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Ok you stretched an "all pros are the same thing as stats" argument out over 6 pages the real loser here is the people reading the threadOk, if you can't admit something as blatantly obvious as this, we're done here. I'll just consider that ridiculous response to be your tap out.
Vinatieri has 4 rings (to Edelman's 3). 3 1st team All Pros to Edelman's zero. 3 Pro Bowls to Edelman's zero. Completed more field goals than anyone else in history. Scored more points than anyone else in history. Was on the 2000's All Decade team. Was on the NFL 100 Anniversary team.It is strange to me that so many people claim “clutch“ and championships aren’t really Hall measurements, but it’s almost universally agreed that Vinatieri is “a first ballot Hall of Famer.”
A kicker, who was very accurate and played in a lot of postseason games, but who also wasn’t great on kickoffs of long FGs, a Hall of Famer, without putting a lot of weight on clutch/postseason? Longevity stats are great, but those alone probably don’t get a place kicker in.
The issue is they aren't similar. Wes was a 4 time All Pro, a 5 time Pro Bowler, led the league in receptions 3 times, has 5 seasons where he got more yards than Edelman's all time best season, has 5 seasons where he had more receptions than Edelman's all time best season, has 3 seasons where he had more TD's than Edelman's all time best season.Why is it one or the other with you guys? Jules has rings, Wes doesn't. Other than that, they are very damned similar.
I can see the NFL films of Wes and Bill on the sidelines when Jules ran back an punt in pre-season. Way to compete.
Without reading into it, I’m not sure how Gronk is even in the conversation regarding Edelman. Everyone who isn’t blind knows Gronk is going to the hall of fame as soon as he’s eligible.That’s one season.
We’re talking about the most dominant TE in NFL history here.
How did the rest of the seasons go with or without him? They most likely win in 2011 with a healthy Gronk. They most likely at least go to the Super Bowl in 2012. They had no shot against the Broncos in 2013 without him. They do not win against the Seahawks in 2014 without him.
They have no shot of beating the Broncos in 2015 without him. They get blown out by the Eagles in 2017 without him. He set up the game winner against the Rams in 2018.
The offense always ran through Gronk. Edelman was always the sidekick/complementary player. The importance of Gronk vs Edelman is disrespectful to even consider.
Had the Pats not drafted Gronk, I don’t even think Brady stays past 2014.
Vinatieri has 4 rings (to Edelman's 3). 3 1st team All Pros to Edelman's zero. 3 Pro Bowls to Edelman's zero. Completed more field goals than anyone else in history. Scored more points than anyone else in history. Was on the 2000's All Decade team. Was on the NFL 100 Anniversary team.
So Vinatieri has an extra ring, records, and a bunch of accolades that Edelman doesn't have.
Vinatieri is also universally regarded as the best kicker of all time. Edelman isn't even the best pass catcher for the Pats in the dynasty era between Welker, Gronk and Moss.
Wes never won a Super Bowl. Edelman won three of them and played a big role in each victory. That’s a pretty big feather in Edelman’s cap over Welker.
In terms of skill and overall production, Welker is better. But Edelman rose to the occasion when it mattered most. And it wasn’t just those Super Bowls that he came up huge in.
The time frames Edelman and Welker played in are vastly different... people have been *****ing about the lack of weapons for Brady on New England for years... But that wasnt always the case...
Welker was playing on stacked teams with multiple weapons... Welker & Moss was a fantastic combo, who really helped each other out... who do you cover? The supporting cast on offense was clearly superior... Brady was on fire... Stallworth, Watson, Faulk, even Gaffney... then we hit the the Gronk/Hernandez era of the two tight end sets... Welker was the beneficiary of this...
Edelman played with who? oft injured Gronk? Amendola? Cooks? Dorsett? Marty? Dwayne Allen?
Two different teams, two different offenses... People making direct statistical comparisons between Welker and Edelman are being ridiculous because they were asked to do two different things...
The idea of bringing accolades to the table.. pro bowls ( fan voting? joke) All Pros, etc... doesn't make the argument you think it does... Its ****ing stupid... Ask Welker if he'd give up all those All Pros in exchange for a single Super Bowl ring, let alone 3... How about a Super Bowl MVP? I'd wager real money he would...
Each has stood out amongst their peers for a variety of reasons... Both were great... Both did what they were asked to do in their time in New England and excelled at it... This ripping one to prop up the other is BS. Its the old Manning v Brady argument with two different actors... Is it stats? Is it winning? Is it intangibles? Is it accolades? Its all three etc, taken in context of when they played and with who/what tea,s... The same guys spouting off on stats are the same guys who argued Brady over Manning in the early days... Hello??????
Both belong in the Hall of Fame.
Neither will get there.
And that what everybody should be really pissed off about and arguing against.
This ^Here’s the difference between Edelman and Welker:
Welker played in 2 Super Bowls, one divisional round game, and 3 AFC title games.
Edelman was apart of teams that went to 5 SB’s, 8 straight AFC title games and two WC games.
Edelman was on way better teams with way more opportunities.
Did it happen?
Like you acked about a SB MVP in your post......
Uhhhh like Welker did like play well in SB XLII. It's like it's not his fault like the Tyree catch happened.
Julio Jones should not be penalized because miserable play calling negated a Super Bowl win for him. He had an all time Super Bowl catch.
Edelman will likely never get into the HOF. The Hall is very stats driven and Edelman doesn't have the elite stats. Also, he has a rep of being a slot receiver (although he played outside probably as much or more over his career) and slot receivers never get love from the Hall.
Being a Patriot will likely hurt several players' chances because many players sacrificed stats for winning.