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What are you expecting from Mac Jones this season?

2022 Patriots Season:
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Sep 25th
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MAC10

Hall of Fame Poster
2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
A bunch of Mac's interceptions, I've noticed, are based on bad mechanics. He's not stepping into his throws with his left foot - either because it's the way he's used to doing things at Alabama OR because of heavy pocket pressure up the middle. I don't know if Andrews lost a step or two last year.
 

Wozzy

In the Starting Line-Up
A bunch of Mac's interceptions, I've noticed, are based on bad mechanics. He's not stepping into his throws with his left foot - either because it's the way he's used to doing things at Alabama OR because of heavy pocket pressure up the middle. I don't know if Andrews lost a step or two last year.
Things he’ll learn from in year two, what works in college doesn’t work in the pro’s. He needs to use good form and step into every throw, the windows are smaller.
 

MAC10

Hall of Fame Poster
2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
Things he’ll learn from in year two, what works in college doesn’t work in the pro’s. He needs to use good form and step into every throw, the windows are smaller.

It's worth noting that Andrews had a PFF grade of only 78, but he was ranked in the top 5 last year. I think overall the line gave him solid protection. Mac has to learn that if there is pressure up the middle he should just take the sack or throw it away - no need to force balls into tight windows when there is no play to be made there.
 

Wozzy

In the Starting Line-Up
Yeah, no one truly knows. Could have been that scouts were wrong; could have been that he improved. Probably somewhere in between. But the fact is, scouting reports are often wrong in a big way. How many scouts said Gronkowski has all-pro talent, let alone Hall of Fame? We’re talking about the most physically gifted dual TE the game has ever seen, and I remember a collective groan as the team passed on Sergio Kindle.
Brady put on well over 10-15 pounds of lean muscle mass from year one to year two, that’s not debateable.

Brady improved substantially from 2001 to 2004, look at his stats, look at his evolution. He threw one TD (and one INT) in the entirety of the 2001 playoffs. The revisionism about his arrival is funny to those of us old enough to remember.

Nobody gives personal guarantees on rookies because the average NFL career lasts three years. The washout rate among all rookies is extremely high, that’s the nature of the draft.
Richard Sherman, fifth round; Antonio Brown, sixth round. You could write a very long list of players, and I'm only including a couple that come to mind because when you watch them play (in their primes), you wonder how scouts can overlook their upside.
Happens all the time, the negative types here dismiss late draft picks, the optimistic overestimate them… the pragmatic measure their athleticism, college stats and the program they’re entering into and give an educated guess.
Meanwhile, there wasn't just one scouting report on Brady, even though that's often cited. I'm sure you can always find scouts who were really high on one guy, but just some that come to mind:

  • Dick Rebhein (well documented)
  • Whitey Walsh (Giants scout...article in NY Post about how he wanted Brady)
  • Matt Cavanaugh (Ravens...badly wanted Brady)
  • Jesse Kaye (Jets...also pushed for Brady)
  • Mike Riley (Chargers...pushed GM to draft Brady but was overruled)
  • Bill Polian (yeah, I'm joking here, but it's not a stretch to think others thought higher of Brady than one infamous scouting report)
The majority of scouting reports said the same thing about Brady. What a bunch of retired scouts and GM’s said years later after Tom was an unmitigated success is worthless. He was a 6th round pick… everyone had a shot at him, multiple shots at him, they could have had him in the 5th. The Pats already had a starter and full QB room but took him anyway. They felt the strongest about him.
I think these are the real points:
  • His arm strength certainly didn't wow anyone, even though his actual arm strength and ability to drive the ball downfield seems perfectly fine when watching his college games. Clearly it improved with training and especially with mechanics, but I think that oft-cited report is pretty ridiculous. Also of note: Chad Pennington was the first QB drafted, and his lack of arm strength is well documented.
Mac’s arm looked perfectly fine at Alabama. There are videos showing him heaving it 45-50 yards that were all air yards in college, there are videos of him lacing 35-40 laser beams into tight windows. Selective memory…
  • He came out of Michigan at a time when they had Drew Henson, the physical marvel, and Brian Griese had recently been drafted as well. The idea that Michigan's system/talent led to success would be a reasonable line of thinking.
  • The NFL was still in the dual-threat QB craze. Check out the 1999 draft from the year before. Not to say teams didn't want an immobile pocket passer, but they favored the mobile types, especially if the passing skills were comparable.
The NFL is in a perpetual state of dual threat QB love, the only teams that make mistakes are the ones who take QB’s who run well but struggle to pass (Lamar Jackson). Passing is the job, running is gravy. The least athletic runner annually for the last two decades has 7 rings, kind of highlights the importance of running QB’s. Mac is faster than Tom, he’s about as fast as Patrick Mahomes… it’s his decision making and endurance he needs to improve.
 

