PatsFans.com Menu
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans

Should the Patriots evaluate Joe Judge's performance?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Betterthanmost

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
2019 Weekly Picks Winner
2025 Weekly Picks Winner
Joined
Sep 28, 2009
Messages
9,942
Reaction score
8,000
I don't remember ever having to worry about a Scott O'Brien's unit impacting games like I do now under Joe Judge. The Eagles punt block is a fundamental breakdown regardless of the injuries we have faced.
I will give him the muffed punts because of injuries, but the return TD and that punt block are indicative of the sharpness we have lost.
Am I being too harsh?
Now I am worried about specials teams than what the other team is doing on defense and offense.
Edit: Not to be canned, but getting O'Brien for pointers or assistance. It is an important phase of the game and as we have seen, you can lose a game with specials teams without the defense being given a chance.
 
Last edited:
the special teams problems only became an issue once edelman was hurt. other than the muffed punts, which a healthy edelman should fix, the only other major special teams gaffes were the TD returns aganst philly. call those a fluke.
 
We were playing great until 3 weeks ago. By that I mean we were having the 3rd best starting field position of the NFL. Plus I believe we were top 10 in avg return (Not confirmed)

Then, our main Returner got injured (Edelman). Our second at the position (Amendola) got banged up and was relieved of his duties. We also had to cut and IR great ST players to fill position (For example, E. Martin who was back this week)

Additionally that Eagles play was most likely BB's decision, not Joe's.

So, in my mind, Yes, you are being too harsh. We had 1 bad game (Eagles) and a couple of personal errors. I don't think it's fair nor wise to judge his work for the entire year. Even more when you consider that he is replacing a Patriots' Hall Of Famer that is Scott O'Brien,
 
We were playing great until 3 weeks ago. By that I mean we were having the 3rd best starting field position of the NFL. Plus I believe we were top 10 in avg return (Not confirmed)

Then, our main Returner got injured (Edelman). Our second at the position (Amendola) got banged up and was relieved of his duties. We also had to cut and IR great ST players to fill position (For example, E. Martin who was back this week)

Additionally that Eagles play was most likely BB's decision, not Joe's.

So, in my mind, Yes, you are being too rash. We had 1 bad game (Eagles) and a couple of personal errors. I don't think it's fair nor wise to judge his work for the entire year. Even more when you consider that he is replacing a Patriots' Hall Of Famer that is Scott O'Brien,
I guess I may be overreacting. Wife was not watching the game and came in to see me with my hands on my head after the muffed punt today. My ire was immediately taken on Judge. I can list all the excuses for him as you have but I am still a bit pissed.
 
And you can clearly see DA isn't close to 100%, he still can't turn and move like before his injury.
 
The hypothetical next man up is in his first year as a coach at any level and played in a game 51 weeks ago. Judge will be evaluated in the offseason just like everybody else, but at this point I just don't see a short term alternative.
 
The hypothetical next man up is in his first year as a coach at any level and played in a game 51 weeks ago. Judge will be evaluated in the offseason just like everybody else, but at this point I just don't see a short term alternative.
I guess I should have been more clear in what I meant by evaluated. Not to be canned, but getting O'Brien for pointers or assistance. It is an important phase of the game and as we have seen, you can lose a game with specials teams without the defense being given a chance.
 
Meh, looked pretty good to me.

Well take a look at a couple of his receptions where he normally can get away and get YAC, he couldn't do it, he can't do that little duck and spin thing he has in the past. I also don't think they are going to take any chances of his getting more injured returning a kick, catch it and that's it.
 
I don't remember every having to worry about a Scott O'Brien's unit impacting games like I do now under Joe Judge. The Eagles punt block is a fundamental breakdown regardless of the injuries we have faced.
I will give him the muffed punts because of injuries, but the return TD and that punt block are indicative of the sharpness we have lost.
Am I being too harsh?
Now I am worried about specials teams than what the other team is doing on defense and offense.
Edit: Not to be canned, but getting O'Brien for pointers or assistance. It is an important phase of the game and as we have seen, you can lose a game with specials teams without the defense being given a chance.

You do realize that Belichick was a special teams coach (a damn good one) before becoming a Defensive Coach and then Head coach. Rest assured that he worked with Judge and Special Teams regarding the breakdowns.

That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if Geneo Grissom being inactive this week stemmed directly from the punt block since I am almost 100% sure that it was his failure to pick up Maragos that led to the blocked punt. On the play, Grissom doubled up the guy who was on Cardona and ignored Maragos.

I also noticed that there were some changes to the punt team including having Ninkovich out there. Not sure what the other changes were since it would have to include someone replacing Wilson on the wing since he was also inactive.

I'll re-watch the punts tomorrow and see if I can decipher the changes, but it will be hard since the camerawork was less than stellar tonight.
 
