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Still No # 1WR

2021 Patriots Season:
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Next Up: vs Jets
Pick Results: NYJ: 0% at NE: 0%

Sun
Oct 24th

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patsfanincleveland

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
I don't get the obsession with that mystical WR1.

Given how we spent on offense in FA it seems pretty likely that we will run the majority of snaps out of 2 TE sets and most likely 12 personnel. And while the WR room lacks a superstar it is well balanced with players that cover all kinds of roles.

What exactly is the value of either investing valuable (early) draft picks or a substantial amount of cap space into a player that will be a decoy the vast majority of times ?

This is really a product of constant media obsessing over it. The "pass rusher" is in the same boat. The bias is towards highlights.

Talk of player is easier than discussing scheme. Would fans (not here) rather listen about TO or watch Belichick breakdown passing scheme for 3 hours?
 

VJCPatriot

Pro Bowl Player
We will not be up 14-3 on them, we will be down 2 scores. It is unbelievably difficult to play defense in this league with the rules that favor the passing game on top of dynamic offenses and QBs like the Bills, Chiefs, Browns, etc. Our margin is ridiculously small to compete.

LOL this statement is a JOKE. You do realize that the Patriots had a top 10 defense by just about every metric in the book last season right?

We are returning in 2021 with both Gilmore and JC Jackson as our top corners. Dontae Hightower is coming back after opting out last year. On top of that we added Judon, Godchaux, Van Noy, Anderson, and Jalen Mills in free agency. In the draft we added Barmore and Perkins to stack up the talent on the front 7 even MORE. By all metrics our squad is literally STACKED on defense and you think we're going to be starting games down 14-3? That statement sounds RIDICULOUS and out of touch with the talent and strengths of this Patriots roster.

In 2021, the Pats don't have to win games 31-28. They can win ugly 24-13 or 20-17 or even 13-3. They have the talent to win more than 50% of their games based on their 11 defenders alone. The offense only needs to be adequate this year. The defense is gonna carry us.

On top of that the offense doesn't even look bad. Agholor, Bourne as new wide receivers from free agency instantly become the top 2 WR on the depth chart and the additions of Hunter Henry and Jonnu Smith elevate a last place tight end group into a top 3 tight end group in the NFL in terms of pure talent. I really don't see where you are coming from. This reads like a statement typically made by Boston media, narrow minded, and harping only on the negatives, without consideration of all the actual factors at play.

It comes off like the mediot who said the Patriots only drafted Mac Jones because they are 'quarterback horny'. :maybenot: Wow. 5* dumpster fire analysis by Boston media as usual. :headscratch: Stop buying into the mediots. The sky is NOT falling down. :p The Patriots are in great competitive shape for 2021!!
 

amfootball

In the Starting Line-Up
LOL this statement is a JOKE. You do realize that the Patriots had a top 10 defense by just about every metric in the book last season right?

We are returning in 2021 with both Gilmore and JC Jackson as our top corners. Dontae Hightower is coming back after opting out last year. On top of that we added Judon, Godchaux, Van Noy, Anderson, and Jalen Mills in free agency. In the draft we added Barmore and Perkins to stack up the talent on the front 7 even MORE. By all metrics our squad is literally STACKED on defense and you think we're going to be starting games down 14-3? That statement sounds RIDICULOUS and out of touch with the talent and strengths of this Patriots roster.

In 2021, the Pats don't have to win games 31-28. They can win ugly 24-13 or 20-17 or even 13-3. They have the talent to win more than 50% of their games based on their 11 defenders alone. The offense only needs to be adequate this year. The defense is gonna carry us.

On top of that the offense doesn't even look bad. Agholor, Bourne as new wide receivers from free agency instantly become the top 2 WR on the depth chart and the additions of Hunter Henry and Jonnu Smith elevate a last place tight end group into a top 3 tight end group in the NFL in terms of pure talent. I really don't see where you are coming from. This reads like a statement typically made by Boston media, narrow minded, and harping only on the negatives, without consideration of all the actual factors at play.

It comes off like the mediot who said the Patriots only drafted Mac Jones because they are 'quarterback horny'. :maybenot: Wow. 5* dumpster fire analysis by Boston media as usual. :headscratch: Stop buying into the mediots. The sky is NOT falling down. :p The Patriots are in great competitive shape for 2021!!
I never said we would not be competitive. I do think we can win games with this approach. I am pretty stoked about our D. But the days of winning deep into the playoffs on D alone are over. We had the 27th offense last year. Even if we move up to 20 this year which would be a significant jump, we will not beat the top teams of the AFC. You have to be able to score to win in today's NFL. LIke I said, look at the final four teams from the last 3 years and you will see high flying, dynamic offenses for the majority of them. The best we can do with our D is slow them down but offense will have to score. Maybe Jones becomes that guy eventually but we need to add more dynamic players and speed to really contend IMO.

