UNDISPUTED: James Harrison on Brady and Belichick

[bbobbo]

 

[fnordcircle]

Honestly kind of meaningless coming from an all-time Patriot great like Harrison. Of course he's going to toe the line, he's synonymous with the Patriot Way and everyone knows it.

 

[Joey007]

“Mike Tomlin needs to be a bit more disciplined.”

Ya think?

 

[Kontradiction]

Nice to hear on both of them. This is certainly a far cry from where he was about five years ago on the organization. I guess things change when you're actually in the building and have an actual boss instead of a clown like Tomlin.

 

[jah]

I imagine there's a few coaches who, like BB, are hard on every player (even the stars) but aren't as successful. Hasn't this been presented as a negative about O'Brien? Maybe just the BB coaching tree in general, since his disciples haven't exactly owned the league since leaving here.

I think the discipline could be a real part of the bigger picture (and certainly integral to BB's concept of what a coach should be) but I gotta say we might be overthinking here. He's the GOAT because he's just an absolute football savant and holds more knowledge of the game than anyone else who ever lived. Not because he's strict. Probably wasn't what Harrison meant though.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

I imagine there's a few coaches who, like BB, are hard on every player (even the stars) but aren't as successful. Hasn't this been presented as a negative about O'Brien? Maybe just the BB coaching tree in general, since his disciples haven't exactly owned the league since leaving here.

I think the discipline could be a real part of the bigger picture (and certainly integral to BB's concept of what a coach should be) but I gotta say we might be overthinking here. He's the GOAT because he's just an absolute football savant and holds more knowledge of the game than anyone else who ever lived. Not because he's strict. Probably wasn't what Harrison meant though.

I think there's a big difference between being strict, and ensuring that everyone shares the same understanding, the same vision, the same goal. Belichick isn't that far ahead of everyone else in terms of Xs and Os, even though I do believe that he's the best, but I think what sets him apart is that he's good at teaching people how to understand their roles and how they relate to the larger organism -- as though the team is a living, breathing thing that needs to share a hive mind. He's detail-oriented about situational football, and his best teams haven't always been the most talented, but the most disciplined (I'd almost say "obedient," in the sense of a soldier taking orders from a commanding officer, but I'm not sure everyone would appreciate that comparison).

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

I imagine there's a few coaches who, like BB, are hard on every player (even the stars) but aren't as successful. Hasn't this been presented as a negative about O'Brien? Maybe just the BB coaching tree in general, since his disciples haven't exactly owned the league since leaving here.

I think the discipline could be a real part of the bigger picture (and certainly integral to BB's concept of what a coach should be) but I gotta say we might be overthinking here. He's the GOAT because he's just an absolute football savant and holds more knowledge of the game than anyone else who ever lived. Not because he's strict. Probably wasn't what Harrison meant though.

Lombardi was merciless.

But he created that culture in their locker room, and it got everybody's attention but it also brought all those players together. Ultimately, like with Auerbach and the Celtics, they understood and appreciated him.

Yeah, it's different playing here, under Belichick. Apparently, he and Welker somehow rubbed each other the wrong way. But it works for most guys. BTW, Wes still played his butt off here.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Of course, there's the obligatory cheating accusations.

Interesting, I don't recall the '83 Raiders, '85 Bears or '00 Ravens being accused of cheating...

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

....I'd almost say "obedient," in the sense of a soldier taking orders from a commanding officer, but I'm not sure everyone would appreciate that comparison...

It's a big part of it.

But you can be very demanding of your players while you aren't really teaching the right things, and so it doesn't work.

You can also be very demanding of your players, teaching the right things, but you don't have the right players, and so it doesn't work, since they don't "buy in".

Bill has it all. He finds coachable talented players for roles he thinks are important, demands that those players learn how to maximize their usefulness, and he's also spot on with how those lessons to be learned affect wins vs. losses.

In other words he's the perfect storm of player evaluation, X-and-O knowledge, and commanding the necessary discipline, sacrifice, and focus. Lose any of the three and none of it works very well.

Damn we're lucky

 

[PatsWSB47]

Of course, there's the obligatory cheating accusations.

Interesting, I don't recall the '83 Raiders, '85 Bears or '00 Ravens being accused of cheating...

Interesting? nah the Patriots are the only team that's ever been accused of cheating. How else do you expalin any of their wins?

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

...I don't recall the '83 Raiders, '85 Bears or '00 Ravens being accused of cheating...

certainly the Raiders would never have done anything to gain an unfair advantage!

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Interesting? nah the Patriots are the only team that's ever been accused of cheating. How else do you expalin any of their wins?