I imagine they are always evaluating coaches and players.
 
ANGRY MOB ASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSEEEEEEEEEMMMMMMMMBBBBBBBBLLLLLLLEEEEEEE!!!!!!!! Honestly you could easily say that its Judge's fault and it may be that he is prepping the players enough or something but the ST had been playing well before the last three games, I think it ends up just feeling bigger on ST when something goes wrong.
 
We're talking about 4 terrible plays, 2 of which were simply bad physical execution (trouble catching punts), and one other of which is being pinned on a single rookie error. That still leaves the return TD and "Why the heck was the rookie in there making the error", but it's not sure signs of an irredeemably bad coach.
 
Every time there's a loss, somebody has to lose their head. I know a lot of jobs are like this where you find a scapegoat and blame them for everything, but really, it's a bit ridiculous. I will never forget the calls to cut Gronk after he caused a fumble and fumbled another one in that Cleveland loss.

So let's look at the whole body of work for the entire season instead of the lowest point. Otherwise, yeah, cut Gronk (he also had 3 drops in that Browns loss, and a penalty too).

Patriots ST:

- 7th in touchback %
- 2nd in kickoff return average allowed
- 2nd in field goal % (1st place Lions are 17 for 17, while Patriots are 26 for 27)
- 1 of 8 teams to be perfect from the new XP distance (46 attempts significantly more than the other teams. Jets are next with 37, Packers next with 32).
- 32nd in kick return average
- 8th in punt return average
- 2nd in 20+ yard punt returns

The one area that is very murky is punting. The stats are pretty awful for this, a lot of cumulative and very few averages. For example, Allen is 18th in punt average and 20th in punt net average. But part of that may be attributed to field position. For example, 46% of Allen's punts have landed inside the 20. The league leader in net average, the Ravens, only have 37%. I have no idea where he ranks in the league because I'm not going to calculate this for 32 teams. NFL, you can do this so easily. Why?

Including the Eagles game, the punt return yards allowed would put us at 12th. But that only works out to 8.3 yards per attempt. Again, no average allowed stat by the NFL and not going to calculate it for 32 teams, but FWIW, 8.3 YPA would rank 18th in the league for returns. 4 of the top 5 teams allowed under 8 YPA, but it's also worth noting without that one return by Sproles, our average is 5.9 YPA. Now every play counts, but with only 27 returns total, we're talking about extremely small sample sizes here.

So I think you have to look back to last year. We were 12th in punt average and 12th in punt net average. But only 38% of Allen's punts landed inside the 20. And despite the TD allowed this year, our 8.3 YPA on punt returns allowed is better than last season's 9.2 YPA. Again, small sample sizes, but over the course of the season, our punt coverage has been better this season than last, although big plays get considerably more notice.

Judge should be evaluated. So should Josh. So should BB and Tom and everybody who plays. And yes, Judge should get help. As should Josh. As should BB and Tom and everybody else too. But to single him out after one bad game is ridiculous. Josh's play calling set up the punt situation to begin with. Tom made some really poor decisions. The defense struggled with the run game. The OL struggled all night. There was plenty of blame to go around that night. Focusing solely on Judge won't fix all of the things that went wrong.
 
NE puts a lot of resources into special teams. Whatever the issue, it's inexcusable.
 
its the injuries, Edelman is our top punt returner, than Amendola, th have both been hurt and of course, once Edelman went down, Amendola had to pick up more slack in the offense and it blew hooves the Pats to try and keep him healthy so he was taken off from returning punts.

Freeney, Ebner, and Bolden are all core special teams guys and they have all had to play more with the injuries.

I thought Ryan and the punt team had an excellent game last night. The Ghost is just pure $$$$$..

Once the Pat's get healthy, th special teams should be fine.
 
Meh, looked pretty good to me.
100% still feeling it, you could see on that catch by the goal line where he went to cut and just fell down very unceremoniously when he couldn't plant and explode. Then he got up gimpy. Definitely not completely healthy.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
ESPN Insider on Patriots AJ Brown Trade: New England Remains “Lead Contender”
Patriots Insider on Kayshon Boutte Trade: “I don’t know if it should happen”
TRANSCRIPT: Tom Brady’s Commencement Speech at Georgetown
Patriots News 05-17,  And Patriots’ Schedule Analysis
MORSE: 2026 Patriots Schedule, Win Projection and UDFA Bonuses
2026 Patriots Schedule Sets Up Tough Start In Vrabel’s Second Season
MORSE: Patriots Rookie Mini Camp and Signings
Patriots News 05-10, Patriots Rookie Minicamp Starts
MORSE: Way Too Early 53-man Roster Projection
Several Remaining Patriots Free Agents Still Seeking Homes
Back
Top