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Tank for Lawrence

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by thecore762, Mar 17, 2020.

  1. Elijah

    Elijah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    This is kind of where I'm at with the idea of tanking. You can do everything "correctly", get your guy, he even turns out to be everything you hoped for. Even after all of those things going right, it could very easily be thrown away because of bad luck (injuries, running into Tom Brady in the playoffs). Nothing is guaranteed, so why put everything you have into one player?
     
  2. TBR

    TBR Pro Bowl Player

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    Exactly. This is where sticking to MUH PRINCIPLES and pride can hurt.

    One bad season like 2-14 in exchange for a fantastic shot at a franchise player (aka several years of potential greatness) is a no-brainer, as opposed to mediocrity and hoping you get lucky with a player dropping to you (example being the slimy Chiefs).
     
  3. BaconGrundleCandy

    BaconGrundleCandy PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I didn't make the point you're trying to make and seem to be stuck on.

    Indy didn't fail bc of Luck. They failed bc of all the bs they allowed to happen.

    Not maximizing the talent around him and leaving the offense with a terrible OL. Luck definitely held onto the ball to long at times but it was literally always on him to make a play or make something happen.

    Coaching was about average early on and got slightly better but he never had his Andy Reid. Certainly didn't have the talent Mahomes had this last year or close to it.

    And again the owner and FO during that time speak for themselves. They played an enormous part in ruining their most prized asset!

    I can't imagine looking at that situation and saying ... "Luck was overrated or Luck was the problem".

    Maybe we evaluate and value different things but you seem to be stuck on Lombardi's? That's fine but lets not act like Brady, being the GOAT.
    Hasn't had tremendous help in the ways of the team around him. At times some of the best weapons in the game (Moss, Wes, 11, Gronk) All are HOF or borderline. Lots of very good complementary players as well.
    Our OL over the years have been underrated to great/dominate. Balanced with at times great defense and ST play.

    He had Bill, Josh, Erinie and arguably the best FO in the league.

    For all Kraft's faults he was much better than Irsay.

    Not go compare that to what Luck had to deal with.
     
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  4. BaconGrundleCandy

    BaconGrundleCandy PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Sure everything could go wrong in a dumpster fire like Indy.

    Solely putting winning/losing on one player is foolish. Even a position like the QB.

    One guy isn't putting out multiple fires caused by the organization.

    The whole idea here is to get Bill his guy asap bc in theory our staff, basically him. FO and defense are ready to roll rn.
     
  5. farn

    farn Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Luck was an overrated, playoff INT machine who was unable to get to one single SB. He had a sucky owner & GM but he was the chosen one. And he came up short. I think 2006 Brady gets at least one of those Indy teams to the SB.
     
  6. Patriot Missile

    Patriot Missile Pro Bowl Player

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    Won’t tank for Lawrence but maybe Trevor :p
     
  7. XLIX

    XLIX Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Tom Brady is the greatest QB of all time. Just because a QB can't live up to Brady's standard doesn't mean that QB sucks.

    Andrew Luck was a good QB. Why that's not enough for some people remains a mystery....
     
  8. farn

    farn Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    He was the chosen one. He is the one everyone uses as an example of “good tanking”. He was good - at best. Good isn’t enough when you are “Andrew Luck”. Ty Warren was good. No one would have said “tank for Ty”.
     
  9. BaconGrundleCandy

    BaconGrundleCandy PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You don't know how to evaluate the position if you think Luck was "good - at best".

    Bill values toughness & leadership more than anything. Luck had those in spades. Not to mention arm talent, mobility & ability to cut up a defense. Teammates loved playing for him.

    He **** himself against the greatest dynasty ever. GOATS on and off the field. Hardly mean he was "good - at best".

    Again it goes back to understanding and being able to evaluate the position.

    Situation/Circumstance(s) & opportunity play more into how a QB will turn out than you're acknowledging or understand.

    Luck was placed in an awful one. Think about the talent on that team before he got there. This was a joke of a team and organization. The Colts were a joke. He carried them as far as he could. Overcoming a lot.

    Sitting back and just pointing to rings, in this particular case sounds like a spoiled fan, no?
     
  10. farn

    farn Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Andrew Luck Playoffs Game Log | Pro-Football-Reference.com

    More INTs than TDs. Other than a couple of games, under 60% completion.
     
  11. BaconGrundleCandy

    BaconGrundleCandy PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Again, you're box score scouting and ignoring any context from that period. That team and what was happening.

    We can agree to disagree on Luck.
     
  12. farn

    farn Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    We can. We were lucky to have had Brady for so long. We smashed through so many of the “next ones”.

    You are a good person. I’m pretty decent myself. Stay safe.
     
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  13. XLIX

    XLIX Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Ty Warren didn’t play the most important position in professional sports.
     
  14. MainePatsFan26

    MainePatsFan26 Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    I'm for trading away pieces of the team but also seeing if Stidham might be the guy. If we are terrible, we can be in the market for Lawrence. If Stidham does a good job and we're .500, then we can use picks on other needs or trade some of them for future picks.

    I like the idea of regrouping but not without seeing if Stidham is the real deal. If the coaches already believe he isn't the guy, then by all means tank.
     
  15. MainePatsFan26

    MainePatsFan26 Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    I struggle to see this team doing 8-8 ball unless Stidham has a phenomenal year. On paper, we've lost far more weapons than we've gained and father time is also zeroing in on the defense.

    In reality, we're probably going to be bottom 5 this year when it comes to talent. I'm sure Belichick and the other coaches will squeeze a few wins out of the young players and journeymen on the way to 6-10. That is already going to result in a decent draft position. If we star trading assets, maybe we can be 4-12 and be in the market for top shelf talent.
     
  16. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    luck was the second best college qb I have ever seen play behind Peyton Manning. His arm, decision making and accuracy were off the charts. It is not his fault colts management left him alone on the field to die.

    ps: I fully expect Lawrence to pass luck next season and maybe Peyton as well. Lawrence is a generational qb!
     
  17. XLIX

    XLIX Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    I can think of 20 college QBs of the past 25 years I’d rather have than Peyton Manning. Don’t let his excellence as a pro whitewash what was a flawed college career.
     
  18. patsfaninpa

    patsfaninpa Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    You funny. Manning should have won Heisman in 97
     
  19. Ice_Ice_Brady

    Ice_Ice_Brady PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I can’t believe he lost the big game to Florida...again. So un-Manning like to lose the one that really counts.

    How did that Tennessee team do the year after he left?

    (I’m not saying he shouldn’t have won the Heisman, just pointing out the absurd overhype of this choker...same story in college.)
     
  20. XLIX

    XLIX Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    No he shouldn’t have.

    Stop letting professional success change how good you think players were in college. If we are talking college, I’d rather have Mariota, Russell, Smith or Tebow than Manning, even though there’s no pro success there.

    Joe Burrow... RG3.... Jameis... Cam... Palmer... Tua.... even Eric Crouch who, IIRC, was drafted to play CB and didn’t even make the team, were better college QBs.

    You can’t spell Citrus without “UT”!
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2020

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