EDIT: When I say more dynamic players, I am not just referring to wide receivers but also RBs and TEs. I hate that we drafted a 250 RB. We have Harris. Get a real play maker there. Get a slot receiver that can really press a defense across the field. Get a hybrid type of TE like we did when we drafted AH so we can move him around. When you look at KC, Bills, Cleveland, Rams, Bucs they are teams that can be explosive from anywhere on the field because they don't just have a great QB, they have playmakers all around him. The rules favor this approach in spades. It is so easy in today's league to get a speedy guy out in space because the defense can't touch him or the QB.
 
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Deus Irae

PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club
PatsFans.com Supporter
8 more pages of the same discussion that appears after every free agency & draft... because people cling to the hope of another Randy Moss 2007 year. Sure it was fun but we also lost that year.. shouldn't you be happy we are going with a formula that resulted in a 2nd dynasty?

It's Agholor deep and 2 top TE's.. move on.
8 more pages of people using "But they didn't win the SB" as an incredibly lame excuse to dismiss the issue...
 

mgteich

PatsFans.com Veteran
PatsFans.com Supporter
LOL this statement is a JOKE. You do realize that the Patriots had a top 10 defense by just about every metric in the book last season right?

We are returning in 2021 with both Gilmore and JC Jackson as our top corners. Dontae Hightower is coming back after opting out last year. On top of that we added Judon, Godchaux, Van Noy, Anderson, and Jalen Mills in free agency. In the draft we added Barmore and Perkins to stack up the talent on the front 7 even MORE. By all metrics our squad is literally STACKED on defense and you think we're going to be starting games down 14-3? That statement sounds RIDICULOUS and out of touch with the talent and strengths of this Patriots roster.

In 2021, the Pats don't have to win games 31-28. They can win ugly 24-13 or 20-17 or even 13-3. They have the talent to win more than 50% of their games based on their 11 defenders alone. The offense only needs to be adequate this year. The defense is gonna carry us.

On top of that the offense doesn't even look bad. Agholor, Bourne as new wide receivers from free agency instantly become the top 2 WR on the depth chart and the additions of Hunter Henry and Jonnu Smith elevate a last place tight end group into a top 3 tight end group in the NFL in terms of pure talent. I really don't see where you are coming from. This reads like a statement typically made by Boston media, narrow minded, and harping only on the negatives, without consideration of all the actual factors at play.

It comes off like the mediot who said the Patriots only drafted Mac Jones because they are 'quarterback horny'. :maybenot: Wow. 5* dumpster fire analysis by Boston media as usual. :headscratch: Stop buying into the mediots. The sky is NOT falling down. :p The Patriots are in great competitive shape for 2021!!
A TOP 5 DEFENSE

I see our defense as top 5. And this is with very little from the draftees, who we hope will be serious contributors as they develop. I think that we have sufficient depth in the front 6, even enough to cover the normal number of injuries.

I expect us to pick up another corner. We are fine with our top 3. Who is the 4th corner, used some, but essential if there are any injuries? I understand that Mills could play the role of 4th corner and backup free safety. So, I guess that we are fine with no injuries. We can field 7 very, very good defensive backs: 3 corners, 3 safeties and Mills. This is an incredible group. Mills is our #7!

CORNER DEPTH
I think that we might want to do better, if we can, than Williams, Bryant and Virgin. After all, it is no lock that we will have Gilmore and Jackson back next year. There are others, but Sherman or McCourty would fit the bill well.
 

Big Bucks

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
If Harry hasn't got it by week 5, I'm using some time to look for a trade for someone upto trade deadline. I'm happy with our pass catchers for now. I love Lazard and his blocking for the Packers got to say
 

Cam2HarryGOAT

On the Game Day Roster
We have now gone through free agency and the draft and surprisingly we still do not have anything close to a # 1 receiver on the team. High concern as there is no deep threat or a player that can "take the top" off the defense.
Its not Agholor, Bourne or Jakoby Myers that is for sure. Edelman's retirement has made this even more of a huge hole.
Now all that is left is for the June first other teams' castoffs to choose from. I think this was a big oversight and will limit how effective Cam can be and also the TE's ceilings.

Teams will be able to stack the middle and cover the seams and center of the field on short and intermediate roots.
I think more capital should have been spent on this in the draft.

