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Discussion in 'The PatsFans.com Pub' started by PatsFanInVa, Sep 7, 2006.

  1. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    CPF

    Last word granted, last swipes accepted. The "ambiguous Christians" who are my friends remain randomly defamed; the quite serious matter of medieval disputations -- which, in fact, is what you'd most like -- shall remain randomly mocked. Please accept my apologies on behalf of myself and my coreligionists, for not killing witches and adulterers, as commanded by scripture, not worshipping in a Temple that has not stood for 2,000 years, and -- most importantly -- for not converting to the Christian religion. We are still of the unfortunate opinion that we are Jews, practicing Judaism, regardless of what your pastor tells you, to satisfy his and your need for replacement theology.

    I do understand that it is vital to Christians to study the Jewish scriptures, as well as the purely Christian documents of the "new testament;" this does not in any way surprise me. What continually amazes me is the unmitigated gall and rudeness of Christians seeking to explain the Jewish scriptures to Jews. It turns out we study them ourselves, you see.

    As to fear: there is a difference between fear and stupidity. I have no fear of a debate; rather, I refuse to grant you standing to debate my faith with me; you quite simply have none. You do, however, have an ulterior motive, as you have demonstrated in previous posts. So rather than engaging you so you can stump obnoxiously on the subject either of your own beliefs, or mine, I prefer not to grant you some sort of provisional standing you have not earned, on the subject of my faith; and I prefer not to mop the floor with you on the subject of your own. Either way, you get the soapbox you want, and I prefer not to give it to you.

    I hope this has been helpful in clearing up some of your persistent misconceptions.

    Goodbye,

    PFnV
     
  2. 3 to be 4

    3 to be 4 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Just curious, if you are saying Christians shoulnt tell Jews how to be Jews, why was was ok for you to tell me i wasnt a Jew, since according to my interpretation of the Old Testament, the Jewish Carpenter from Nazareth is my Jewish King? Where does Judaism say not to believe in the Messiah? I just believe the Messiah was Jesus. You may not agree. 95% of Jews may not agree. But many Jews around the world do agree and are coming to the conclusion this is the truth.

    btw, im not stalking you either, just asking a question about faith. And that comment about witches and adulterers? I know you are going to blow this up into a Anti-Semitic rant, but that would be like me pointing out the actions of the Jewish leaders, NOT JEWS IN GENERAL, but the Jewish leaders, who in conjunction with the Romans, had Jesus killed. Any group can have the skeletons in their closet dug up. the difference is Christians are held to a higher standard because its a great way to tear them down in an arguement, and anything Jewish people have ever done is protected by PC.

    lets stop with this hateful dredging up of the crusades, medieval times, the Salem witchcraft trials, and stuff that has nothing to do with Jesus Christ, CPF, or me. Its a common debating tactic of people positioned on the exteme to use examples from the extreme on the other side. Example: conservatives like Sean Hannity bringing on his show the most whacko lefties he can find. or secularists pointed out "the crusades" as an example of what happens when you believe in Christ.

    You are an intelligent and a caring person, and we dont need to go down that road. And this is not just directed at you. its directed at you, me, CPF, the entire board.

    lets talk about scripture, lets talk about God. without hurling mud bombs.
     
  3. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    1. Once again, I have never told you you are not a Jew. The Jewish religious consensus, as I've told you before, is "once a Jew, always a Jew." Therefore, I've never told you you're not a Jew. I have said you are a Jewish apostate to Christianity. I do wonder why you continue to slander me by repeating this lie -- is it some belief in the "Big Lie" theory of propaganda (repeat the lie and make it big enough, and they'll believe you,) or is it just a bulletproof belief that someone MUST be saying a thing, confused for that individual actually saying it? This must be the third or fourth time I've corrected you on this.

    2. Far more than 95% of Jews do not agree with the Christian hypothesis.

    3. "Thou Shalt Not Suffer a Witch to Live." Leviticus, I believe. Read the post for the sense of it first, perhaps, and then carefully read back over sentence by sentence. It should not be this hard. This topic is tangentially related to medieval witch-hunts, but that is not the import of the comment.