December 29, 1974

AFC Championship: Pittsburgh Steelers 24, Oakland Raiders 13


After trailing 10–3 at the end of the third quarter, the Steelers scored three touchdowns in the final period to earn their first championship appearance in team history.

The first half was controlled by both defenses. Oakland got a big opportunity in the first quarter when they recovered a muffed punt by Lynn Swann on the Steelers 41-yard line, but Mel Blount's deflection of a 3rd down pass by Ken Stabler forced them to settle for a 40-yard field goal from George Blanda. Meanwhile, the Steelers managed to get close to the Oakland end zone twice, but each time they had to settle for Roy Gerela field goal attempts. He missed his first one from 20 yards in the first quarter, but kicked a 23-yard field goal in the second to tie the game at 3 going into halftime.

Steelers linebacker Jack Lambert blocked a Blanda field goal in the third quarter, however, the Raiders eventually took a 10-3 lead with Ken Stabler's 38-yard touchdown pass to Cliff Branch. But Pittsburgh tied the game again six seconds into the fourth quarter with Franco Harris' 8-yard touchdown run at the end of a 61-yard drive. Then linebacker Jack Ham intercepted a pass from Stabler (his second interception of the day) and returned it to the Raiders' 9-yard line, setting up Bradshaw's 6-yard touchdown pass to Swann. Oakland responded with a drive to the Steelers 7-yard line, featuring a 45-yard reception by Fred Biletnikoff, but on 3rd down, a blitz by defensive back Mike Wagner forced Stabler to throw the ball away, and the team to setting for a 24-yard Blanda field goal, and the Steelers still led, 17–13.

Oakland managed to get the ball back for a chance to drive for a go-ahead touchdown, but J. T. Thomas made a clutch interception and returned the ball 37 yards to the Raiders 24. Harris then scored on a 21-yard rushing touchdown to put the game away.

Afterward, Raiders coach John Madden, the Oakland players, and local Bay area and national media all made allegations of cheating by coach Chuck Noll and the rest of the Steelers, and questioned the legitimacy of the outcome. These complaints continued over the next several seasons which included multiple Steelers titles, until 1980 when league commissioner Pete Rozelle punished coach Noll and the team with the maximum financial penalties allowable, and seized their first round draft pick for 1981, as discipline for some Steelers employees being in an "unauthorized location" for the one half of a game at Memorial Stadium in Baltimore on September 14. Team owner Rooney capitulated entirely, and local Pittsburgh media accepted the permanent label of the Steelers as cheaters, and all the franchise's accomplishments in history, even going back to 1933, are considered tainted and the franchise are treated as "repeat offenders", and are called cheaters to this day.

Art Rooney then broke down in tears, apologizing to his fellow owners and opponents' coaches at the league meeting on April 1, 1981, for "dishonoring the league and the game" and for the shame his franchise brought upon them.

Rooney then accepted a total makeover of the Steelers' franchise's logo and uniforms, initiated by Al Davis, and beginning in the 1982 season the team had blue uniforms with silver trim (the "hot" color of the Eighties), and wore virtually the same replacement logo on their helmets that caused nausea and diarrhea in every single Steeler fan who saw its image at halftime of a game at Three Rivers Stadium on November 2, 1970.

 

[TheRainMaker]

I was hoping he went the Bradshaw route and say “Tomlin does nothing.”

 

[1960Pats]

certainly the Raiders would never have done anything to gain an unfair advantage!

The Raiders' motto, one that former Raider George Atkinson proudly proclaimed as theirs, is "if you ain't cheatin' you ain't tryin'.

It's funny how a team like the Raiders, with such a rough and tough image of themselves, cry like spoiled brat children whenever things go against them.

 

[TB_Helmet]

That's pretty cool given how much absolute hatred the Harrison had for the Patriots during his Steelers days.

 

[Modest]

December 29, 1974

AFC Championship: Pittsburgh Steelers 24, Oakland Raiders 13


After trailing 10–3 at the end of the third quarter, the Steelers scored three touchdowns in the final period to earn their first championship appearance in team history.

The first half was controlled by both defenses. Oakland got a big opportunity in the first quarter when they recovered a muffed punt by Lynn Swann on the Steelers 41-yard line, but Mel Blount's deflection of a 3rd down pass by Ken Stabler forced them to settle for a 40-yard field goal from George Blanda. Meanwhile, the Steelers managed to get close to the Oakland end zone twice, but each time they had to settle for Roy Gerela field goal attempts. He missed his first one from 20 yards in the first quarter, but kicked a 23-yard field goal in the second to tie the game at 3 going into halftime.

