The "Pats shouldve run the ball on the colts" theory

[SVN]

I know a lot has been said about this and mcdaniels and BB have been questioned and probably rightfully so but just wanted to throw it out there since the calm of the last 2 days.
The colts run D is bad but is the pass defense the best ever in the NFL ?
If brady had made the right throws or if the INT's/tipped or not didnt happen would we have still questioned the game plan ?
I guess iam saying , throwing may have not been a good idea maybe but it wasnt that dangerous idea before the game .Everyone was saying that dungy has to be worried after the minnesota game that the pats can throw the ball too but now everyone is questioning why they did as if andrew walters was playing QB for the pats...
Either the minn game was an aberration or this one was..i dont know how much better is colts pass D compared to minn.

Bottom line it worked in minnesota and it didnt work here...
thoughts ?

 

[Murphys95]

Good point. It's easy to gripe about a gameplan after a game. Take away 5 turnovers and 8 penalties, and the outcome would have been different. I don't like to argue game plans, but if I were to do so, the defense's inability to stop the Colts on 3rd down played a bigger role than New England's rushing offense.

It was just one of those nights - time to retool and move on. Bring on the Jets.

 

[Armen Da Pats Fan]

Good point. It's easy to gripe about a gameplan after a game. Take away 5 turnovers and 8 penalties, and the outcome would have been different. I don't like to argue game plans, but if I were to do so, the defense's inability to stop the Colts on 3rd down played a bigger role than New England's rushing offense.

It was just one of those nights - time to retool and move on. Bring on the Jets.

Normally, I would agree with you, but the gameplan was so obvious here that the Pats really screwed up not running on the Colts.

Before the game I heard Cris Collinsworth say, "Last week the Patriots threw the ball 70% of the time; this week they will run it 70% of the time" or something to that effect.

EVERYBODY except Josh McDaniels & Bill Belichick saw what had to be done.

We gained 97 yards in the first half and in the second half the Colts were playing with a rookie at ILB!

I am not one to b!tch about coaches. I think the blame always belongs on the players with regard to execution, btu this is one of those rare times where the coachign staff cost us a very important game.

Can I deal with it and move on? Of course, in fact, I already have...

But when we're in the Hoosier Dome in January, we'll be wishing they ran it more in November!

ADPF

 

[Armen Da Pats Fan]

Good point. It's easy to gripe about a gameplan after a game. Take away 5 turnovers and 8 penalties, and the outcome would have been different. I don't like to argue game plans, but if I were to do so, the defense's inability to stop the Colts on 3rd down played a bigger role than New England's rushing offense.

It was just one of those nights - time to retool and move on. Bring on the Jets.

Normally, I would agree with you, but the gameplan was so obvious here that the Pats really screwed up not running on the Colts.

Before the game I heard Cris Collinsworth say, "Last week the Patriots threw the ball 70% of the time; this week they will run it 70% of the time" or something to that effect.

EVERYBODY except Josh McDaniels & Bill Belichick saw what had to be done.

We gained 97 yards in the first half and in the second half the Colts were playing with a rookie at ILB!

I am not one to b!tch about coaches. I think the blame usually belongs on the players with regard to execution, but clearly this is one of those very rare times where the coaching staff cost us a very important game.

Can I deal with it and move on?

Of course, in fact, I already have...

But when we're in the Hoosier Dome in January, we'll be wishing they ran it more in November!

ADPF

 

[BruschiOnTap]

I really like the original argument in this thread, especially considering that those INTs were hardly Brady's fault. However, it was clear after the first quarter that running the ball was the best way to beat the Colts. In fact, it always is. You HAVE to keep that defense off of the field. Our running game was dominating and as it was mentioned, they had a rook playing at ILB. Meanwhile, I recall Brady throwing on quick drops and just seeming rushed most of the game. They should have kept moving the ball on the ground, wearing out that defense and then gone with play-action passes and plenty more running in the second half. It's old school and predictable, but Indy showed they couldn't stop it. Jax totally exploited this weakness and almost won.

HOWEVER, we were only a TD behind or less the entire game so the gameplan wasn't *too* flawed...

Lastly, I gotta give props to Peyton (even though I can't stand the hype around him) because he made some AMAZING throws off of his back foot and at least one whilst running to his left. He lived up to the hype on Sunday night. Now please just choke in the playoffs again so I can continue feeling justified that Brady is better!

 

[broadwayjoe]

After watching quite a few Patriots and Colts games this one reminded me of the first Sugar Ray Leonard against Roberto Duran fight where Leonard tried to beat Duran at his own game and lost. So now that we have tried to beat them at thier own game and came up short hopefully if they meet again the Pats will give them a heavy dose of Dillon,Maroney,Faulk and Pass and limit the number of times the Colts offense is on the field like in past games. I was proud of the way the defense played in the second half also considering the turnovers that kept them going back on the field to stop the Colts offense.
I do have to admit thats the best I have seen Manning play against us in terms of getting away from the rush and throwing off his back foot and that pass going to the left and throwing back right was nice. Now its time to bring on those J-E-T-S.

 

[SVN]

iam never a big fan of "keep the other offense in the sidelines" theory...that to me is a -ve mindset.When weis was here , he was always +ve and thats how it should be.Offense should score early and close the game out using the run exclusively.
i bet if we had 3 picks against Minn and lost ..people would have screamed
"Even if minn had a good run defense,we have 2 good backs and still we run only 15 times ?"

there is always a fallout when something doesnt work ..but taking the ball out of brady's hands to win the game is better gameplan ? hard to say that...
they just didnt complete the passes ..thats all...

that being said , i wouldver rather run the ball instead of those stupid attempted screens and reverses.