    4. It was indeed important for the first and second century Christians to paint the Jews as "Christkillers," and to paint sympathetic pictures of Roman authorities, such as the beleaguered and caring Pontius Pilate of the gospels (so different from the Roman proconsul of historic record.) I have no doubt you believe the gospel accounts verbatim, even if they are apparently contradictory, whereas I do not. From the viewpoint of anti-Semites, it is handy to have Jews portrayed this way in Christian scripture as well. This does not on its own determine the veracity or falseness of the gospel accounts. It is also noteworthy that the death of a single man -- while certainly not to be encouraged -- is of minute importance as compared with the events you enumerated, in terms of both the villainy of the perpetrators, and the suffering of the victims. It is only the unshared belief that Jesus' death was deicide, not homicide, that changes this equation.

    5. I understand your point of view that "Christians are held to a higher standard because its a great way to tear them down in an arguement, and anything Jewish people have ever done is protected by PC." This is quite divergent from my own viewpoint; I am, however, mindful of a history of anti-Semitism you seem less aware of. As I understand it, not only the things Jews have done, but also quite a few things they haven't, have been grounds for much more than a barb on a bulletin board. But again, we read history quite differently.

    6. No response necessary for your odd Hannity example. As I said, I was referring to the attempt to frame a debate based on Jewish adherence to the Law, as a Christian would have his ideal fantasy of a Jew adhere to said law. We all know the next steps in this tact: the Jew refuses to follow the Law, or modifies it, and therefore is not really Jewish, the way God wants him to be. Were I an Orthodox Jew, I would be accused of not worshipping in the Temple, with the priesthood present. The "only way out" is to reject Judaism's subsequent development since the time of Leviticus, and embrace Christianity as a convenient solution to a problem which is primarily one of Christian theology, posed to discredit Judaism.

    As I have stated, I have no intention or desire to engage in this polemic. Jews have sustained Judaism for thousands of years through a process of dialog and growth, both as regards Halakhah and as regards more central tenets embedded in Torah. The problem a Christian has with Judaism is not my concern, but something he has to answer for himself "about" Judaism. Again, a Christian (or an apostate to Christianity, of Jewish parentage,) have no standing in my eyes to ask the question, and have a poor track record when allowed to do so.

    7. My point here is that I am glad to talk about scripture and God, but not with those whose purpose is to defame my religion. The difficulty with proselytizing to those of other faiths, is you must make the argument that yours is better. To that end, each supposedly innocuous foray is a transparent bit of "groundwork" for argumentation I've usually seen a dozen times, if not a hundred or two. This is what I mean by "disingenuous" - the "I'm just curious" line. Your interest, and that of CPF, is to convert non-Christians to Christianity. You've told me you're required to attempt to do so, by your religion. It baffles me that you say with a straight face (now,) that you're "just curious." No, you're not. You're attempting to proselytize by acting just curious, whether in the vain hope of converting me, or in the hope of converting others who read the exchange. I'm supposed to pretend I don't know this?

    With that ulterior motive in mind, my participation in such a charade only serves to further that agenda. And that agenda seems to require the denigration of Jews and Judaism. I won't be a party to it.

    Thanks,

    PFnV
     
  4. 3 to be 4

    3 to be 4 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    PFiV: “It doesn't matter what a Jew is to you. You are a Christian. End of story.â€

    So am I wrong in concluding from that sentence that you are saying im not a Jew? So you do see how its not such a black and white thing, defining what "makes a Jew" or what "makes a Christian"? If it was so easy, we wouldnt need the terms Orthodox, Conservative, Reform, Baptist, Catholic,Episcopal etc etc etc etc. By my heritage and my blood and by the roots of my people, I am Jewish. I also believe that Jesus Christ is the Jewish Messiah. So how do you know more than 95% of Jews around the world reject Jesus? As Jesus was Jewish and His disciples were Jewish and the writers of that wonderful book The Bible were Jewish and so many Jewish people who came into contact with Jesus believed in him it doesnt seem to be such a "stretch" that a Jewish person could come to see Jesus Christ as their king. Even say, maybe 5% of the Jews of the world??