The other teams in the AFC East have spent mightily on this over past 2 years

1. Bills- Stefan Diggs
2. Dolphins Jaylon Waddle
3. Jets- Corey Davis and Elijah Moore.

I still believe the pats offense will be somewhat anemic this year. Hopefully the defense, will cover for offense shortcomings.
Looks like addressing WR1 will have to wait until 2022.
You mean you don't want to watch three and outs and 22 play drives all year again this year? I really hope they resign Gilmopre. Because, I agree, offense will be an issue this year. Either Cam is terrible again this year and they pull him at 2-5, 2-6, or he's average to bad and they are winning in spite of it, then Bill wont pull him for Jones. I think it's Cam's jop to lose from the sounds of it. So I'm not sure how much it matters this year whot the WRs are. Only way way Jones gets in there is if the season is going down the toilet AND Cam is playing horribly. Feels like a throwaway year.
 

Cam2HarryGOAT

On the Game Day Roster
If Harry hasn't got it by week 5, I'm using some time to look for a trade for someone upto trade deadline. I'm happy with our pass catchers for now. I love Lazard and his blocking for the Packers got to say
I would be floored if Harry ever resembles a starting caliber WR. I think he clearly is what he is. A soft excuse maker who cannot get separation consistently or get YAC. They blew that pick. Reportedly because Bill did not listen to his scouts.
 

PScottman

In the Starting Line-Up
But the days of winning deep into the playoffs on D alone are over.
Did you watch the Super Bowl last year? What won that game for TB - the "high flying offense" or the defense?

Actually it was pretty complimentary frankly - and as "explosive" as KC's offense was supposed to be (and wasn't due to that TB D) their defense was just about as bad.

The salary cap prevents a fully stacked team across ALL three aspects - offense, defense, and special teams. The teams that win tend to be superlative at the QB spot and then either heavily skewed to either one or the other - offense or defense OR heavily skewed to specific aspects of the same (i.e. great secondary or DL or great WR & TE depth).
 
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patsfanfromoversea

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
Did you watch the Super Bowl last year? What won that game for TB - the "high flying offense" or the defense?
To be fair the Chiefs O-line sucked in that game. Having great Weapons doesn't mean or produce as much as it could when the protection sucks. Also they don't had any run game nor did want to run the football which is neccessary imo. I prefer our way to built the offense based on strong O-Line and not the top tier WR but still good weapons.
Actually it was pretty complimentary frankly - and as "explosive" as KC's offense was supposed to be (and wasn't due to that TB D) their defense was just about as bad.

The salary cap prevents a fully stacked team across ALL three aspects - offense, defense, and special teams. The teams that win tend to be superlative at the QB spot and then either heavily skewed to either one or the other - offense or defense OR heavily skewed to specific aspects of the same (i.e. great secondary or DL or great WR & TE depth).
Agree
 

Hawaiianpatsfan2

Practice Squad Player
I'm not sure about being a true number one, but I've read a few articles this week that have Robby Anderson as being a potential/likely cut or trade candidate after they drafted Terrence Marshall Jr in the (2nd) and Shi smith in the (6th). Im not sure Id want to trade for his contract, Although 1 year @ 8 Million is a pretty good deal, but I would absolutely love him on the team if he is cut.

I remember watching a few CAR games last year and he stood out. He had a pretty good stat line with 95 Receptions, 1,096 Receiving Yards, 3 TDs (including a 41 yard & 65+ yard bomb). 5 or more games of 100+ rec yards. By far the best season of his career statistically...first time going over 1,000 yards w/ career highs in catches & targets. Proved he was a threat in the short/medium passing game, not just a super dangerous deep threat.

I didn't remember him playing the middle of the field and running that complex of a route tree when with the NYJ. He really reminded me a little of Edelman with his style of YAC and toughness. Some might compare him and call him redundant to other players we have on the roster, but I feel differently.

In case you didn't catch his 2020 Highlights.

 
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captain stone

Hall of Fame Poster
Don't know why Damiere Byrd wasn't re-signed, at least...He's fast; he knew the system; he wasn't expensive; and he's trending upwards...
He's not a "#1" WR, but he could've provided insurance if/when Agholor returned to sucking as well as another option in the deep game...
He also has return experience, just in case...
 

captain stone

Hall of Fame Poster
I'm not sure about being a true number one, but ive read a few articles this week that have Robby Anderson as being a potential/likely cut or trade candidate. I wouldn't want to trade for his contract, but I would love him on the team if he is cut.