Wozzy

In the Starting Line-Up
It's worth noting that Andrews had a PFF grade of only 78, but he was ranked in the top 5 last year. I think overall the line gave him solid protection. Mac has to learn that if there is pressure up the middle he should just take the sack or throw it away - no need to force balls into tight windows when there is no play to be made there.
Enter Cole Strange…

PFF player grades are worthless.
 
Last edited:

BaconGrundleCandy

Not the kind of guy to say I told you so ...
PatsFans.com Supporter
Yeah, no one truly knows. Could have been that scouts were wrong; could have been that he improved. Probably somewhere in between. But the fact is, scouting reports are often wrong in a big way. How many scouts said Gronkowski has all-pro talent, let alone Hall of Fame? We’re talking about the most physically gifted dual TE the game has ever seen, and I remember a collective groan as the team passed on Sergio Kindle.

Richard Sherman, fifth round; Antonio Brown, sixth round. You could write a very long list of players, and I'm only including a couple that come to mind because when you watch them play (in their primes), you wonder how scouts can overlook their upside.

Meanwhile, there wasn't just one scouting report on Brady, even though that's often cited. I'm sure you can always find scouts who were really high on one guy, but just some that come to mind:

  • Dick Rebhein (well documented)
  • Whitey Walsh (Giants scout...article in NY Post about how he wanted Brady)
  • Matt Cavanaugh (Ravens...badly wanted Brady)
  • Jesse Kaye (Jets...also pushed for Brady)
  • Mike Riley (Chargers...pushed GM to draft Brady but was overruled)
  • Bill Polian (yeah, I'm joking here, but it's not a stretch to think others thought higher of Brady than one infamous scouting report)

I think these are the real points:
  • His arm strength certainly didn't wow anyone, even though his actual arm strength and ability to drive the ball downfield seems perfectly fine when watching his college games. Clearly it improved with training and especially with mechanics, but I think that oft-cited report is pretty ridiculous. Also of note: Chad Pennington was the first QB drafted, and his lack of arm strength is well documented.
  • He came out of Michigan at a time when they had Drew Henson, the physical marvel, and Brian Griese had recently been drafted as well. The idea that Michigan's system/talent led to success would be a reasonable line of thinking.
  • The NFL was still in the dual-threat QB craze. Check out the 1999 draft from the year before. Not to say teams didn't want an immobile pocket passer, but they favored the mobile types, especially if the passing skills were comparable.
I know the Raiders had a very high grade on him. Honestly I think most were just afraid of the back but thought he'd be great if he could stay healthy. I know most had him pegged as a "diva" too and knew about Gronk clan. Jeez Serigo Kindle, huh??

Anyway I think the majority were on point with Gronk but just scared off bc of health concerns.

Sherman was a weird one bc of a late position switch. I know a few NFL guys loved him but he wasn't on everyone's radar.

Tough to paint a picture for people but Henson was a star before he barely hit the field. Unbelievable amount of hype around that guy. Michigan QB, possible NYY in the late 90's!?!? That's as big as it gets.
 

n6249c

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
Happens all the time, the negative types here dismiss late draft picks, the optimistic overestimate them… the pragmatic measure their athleticism, college stats and the program they’re entering into and give an educated guess.
and the really smart ones wait and see.

so much depends on how that person responds to a totally new environment and experience. BB gives all his players the opportunity to show what they do with it. Then it’s up to them to do it. Not easy to predict how they will handle their opportunities.
 

Wozzy

In the Starting Line-Up
PFF has contracts with all 32 NFL teams.
PFF provides NFL teams with personnel groupings, how many TE’s or CB’s an opponent had on the field in a series. Teams used to hire assistants to do that themselves, PFF saves them money.

I doubt a single pro team gives a rat’s azz how some analytics nerd who has no clue how to play football or knows what assignment a player had on a given play grades a player.

Listen to Mike Lombardi’s story of when he was with the Raiders or Browns, I can’t recall exactly who. But PFF was new and offering their services to NFL teams, he said they brought the lead guy in charge of player grades in to describe the service they were offering.

Instead of simply listening to his pitch Mike said they went off script and sat the guy in front of a TV and let some film run. He said the guy had zero actual football knowledge about leverage, pad level, assignments… nothing. Needless to say they used PFF to tell them which personnel groupings were on the field because it was cheaper than employing an army of assistants… but PFF player grades are used toilet paper.
 