    For me theres nothing more Jewish than accepting Jesus. I like how one website I frequent puts it:

    They are the people of whom God says: "You only have I known of all the families of the earth" (Amos 3:2). To them belong the Scriptures, the divine covenants and the Messiah (Romans 9:3-5; 3:1,2; cf. Ephesians 2:11,12). Our God is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, our Scriptures (both Testaments) are the Jewish Scriptures, our Messiah is the Jewish Messiah and the spiritual blessings we enjoy were promised to them (Jeremiah 31:31-34; Ezekiel 36:25-27 cf. Ephesians 2:11-22).

    Jesus is the fulfilment of all that their prophets foretold: Christianity is Jewish.

    You should see the look of excitement I get when I tell Christians that. Real Bible-reading Christians understand their Jewish roots and embrace all things Jewish as part of themselves and of their Savior. And they understand Israel is Gods land and that He will always stand up for His people.

    Christianity doesnt discredit Judaism, it practices it.

    God requires absolute and unswerving obedience to his law (Deuteronomy 27:26 28:1, 58,59). God requires the shedding of blood for the forgiveness of sin (Leviticus 17:11; cf. 16:15-17, 27, 30). Before Jesus, the only way to Righteousness was perfect adherance to the Law. You fall short, you are condemned. Jews believe that. Christians believe that. And all I am pointing out is that the Old Testament is filled with prophesies from the Jewish writers of it, of one who would come and be that sacrifice, to forgive the sin. And over 300 of those prophesies were fulfilled, and not by His actions, but of actions done to Him ,and not for his pleasure, mind you. And after it was fulfilled, hundreds more went to grisly deaths rather than deny the truth of what they had witnessed.

    Now, you used Leviticus to try to paint Christians in a certain way. Just remember that Leviticus is part of the Torah. Im just sayin.............
    And im not sure your point about first and second century Christians painting Jews as Christkillers. Thats been discussed quite a bit in the "Old Testament reasons..." link. That was indeed a heinous and barbaric thing.

    Its not in the Spirit of Jesus, however, and its certainly not what anyone who actually believes in the Gospels would believe. Jews did not kill Christ.
    Christians believe that we all killed Christ. Sinning man. Now, for the record, the Jewish leaders had a part to play, and it was the Romans who actually did the killing. If you actually WATCHED the Passion of the Christ, Gibson was very clear on this. In fact he made a point of presenting and making clear the many Jewish people who believed and loved Jesus. And in the filming, the hand that drives the first nail into Christs hand was Gibsons own, to be sure the point was made that he knew that he himself killed Christ as much as anybody. This is not to take away his own personal nutty behavior. But the film itself stays very close to scripture, and was in no way Anti-Semitic.

    All of this is that I just wrote is just how I interpret things. No need to get all worked up about it. It doesnt force you to believe in anything. You dont even have to read it. There are cetainly far more aggressive attacks people make toward one another on Patsfan.com. Have you checked out the Political board lately? Yikes.

    I hope you take this simply as a guy who loves the Lord and doesnt want to hide it. That first commandment is a serious one.

    I wish the best for everyone here. And I hope you have a blessed night.
     
  5. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    3, in that you are a Christian, it does not matter what a Jew is to you. I take it you have no recourse to mob violence or the making of anti-Semitic legislation, which are historically common responses to this simple but frustrating fact. Intellectually, your position is bankrupt, except in the eyes of other Christians. Christianity has only ever had a position from which to dictate Jewish definitions of Judaism by force of arms.

    Your estimate of the percentage of world Jewry eradicated through forced conversion, explicit baptism-for-social-entree exchanges, and rare "changes of heart" such as your own, is very difficult to fact-check, but I admit I spoke rashly on the statistical front. After all, George Allen of Virginia appears to be Jewish now too, if we take the matrilineal argument to be compelling. I would not, however, accept him as an authority on the proper lacing of tefillin. An apostate may still be able to point to Jewish lineage, under Jewish tradition, but his apostate status certainly does not make him an authority on Judaism, only -- perhaps -- on the faith he left Jewish belief for.

    I once again apologize for leading you into temptation, by providing yet another soapbox for your spurious arguments of your last post.

    I understand you now believe that Jews did not kill Jesus any more than, say, Cape Verdians, and that the writers of the Gospels were in fact gilding the lily when they wrote their accounts. I hope these points will remain etched in your memory when next you discuss these matters.