I remember watching a few CAR games last year and he stood out. I didn't remember him playing the middle of the field and running that complex of a route tree when with the NYJ. He really reminded me a little of Edelman with his style of YAC and toughness. Some might compare him and call him redundant to other players we have on the roster, but I feel differently.

In case you didn't catch his 2020 Highlights.


Anderson has talent...he's also a psycho...
 

Zuma

2035 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
PatsFans.com Supporter
Don't know why Damiere Byrd wasn't re-signed, at least...He's fast; he knew the system; he wasn't expensive; and he's trending upwards...
He's not a "#1" WR, but he could've provided insurance if/when Agholor returned to sucking as well as another option in the deep game...
He also has return experience, just in case...
Agreed. He's gone....moving on. Robby Anderson would be a better option even though he doesn't know the playbook.
 

The Brandon Five

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
We have now gone through free agency and the draft and surprisingly we still do not have anything close to a # 1 receiver on the team. High concern as there is no deep threat or a player that can "take the top" off the defense.
Its not Agholor, Bourne or Jakoby Myers that is for sure. Edelman's retirement has made this even more of a huge hole.
Now all that is left is for the June first other teams' castoffs to choose from. I think this was a big oversight and will limit how effective Cam can be and also the TE's ceilings.

Teams will be able to stack the middle and cover the seams and center of the field on short and intermediate roots.
I think more capital should have been spent on this in the draft.

The other teams in the AFC East have spent mightily on this over past 2 years

1. Bills- Stefan Diggs
2. Dolphins Jaylon Waddle
3. Jets- Corey Davis and Elijah Moore.

I still believe the pats offense will be somewhat anemic this year. Hopefully the defense, will cover for offense shortcomings.
Looks like addressing WR1 will have to wait until 2022.
Waddle is a rookie. We'll see.
 

patfanken

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
A TOP 5 DEFENSE

I see our defense as top 5. And this is with very little from the draftees, who we hope will be serious contributors as they develop. I think that we have sufficient depth in the front 6, even enough to cover the normal number of injuries.

I expect us to pick up another corner. We are fine with our top 3. Who is the 4th corner, used some, but essential if there are any injuries? I understand that Mills could play the role of 4th corner and backup free safety. So, I guess that we are fine with no injuries. We can field 7 very, very good defensive backs: 3 corners, 3 safeties and Mills. This is an incredible group. Mills is our #7!

CORNER DEPTH
I think that we might want to do better, if we can, than Williams, Bryant and Virgin. After all, it is no lock that we will have Gilmore and Jackson back next year. There are others, but Sherman or McCourty would fit the bill well.
Back when you could actually see the team practice up close and personal, I watched JJWilliams closesly and was impressed with him. I was even more impressed watching the small sample of his play his rookie year. Now last season was a total washout as he was shifted back and forth from CB to S all year. But here's the thing, the kid was playing behind Gilmore, Jackson, Jones, and McCourty. The #5 CB is NOT going to get much work in a defensive system that likes to use 3 safeties a lot. There was simply no room at the inn.

I know its easy to write him off. Its what the instant gratification crowd likes to do. But if JMcCourty ends up with the Giants. Williams could very well find himself getting snaps this season. And for those who like to "read into" personnel moves of the team what about this. Maybe the fact that we didn't add anyone to the CB room (so far) in FA or the draft is because they think that JJ Williams is ready to contribute this season to the best CB room in the league. (that being said I'm fairly sure we will add a CB to the roster in the next 3 months)

NOW to the real rant. - GOOOOOOOOOOOD I am tired of hearing about whether or not the Pats have a f#cking #1 WR. To any and all of you who believe a team needs one I have just have one thing to say to you. WTF have you been watching the last 20 years!!!!!!!!!!!

Because you sure as hell haven't been paying much attention to the local team's success. I mean WTF. How many GREAT WR's do have have to watch play on teams that consistently fail before you FINALLY get it that #! WR's are NOT a necessity to have a championship caliber team. I am LITERALLY YELLING AT MY LAPTOP, I am so angry.

We proport to have one of the most intelligent fan bases, posting on a site that caters to the best of this football savvy group, and yet we STILL get these endless discussions about freakin' #1 WR's. and the need to have them. I have no words any more.. I just have no more words.

I mean would I like to have the best WR in the league on my team. Sure I would. Would I trade him in an instant for the 5th best DLman in the league. You're damned straight I would.

Some time during the dead time that is the next 3 months I will fully expound on this topic AGAIN, but now I need to take something for my blood pressure......and I have low blood pressure.
 

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