 

[ChockBlkr]

The one thing that has always given me hope in all close games we were down in since the 2nd Jets game in 2001 is our half time adjustments. The coaches most times seemed to be able to take the faults of the first half and change them into victory in the 2nd. I haven't seen that as much lately. It does seem as if the offense was determined Sunday night to pass the football no matter what the results, and the results weren't good.

 

[cstjohn17]

I agree, it seems like the defense makes adjustments as the game progresses but the offense is slow to adjust or moves too quickly from one scheme to another. There is a learning curve with all the new players but back to the original point, I felt that that a power running game with some over the top play-action was the best way to score points. Points are what is important, not time of possession. I have heard defensive players say that when a team is running the ball it is completely demoralizing. And offensive linemen love the running game, this game was a chance for the Patriots to establish more of an identity as an offensive unit. Line up 2 TE and go at it, ala Pittsburgh, wear the undersized Colts down and when Sanders sneaks up take some shots over the top to CJ (worst case get a pass interference penalty). When the Pats started running gimmick plays and using short passes it energized the Colts D, if we would have kept running hard you would have seen the Pats offense get some serious mojo going and in the 4th quarter they would have been able to run or play action pass at will.

The one thing that has always given me hope in all close games we were down in since the 2nd Jets game in 2001 is our half time adjustments. The coaches most times seemed to be able to take the faults of the first half and change them into victory in the 2nd. I haven't seen that as much lately. It does seem as if the offense was determined Sunday night to pass the football no matter what the results, and the results weren't good.

 

[PromisedLand]

First of all, the Colts defense was #30 against the run without Bob Sanders. He was back Sunday and I think he made a huge difference in the run defense. Of course we still averaged pretty good yards against them on the ground, BUT...

IMHO the thing that was wrong with our offensive game plan was not that we didn't run the ball more, but that we didn't take advantage of Indy's small quick defense and Sander's aggressiveness in running into the box to stuff the run. The way to do that is to run play action a lot. I didn't see it at all.

 

[SVN]

IMHO the thing that was wrong with our offensive game plan was not that we didn't run the ball more, but that we didn't take advantage of Indy's small quick defense and Sander's aggressiveness in running into the box to stuff the run. The way to do that is to run play action a lot. I didn't see it at all.

because mcdaniels likes screens and the reverses a lot...
i bet we see a couple of reverses this weekend again against the jets...

 

[shakadave]

I'm tired of the group-speak that the Pats should've run more. We were not power-running down the Colts' throats, even in the first half. Had some success? Yeah. Dominated with our running game? That wasn't the game I saw. We came out running in the 3rd quarter, fumbled, got stuffed and stuffed again, and then didn't run much for awhile. We were not running at will, could not run at will.

Sanders was huge, and is huge. I thought all along that if he was out, we'd win, and if he was in, we'd lose. That's about how it went.

I'm also amazed that we could stink it up that bad --- 5 turnovers --- and play the Colts to a tie over the last 50 minutes of the game.

 

[Seneschal2]

Good point. It's easy to gripe about a gameplan after a game. Take away 5 turnovers and 8 penalties, and the outcome would have been different.

The real question is, why would any fan ignore those stats and seriously question the play calling and gameplan? Doesn't it make more sense to place the burden of responsibility on the players to properly execute said gameplan? So Maroney wasn't allowed to run wild -- BIG DEAL. Try catching the ball, not throwing into tight coverage, committing bonehead penalties, and learn how to tackle before placing blame on the coaches.

I don't like to argue game plans, but if I were to do so, the defense's inability to stop the Colts on 3rd down played a bigger role than New England's rushing offense.

Lucky you don't argue gameplans. The league it seems has the inability to stop them on 3rd downs. It's a precision passing game with that QB and those wideouts. Remember...hands off of them for a reason -- or they will fail. And we don't want that now do we?

It was just one of those nights - time to retool and move on. Bring on the Jets.

Not worried...had some stinkers in our SB seasons...

 

[Krugman]

CchBlkr,(sorry if I spelled that wrong) I agree with that,dont see those adjustments this team was famous for.Lets see what the remainder of the season brings.

 

[mgteich]

Yes, the pats could have won, without the terrible game plan we operated under. Personally, I don't think the same game plan will have much of a chance later in the season when the colts might have a healthy WR to put in the slot instead of a TE, and when they might have someone other than a rookie OLB to play MLB. Obviously, the Colts showed that they might have scored 30 points against us, if their mediocre kicker hadn't missed two. I don't think the answer to Manning is for Brady to try to pass more times and more effectively than Manning. The answer is to score lots of points with a running game as the base. As we showed last week, balance is totally unnecessary. We might have run 70% of the time and won easily.

The real question is, why would any fan ignore those stats and seriously question the play calling and gameplan? Doesn't it make more sense to place the burden of responsibility on the players to properly execute said gameplan? So Maroney wasn't allowed to run wild -- BIG DEAL. Try catching the ball, not throwing into tight coverage, committing bonehead penalties, and learn how to tackle before placing blame on the coaches.



Lucky you don't argue gameplans. The league it seems has the inability to stop them on 3rd downs. It's a precision passing game with that QB and those wideouts. Remember...hands off of them for a reason -- or they will fail. And we don't want that now do we?


Not worried...had some stinkers in our SB seasons...