    As to your work on the scriptural "choseness" of the Jewish people: If you tell any people they are in some way "chosen," that people will indeed get a psychological boost. I'm not going to enter into scriptural discussions with you, or discussions on the nature of scripture, or literal reading (after all, you still cannot explain why neither you nor I have stoned a witch lately.) Suffice it to say that the scripture of the Jewish people, composed some few thousand years ago, says the Jewish people are God's people. So if Christians (or Muslims, or Yanomamo,) also tell themselves they are God's people, who am I to object? I only object when you square the circle, in terms of your psychological/theological conflict of interests, by saying Christians are in fact the real Jews.

    On the matter of telling Christians that Christianity is Jewish, you're simply telling them what they want to hear, and watching their eyes light up. That does not, in fact, make what you tell them the truth. It just makes you the lucky one who gets to watch their eyes light up. Believe what you want, personally -- but Christianity is not Judaism. It is Christianity.

    Christianity, like Islam, claims to be the successor religion to Judaism. Like Islam, Christianity claims that the Jewish scriptures themselves predict the replacement of Judaism with the successor religion. In both cases, historically, when the argument failed to pass muster with most actual Jews, the proselytizers predictably turned violent and employed the tried and true conversion-by-the-sword method of winning hearts and minds (hardly something I expect of my so-called "fellow Jews.")

    There is nothing wrong with being a Christian, 3tob. Just accept it. You're a Jew by birth, and a Christian by faith, and within your branch of Christianity, there are plenty of Christians who get emotional warm and fuzzies by being told they are Jews. This is all you've described.

    It's flattering in a way, but just plain not true. Judaism's "once a Jew, always a Jew" position does not entitle you to convey to other Christians "membership" in the Jewish people. There is a somewhat arduous conversion process they may avail themselves of, if indeed they would like to become Orthodox Jews, the type you say you most admire. There are also conversion procedures in other branches of Judaism. Unfortunately, doctrines like the trinity and the books of the Greek bible are not part of Judaism, and conversion for ulterior motives is strictly ruled out. So if your Christian friends do wish to become Jewish they would have to, well, become Jewish.

    As I've made clear, I have no desire to wade into your scriptural debates. By admission, you are incapable of a truly open-ended discussion of same, and you have shown yourself to place your ultimate goal vis a vis myself -- denigration of Judaism and Jews, en route to glorification of Christian conversion -- well ahead of any other concerns. Again, you have no standing from which to discuss the tenets of Judaism with me, and I do not trust your motives in a discussion of either Judaism or Christianity. By your fruits, I know you.

    Thanks,

    PFnV
     
  6. Clonamery

    Clonamery PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I admire fortitude and faith and belief in what belongs to you.

    I get this song in my head every time I wander into this thread. I know it probably just means I'm simpleminded and fairly ignorant of most religions and their texts, but I like to think I can march to it better than most.....

    from 'Freedom of Choice' by Devo:

    In ancient rome
    There was a poem
    About a dog
    Who found two bones
    He picked at one
    He licked the other
    He went in circles
    He dropped dead

    Freedom of choice
    Is what you got
    Freedom from choice
    Is what you want
     
  7. 3 to be 4

    3 to be 4 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    If you are so solid in your positions, why do you spend half your posts throwing out insults and snide remarks? Your constant claims that "I have no desire to wade into your scriptural debates" remind me of the guy in "The Princess Bride" who keeps saying "Inconceivable!"

    you keep coming back for something, and I'm glad you do, it keeps the conversation lively.

    Bible-based Christians dont have to go through any ardous conversion process. They already have Justification by faith, and the goal isnt to have "membership" in anything. the focus isnt on a religion, its on Jesus Christ. Per scripture, for both Christian and Jew, not having acceptance for Christ means having to go through the arduos task of adhering to "the Law", which is pointless because nobody can in a way that is acceptable enough.
    Not without a sacrifice. Not without atonement. And then the Law still must be kept perfectly.

    At he very least, the first commandment must be at the forefront. I love the God, with all my heart, with all my soul, with all my mind. And I love Him because He first loved me.

    Isnt God wonderful? Have a blessed day.
     
