The Emphasis on Special Teams

[cmasspatsfan]

Do we re-sign McClellin or Humber now that Bolden is back in the mix?

Maybe one of them, which ever compliments Bolden the best.

 

[patfanken]

Nobody is spending 18M/yr on guys that JUST play special teams. Even Giardi who made the number up said as much. Part of his calculus were players like Bolden or Brooks who not only have ST value.

And while you think the value has decreased I would argue that BB disagrees with that assessment. You are making it out to be a fact when it is just an opinion. We blocked a couple of punts this year, CP had a return for a TD, pressure from the FG defense resulted in missed FGs. There are still enough edges to be had on ST.

Hell, I'd almost argue that if teams start to try to save money on ST it would be the perfect time to invest even more into it and create an even bigger skillgap.

That response would be fine IF those FG's were blocked by special teams only players, but they were blocked by STARTERS. CP was ANYTHING but a special teams only player. ( edit: though I just recalled maybe one WAS blocked by a ST'er, but I'm not sure. But the point remains the same)

Now I know guys like Boldin go to offensive or defensive meetings and I'd have no problem with him carrying the ball if there were a massive injury situation at RB, like we had last year. But the fact is Bill didn't bring him back to run the ball. In ANY scenario Boldin would be the LAST option at RB.

I would suggest that someone making a lot less than Brandon but likely being a better athlete and faster, could be coached up to do what he does. Its not like he's a gunner (I'd pay a premium for great gunners like Slate, because punt coverage actually still matters....for now).

BTW- time will tell just how many of these veteran highly paid (relatively) ST's only guys are going to make the final roster. We are going to have a LOT of younger, cheaper players on the 90 man roster competing for these jobs. It could very well make this discussion moot.

 

[luuked]

That response would be fine IF those FG's were blocked by special teams only players, but they were blocked by STARTERS. CP was ANYTHING but a special teams only player. ( edit: though I just recalled maybe one WAS blocked by a ST'er, but I'm not sure. But the point remains the same)

Except your point was that spending 18M on ST is too much. As I said before the only way you can come up with that number is if you add in every player like Brooks or Bolden who have multiple roles. Which is what Giardi did and how that number came to be.

Also your point was that ST are becoming less and less important. Which I completely disagree with which is why I mentioned all the plays they made last year that significantly impacted games.

Now I know guys like Boldin go to offensive or defensive meetings and I'd have no problem with him carrying the ball if there were a massive injury situation at RB, like we had last year. But the fact is Bill didn't bring him back to run the ball. In ANY scenario Boldin would be the LAST option at RB.

I would suggest that someone making a lot less than Brandon but likely being a better athlete and faster, could be coached up to do what he does. Its not like he's a gunner (I'd pay a premium for great gunners like Slate, because punt coverage actually still matters....for now).

Bolden is a core ST player. He is at least as valuable as a gunner because he plays on all teams AND provides depth.

And suggesting that you can find someone who is a better athlete and faster and cheaper is exactly what put us into that problematic ST situation last year early in the season. It took the signing of Humber and McClellin to stabilize the unit and put it back into the elite category. Remember all those returns they kept allowing ? But at least we didnt have to pay for Bolden.

If it would be so easy to find replacements that are more athletic, can do more and cheaper for players like King, Bolden or Ebner then BB would be doing this. He is not keeping them around at relatively big contracts out of sentimental reasons. He would cut their ass to save money the first moment he gets a chance in exchange for one of those prospects you are talking about.

 

[patfanken]

Except your point was that spending 18M on ST is too much. As I said before the only way you can come up with that number is if you add in every player like Brooks or Bolden who have multiple roles. Which is what Giardi did and how that number came to be.

Also your point was that ST are becoming less and less important. Which I completely disagree with which is why I mentioned all the plays they made last year that significantly impacted games.



Bolden is a core ST player. He is at least as valuable as a gunner because he plays on all teams AND provides depth.

And suggesting that you can find someone who is a better athlete and faster and cheaper is exactly what put us into that problematic ST situation last year early in the season. It took the signing of Humber and McClellin to stabilize the unit and put it back into the elite category. Remember all those returns they kept allowing ? But at least we didnt have to pay for Bolden.

If it would be so easy to find replacements that are more athletic, can do more and cheaper for players like King, Bolden or Ebner then BB would be doing this. He is not keeping them around at relatively big contracts out of sentimental reasons. He would cut their ass to save money the first moment he gets a chance in exchange for one of those prospects you are talking about.

The successful signings of Humber and McClellin only go to show how easy, fast and INEXPENSIVELY you can upgrade your ST's. Hopefully THIS season they will get it right to start.

But let me as a quick question L, Do you agree that all the rules changes affecting ST's the past decade have weakened the importance they play in the game, and severely limit what coaches can do within the context of the game now???

And would you be at all surprised if come September a number of the vets you mention in your post don't make the final 53?

 

[luuked]

The successful signings of Humber and McClellin only go to show how easy, fast and INEXPENSIVELY you can upgrade your ST's. Hopefully THIS season they will get it right to start.

And what happens if you lose another 1-2 of your core group before those bail outs become available ? Hell what if no Humber or McClellin are available ? You cant bank to get lucky every year.

But let me as a quick question L, Do you agree that all the rules changes affecting ST's the past decade have weakened the importance they play in the game, and severely limit what coaches can do within the context of the game now???

I think the only play that really was affected much is the on side kick. As much as the league tried to remove certain aspects during the kickoff (wedges ect.) I dont think anything substantial happened to ignore ST.

In fact I would almost argue the opposite. It is more important than ever before to have strong ST because if you start saving money and playing lesser players in as blockers there is a good chance your opponent will take advantage of it.

Just look at the game against the Bears how them trying to get by with weak ST players screwed them royally. If they had more actual dedicated ST players on the field there is no way we would have been able to see that mismatch and use it with Hightower and KVN.

ST matter a lot. I am surprised we have to have this conversation honestly.