a stacked offense like those Chiefs had.

I believe any GOOD coach would have done well with the talent and schedule that team had that year. That's not the same thing as saying "any coach".


Calm down nobody is sniping anything about Bill. And it is about the QB. The downgrade at QB that year was the difference between an undefeated team and a team that ended their season in December only one year later.

Alex Smith is a 1st overall draft pick. He was talented. OTOH, Cassell was selected 230th in the 7th round of the 2005 draft.

You're a pro at twisting things. Did I not say that i thought NE would have won the super bowl if Brady was healthy in 2008 (which btw you laughed at)?

In 2008, the season that actually played out, it was all about the coaching. Just look at Matt Cassel and how he played that year (21 TDs, 11 INTs, 11-5 record) vs how he played in KC (19-28 record, 59 TDs, 44 INTs over 4 years) and other teams. Again, you repeatedly say that it's "all about the QB," and then when a crappy QB plays well under BB it's "all about the easy schedule and talent around him, not the coaching."
 
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Rob0729

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Anything is possible. They could have gone deep into the playoffs. Hell could have won the Super Bowl. Look at the Bengals. Few thought they would have won their first game last year. And the year before, many people didn't think the Bucs would have gotten out of Wild Card weekend.

But realistically odds are good they would have either been one and done or won one game and lost in the next round.
 

Pape

In the Starting Line-Up
He was right after ellis , either him or jonathon wilhite i think (yikes!). That was probably our worst secondary ever, even worse than the 2011 version. Thats hard to do
What ever year Duane stark was here gets my vote for the worst patriots secondary
 

crawhammer

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
In the 2008 Week 11 game against the JEST, Cassel became the first QB to throw for 400 yards and rush for 60 in the same game. He tied that game on a fourth-down throw to Randy Moss after leading a textbook two-minute drive.

Unfortunately, the defense didn't hold, and the JEST kicked a FG to win that game. Ultimately, the 11–5 Patriots became one of the only 11-win teams to miss the playoffs.

How differently would things have turned out if they had won that game? They would've been 12–4, and the 3 seed in the playoffs. Moreover, at that point, Cassel looked like a top 5 QB after thrashing the Raiders, Cardinals, and Bills. While I doubt they would've won the Super Bowl, I think it's reasonable to think they might have won at least one playoff game.

So, either way: how differently do you think Pats history (including his trade value, which teams might have wanted him) turns out if he makes the playoffs, or wins a playoff game (or, if you really want to go there, somehow won the SB)?
With basically the same team a season prior they were 16-0 with an offense that averaged 37 points per game. They scored 11 points fewer per game with Cassel. Brady had 50 TDs to Cassel's 21... that's a 58% decrease in production. The 2008 team was 7-0 against teams with a losing record and 4-5 against teams .500 or better. The "success" of that team/season is highly overstated by some.
 

MAC10

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With basically the same team a season prior they were 16-0 with an offense that averaged 37 points per game. They scored 11 points fewer per game with Cassel. Brady had 50 TDs to Cassel's 21... that's a 58% decrease in production.

Because the offense was all about the running game that year…
 
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