  8. 3 to be 4

    3 to be 4 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    "PFIV: 3, in that you are a Christian, it does not matter what a Jew is to you. I take it you have no recourse to mob violence or the making of anti-Semitic legislation, which are historically common responses to this simple but frustrating fact. Intellectually, your position is bankrupt, except in the eyes of other Christians. Christianity has only ever had a position from which to dictate Jewish definitions of Judaism by force of arms"

    excuse me but has their been a lot of mob violence by Christians towards Jews in your neighborhood recently? To me, this borderlines on the "slander" you often throw out. There are millions of wondeful, loving Christian people and to constantly dredge up these examples from centuries ago is way out of line at this point. You make a blanket statement about Christians that is that warrents an entry in the Christian haters thread.
     
  9. Clonamery

    Clonamery PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."
    - Inigo Montoya
     
  10. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    First: Okay, Clonamary, I just cracked up (in real life, not in an "LOL" way where you don't really laugh.)

    As to 3's latest:
    Your opinion that history has no bearing is what is way out of line. I specifically used the word "historically" in pondering your access to mob violence, although the hate crime statistics still consistently point to anti-Semitism as the character of the hate crime, in the second-highest proportion of cases (and this is by absolute numbers, against a group comprising perhaps 3% of the general population. Blacks, numbering about 5 times that, are targeted in 3 times the number of hate crimes.)
    Here's 2004. I do not know whether 2005 is available yet, but the pattern is consistent across earlier years as well.

    http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004885.html

    You'll also note that hate crime against Christians, a far greater population, is comparatively miniscule: 48 incidents against Protestants, and 68 against Catholics, to 1,047 against Jews. I've noted personal experience with anti-Semitism previously in this thread; evidently you are unaware of this phenomenon, although you were born to Jewish parents. Consider yourself fortunate.

    My apologies if I've led you to believe that I think of anti-Semitism as a phenomenon from "centuries ago" only. You may not be aware that less than a century ago, the single worst incident of anti-Semitic hate-crime transpired in Christian Europe. Many wonderful "righteous gentiles," at great risk to themselves, helped mitigate this evil. Many others, in the name of Christian faith, helped perpetrate it. I have no interest in painting Christians as inherently unable to divorce themselves from anti-Semitism.

    You, personally, do exhibit it. And your notion that awareness of history is offensive can only be described as a laughable and transparent ruse. Bringing true facts from objectively accepted history to your attention, can not be described as "anti-Christian hatred," regardless of how inconvenient the truth is to your own personal interpretations.

    Thanks,

    PFnV

    Edited a "prior to" to a "less than." Fingers faster than brain.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2006
  11. 3 to be 4

    3 to be 4 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    okay, you've convinced me. accepting Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior will ultimatly, if unchecked, lead you to physically attack a Jewish person.

    there were about the same number of attacks on Homosexuals in those statistics. The conclusion is clear: Hetorsexuality will eventually lead one to go beat up a Homosexual!!
     
  12. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I just got done specifying that it is not a given that Christians must by nature be anti-Semitic.

    However, the singling out of Jews for these disputations -- or for hate crimes -- by a Christian, acting with religious motivation, is an anti-Semitic expression of Christianity.

    If you feel you must act in such a manner, it is unimportant to me whether you consider yourself a Christian anti-Semite, or a self-hating Jew. The singling out of Jews for harassment is the operative consideration, not whether the anti-Semite in question was born to Jewish parents.

    Thanks,

    PFnV
     
  13. 3 to be 4

    3 to be 4 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    im singling out Jews? right now? all those youtube posts were to Jews?
    I mean, yes, the Old Testament reasons for Jews for to believe in Jesus was directed at Jewish people since it made sense to me that since Jews wrote the Old Testament and Jews hopefully read much of what is written in their scriptures that thewy might find it interesting.

    the Please read this if you need Jesus thread certainly wasnt, nor the videos, nor most of my posts. Are you referring to me talking to you and since you are Jewish then you conclude that I am a singler out of Jewish people?

    Maybe it comes up more because some of my most vocal critics here have been Jewish people, so it comes up more. But I would be just as happy if a Muslim came to Christ, or if an Athiest came to Christ, whatever!

    You might believe it, but not every post or thread I create is done with YOU in mind.