Steelers linebacker Jack Lambert blocked a Blanda field goal in the third quarter, however, the Raiders eventually took a 10-3 lead with Ken Stabler's 38-yard touchdown pass to Cliff Branch. But Pittsburgh tied the game again six seconds into the fourth quarter with Franco Harris' 8-yard touchdown run at the end of a 61-yard drive. Then linebacker Jack Ham intercepted a pass from Stabler (his second interception of the day) and returned it to the Raiders' 9-yard line, setting up Bradshaw's 6-yard touchdown pass to Swann. Oakland responded with a drive to the Steelers 7-yard line, featuring a 45-yard reception by Fred Biletnikoff, but on 3rd down, a blitz by defensive back Mike Wagner forced Stabler to throw the ball away, and the team to setting for a 24-yard Blanda field goal, and the Steelers still led, 17–13.

Oakland managed to get the ball back for a chance to drive for a go-ahead touchdown, but J. T. Thomas made a clutch interception and returned the ball 37 yards to the Raiders 24. Harris then scored on a 21-yard rushing touchdown to put the game away.

Afterward, Raiders coach John Madden, the Oakland players, and local Bay area and national media all made allegations of cheating by coach Chuck Noll and the rest of the Steelers, and questioned the legitimacy of the outcome. These complaints continued over the next several seasons which included multiple Steelers titles, until 1980 when league commissioner Pete Rozelle punished coach Noll and the team with the maximum financial penalties allowable, and seized their first round draft pick for 1981, as discipline for some Steelers employees being in an "unauthorized location" for the one half of a game at Memorial Stadium in Baltimore on September 14. Team owner Rooney capitulated entirely, and local Pittsburgh media accepted the permanent label of the Steelers as cheaters, and all the franchise's accomplishments in history, even going back to 1933, are considered tainted and the franchise are treated as "repeat offenders", and are called cheaters to this day.

Art Rooney then broke down in tears, apologizing to his fellow owners and opponents' coaches at the league meeting on April 1, 1981, for "dishonoring the league and the game" and for the shame his franchise brought upon them.

Rooney then accepted a total makeover of the Steelers' franchise's logo and uniforms, initiated by Al Davis, and beginning in the 1982 season the team had blue uniforms with silver trim (the "hot" color of the Eighties), and wore virtually the same replacement logo on their helmets that caused nausea and diarrhea in every single Steeler fan who saw its image at halftime of a game at Three Rivers Stadium on November 2, 1970.

You have a link to this or in some form of print form? Would love to use it on **** talking Steelers fans.

 

[Bcc66duece]

Of course, there's the obligatory cheating accusations.

Interesting, I don't recall the '83 Raiders, '85 Bears or '00 Ravens being accused of cheating...

I really don't even think he was being serious about that. He said it in a joking manner and went on to add that the Patriots picked up 86% of their blitzes which kind of seems like he is implying they were out coached bigtime in that game.

 

[supafly]

You have a link to this or in some form of print form? Would love to use it on **** talking Steelers fans.

Don’t, because it’s not true. At all.

@Actual Pats Fan should know better than to spread stuff like this.

He had me for a brief moment, up until the ridiculous suggestion that Raiders owner Al Davis had chosen a “replacement uniform and logo” that the Steelers wore as some type of shaming punishment. C’mon, now.

Also, there was no lost draft pick, particularly a first rounder, as we were the only team to ever lose a pick that high. The Steelers did lose a 3rd rounder once in 2001 for circumventing the ‘98 salary cap, but that’s the only pick they’ve ever lost.

 

[Tony2046]

Don’t, because it’s not true. At all.

@Actual Pats Fan should know better than to spread stuff like this.

He had me for a brief moment, up until the ridiculous suggestion that Raiders owner Al Davis had chosen a “replacement uniform and logo” that the Steelers wore as some type of shaming punishment. C’mon, now.

Also, there was no lost draft pick, particularly a first rounder, as we were the only team to ever lose a pick that high. The Steelers did lose a 3rd rounder once in 2001 for circumventing the ‘98 salary cap, but that’s the only pick they’ve ever lost.

Actually what he was doing was quite brilliant imo. He was spoofing all the past shenanigans and coupled them with the Pats punishments of which, of course, he included the changing of the uniforms. hahaha

 

[supafly]

Actually what he was doing was quite brilliant imo. He was spoofing all the past shenanigans and coupled them with the Pats punishments of which, of course, he included the changing of the uniforms. hahaha

Oh, I recognized some serious BS in there, but didn’t realize that it was an intentional spoof. Well played, @Actual Pats Fan.