Last edited:

Wozzy

In the Starting Line-Up
and the really smart ones wait and see.

so much depends on how that person responds to a totally new environment and experience. BB gives all his players the opportunity to show what they do with it. Then it’s up to them to do it. Not easy to predict how they will handle their opportunities.
A third of the NFL is made up of UDFA’s, fans put too much stock in draft position or “value.” There’s talent to be found everywhere.
 

Kasmir

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
PFF provides NFL teams with personnel groupings, how many TE’s or CB’s an opponent had on the field in a series. Teams used to hire assistants to do that themselves, PFF saves them money.

I doubt a single pro team gives a rat’s azz how some analytics nerd who has no clue how to play football or knows what assignment a player had on a given play grades a player.

Listen to Mike Lombardi’s story of when he was with the Raiders or Browns, I can’t recall exactly who. But PFF was new and offering their services to NFL teams, he said they brought the lead guy in charge of player grades in to describe the service they were offering.

Instead of simply listening to his pitch Mike said they went off script and sat the guy in from of a TV and let some film run. He said the guy had zero actual football knowledge about leverage, pad level, assignments… nothing. Needless to say they used PFF to tell them which personnel groupings were on the field because it was cheaper than employing an army of assistants… but PFF player grades are used toilet paper.
Your info might be outdated. After Collingsworth bought them they reputedly started hiring professional scouts to do their ratings. No idea what the quality of their ratings are now, but they are widely quoted by the media and might possibly be now more reliable than fans first impressions.
 

Wozzy

In the Starting Line-Up
Your info might be outdated. After Collingsworth bought them they reputedly started hiring professional scouts to do their ratings. No idea what the quality of their ratings are now, but they are widely quoted by the media and might possibly be now more reliable than the what fans think.
Pro teams scout and rate their own players, it’s their job to know. I doubt they outsource that and an outsider isn’t necessarily going to know player assignments, even experienced ones.

PFF grades are silly, they just graded the head coaches… kliff kingsbury was the third or fourth best head coach according to them… lol. What has he won? Guys like Tomlin have rings and a career winning percentage. Those grades are worthless.
 

Kasmir

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
Pro teams scout and rate their own players, it’s their job to know. I doubt they outsource that and an outsider isn’t necessarily going to know player assignments, even experienced ones.

PFF grades are silly, they just graded the head coaches… kliff kingsbury was the third or fourth best head coach according to them… lol. What has he won? Guys like Tomlin have rings and a career winning percentage. Those grades are worthless.
I'm certainly not able to defend PFF's business as I don't know much about it other than hearing that they have lots of NFL, NCAA and media clients. So they must be doing something right, your highly negative opinion aside.
 

Ian

Administrator
ADMINISTRATOR
A bunch of Mac's interceptions, I've noticed, are based on bad mechanics. He's not stepping into his throws with his left foot - either because it's the way he's used to doing things at Alabama OR because of heavy pocket pressure up the middle. I don't know if Andrews lost a step or two last year.
He was up until some point where I think he took a shot, and then he stopped being as gutsy stepping into it. I think he was banged up in the second half, which if that was indeed the case, probably played a factor in that.
 

MAC10

Hall of Fame Poster
2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
He was up until some point where I think he took a shot, and then he stopped being as gutsy stepping into it. I think he was banged up in the second half, which if that was indeed the case, probably played a factor in that.

I think he was hurt in the Dallas game when he got leveled by Randy Gregory but who knows...

 

LFGMac10

In the Starting Line-Up
2021 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
He was up until some point where I think he took a shot, and then he stopped being as gutsy stepping into it. I think he was banged up in the second half, which if that was indeed the case, probably played a factor in that.
That was my feeling, that he was hurt and was trying not to get hit as much. Especially since the Zebras weren't protecting him at all. Remember the gam they blew the play dead and the edge guy ran right at him and took a shot like 3 or 4 seconds after the whistle and the Zebras didn't call a penalty at all...Mac sure didn't get preferential treatment last year.
 

MAC10

Hall of Fame Poster
2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
David Andrews was asked about Jones adding some muscle. The center said he hadn’t seen the photo yet, but was unsurprised that Jones has been diligent in the weight room. "The kid’s a hard worker,” Andrews said. “He works his butt off, day in and day out. Sometimes I try to get him to take a deep breath. But that’s what you want out of your quarterback. He works really hard. He’s a tough kid. It’s been fun for me the last year, year and a half, to get to know him. I’ve got a lot of respect for how he does things and how he carries himself.”

Some high praise coming from a guy who has worked with Brady...
 


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