    And the fact that most of the response I get is negative is hardly surprising since in this culture, and this world, so not surprisingly this website, you can say or joke about anything. You can attack each other with the most awful things (see political board). But nothing will galvanize the crowd into a crazed frenzy as the name Jesus Christ. He is hated because to he threatens people with their own truth about themselves. And the people that believe in him are called all sorts of names and held to ridiculous standards of behavior and mocked and demeaned because of the Lord they serve and worship.

    I dont really mind just as long as the dialogue has some semblence of courtesy and truth behind it. You lied earlier and dont even have the integrity to admit it. You throw out these mudballs and then backpeddle and then justify it all because 3 to be 4 is "proselytising"

    I do miss some of the culture of secular judaism. When I lived in Brookline, we lived near Kupels, the best bagel, lox, and cream cheese sandwich ever. I loved walking around the Temples and the Jewish book stores. I miss the B & D Deli. And most of all, I miss Rubens and the best chopped liver sandwiches around. What I never found in that culture was a strong dependence on God, just a culture, a "religion". And if God was invoked, it was usually along the lines of telling him what to do or what he was doing wrong. (see, Tevya in Fiddler on the Roof)

    lamenting wasnt a fitting response to a God who deserves praise from us.
    He led us through Egypt. He gaves us a means of atonement. He forgives us our trespasses. And He has kept all His promises to us and He always will.

    I love the Psalms and Proverbs in the Old Testament because they sing of such love for God. And they point the way to what is to be ours to come.

    Perhaps I would understand your hostility toward my interpretations of Judaism if I saw some reverence toward God in yours. Despite the comments that will probably come from those who have no love for God anyway, so its irrelevant, this is a point that does address this little "issue" weve been having directly. Between Jews, shall we say?

    I never came on this board and targeted you directly. You jumped in the debate, both guns blarring, so you are a big boy that doesnt need to hide behind the "im being persecuted" sheild. But as you have continually ridiculed my beliefs, both my Jewish background, and the conversion Ive made, be a man about it and dont cry and whine when you get a little "constructive criticism" back.

    You've done a lousy job representing a faith that is the beginning and the end of all faiths. You tear apart scripture. You fail to honor God. You lie and insult others. You KNOW about religion. But what do you practice?
    Where? How often? Do you keep the Law? You know all about tearing apart Christians in the name of protecting Judaism. But you've never told any of us. Whats Judaism mean to you? Whats God mean to you? or is it just a conveniant culture thing?

    Yeah, im asking. I dont want to define you, so define yourself, since you have been so willing so be such a judge of me.

    at least the other posters who have taken swipes at me have done it just because they dont want to hear about God or religion. You do it in this arrogant, "intellectual" way in which you sound like you know all about the ins and outs of religion, when it sounds like you dont even believe in the Faith you are defending.

    so come out, tell me all about Judaism. tell me all about your faith and the services you go to and how much you believe in God. Because if you dont have that, who are you to tell me anything about Judaism? And if you cant tell me about your God, maybe its you who is the self-hating Jew.
     
  14. PatsFanInVa

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    Or maybe I prefer to keep my own relationship with God, between myself and God at this point.

    Thanks. I think we're there, in terms of your harassment. I'll see what the board says about it, and perhaps we can end this ugly charade.

    PFnV
     
  15. shmessy

    shmessy . PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Is it me, or does anyone else get the giggles reading this from a guy who supposedly resigned from this very messageboard a week and a half ago?

    Look in the mirror, Job.

    (And, btw, your reference point for Jews' relationship with God is Tevya from Fiddler on the Roof????? Do you gain your knowledge of African Americans from watching Sanford and Son? You are the hardest workin' man in entertainment and I love you for it, 3!)
     
  16. 3 to be 4

    3 to be 4 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    harassed? Brave guy can dish it out but he cant take it. Cant answer one question so he calls out "harassment" and "I'll see what the board says about it"

    Before you judge my relationship with God, just remember how, when given a chance, you couldnt even proclaim your own.

    and before you dismiss me as being such a know nothing, how did I know you had a history of being beaten up?
    A) Because ive been there
    B) Because I know a bit about people

    And before its said, "well, if you know so much about people why are you ticking so many people off.." its because the truth about Jesus ticks people off. I must be doing a good job of hitting some nerves if so many people are so ticked off by some little posts on a silly football website.

    look inside yourselves if you are getting riled up. With all thats going on in the world, what is the big problem with Jesus Christ being proclaimed as the Lord and Savior on a chat room?
     
  17. 3 to be 4

    3 to be 4 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    How was the service tonight?
     
  18. shmessy

    shmessy . PatsFans.com Supporter

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    ......said the never riled up 3tobe 4 two weeks after he lost all composure and dropped an F-Bomb right on this very messageboard!!!!!! I truly love ya, 3. You provide some of the best entertainment anywhere on the website (that is, since Ian banned Aurora Faye Martinez-Brady!).

    Gee, fella, I wonder why such an "at peace" guy would get so ticked off? Someone must be doing a good job of "hitting some nerves" on you??????

    3, you are the POSTER BOY for "being ticked off". No one else here has been so out of control to write exactly what you did that night. And then....and then to have the unmitigated gall to lecture others that you must be "doing a good job of hitting some nerves" on THEM! Who writes your material, bro???? Give him/her a raise, 'cause it's solid gold!!!

    You're like Keith Richards telling others to lay off the drugs.
     
  19. shmessy

    shmessy . PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Almost as good as a "bagel, lox and cream cheese SANDWICH" at a showing of Fiddler on the Roof.

    Why am I thinking of Ed Begley Jr.'s PBS TV Producer character in the movie "A Mighty Wind" right now?

    "Oy, I've got tzoris in my shaigetz!!!"
     
  20. 3 to be 4

    3 to be 4 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    you think that was ticked off? please.

    As far as the thing a few weeks back, you are darn right i was ticked off. I was getting branded with the most ridiculous accusations, whether directly or indirectly. you'd be pretty ticked off to if people were insinuating you were targeting children on the internet. What I get ticked off about isnt around my faith, its about having things from out of left field of the most heinous nature being speculated about me. In fact, you were a prime instigator of such dispicable behavior and it got me angry enough and, oh my, i hurled an F-bomb. And if people were doing that to you......

    this guy, PFIV, has been hurling insults from day one. He never had to respond to one of my posts but he jumped right in with the taunts and the false accusations and the judgements because he obviously isnt secure in his own "whatever it is" he believes in. I couldnt care less what he believes, but he has no right to expect that im going to just let him trash Jesus Christ, Christianity, hurl lies about me over and over, and then after defining what I believe, what christians believe, what Jews believe, get away with hiding behind the "oh my god is personal" Baloney. He opened it up with trashing me, so he can be a man and tell us why I'm not a Jew but he is. I want to hear about the Jewish life of PatsFaninVa and what exactly that means. He opened himself up to that question by ripping my beliefs to shreds.

    And of course you will stick up for him because you have a stake in him being right, as your stance is similar, while less angry and insulting (although you do have your moments). And of course almost every poster here will agree with him because they dont believe in Jesus or God either, so his position is more agreeable to them. If I go away, they dont have to deal with their own godlessness.

    it serves your purposes that I be painted the unreasonable one. And it doesnt matter a bit. I know im right about this. I certainly dont believe because its popular, because its not (although an arguement was once made here that life as a Christian is easier in the US than to not be). Yeah right, this is easy.

    and throw out the numbers. 60% or whatever might say they are Christian but ask people about whether the Bible is the word of God and if Jesus is the way to Salvation and those numbers go down to about 20%. Bible based Christ centered Christianity is NOT popular at all. But its the truth and when I face God I will be secure in my place with Him. This life is like a blink of an eye. Here today, gone tomorrrow. You guys better be right. Because if im wrong, i'll have a grand surprise, more souls in Heaven that I could ever imagine. But if you guys are wrong......................

    Make sure you're right.

    oh, and dont worry. The tanks arent coming to anyones door tonight to rouse up the non-believers and haul them to prison, melodrama aside.

    one more bit of news for people who want to throw the Crusades at my feet.
    A) Go talk to the Catholics about that
    B) Ive had my share of relatives killed for being Jewish
    C) If the trains come for the Jews again, they'd be coming for this Jew just as fast as they'd come for you
    D) they'd be rounding up the rest of the Christians too.

    so can we dispense with the second century nonsense and deal with reality?

    thank you. Mozel Tov.
     

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