Discussion in 'The PatsFans.com Pub' started by fightingirish595, Dec 19, 2019.
What a fantastic movie...very entertaining. One of my favs along with New Hope, Empire Strikes Back and Force Awakens.
I think a big problem with the new trilogy is a lack of true respect for what has come before it. Fan service is great and I really enjoyed stuff like the 'Garbage will do' moment in TFA. But that's not the same as respecting what came before.
Some key aspects of the new trilogy make big deal parts of the OT and prequels feel utterly pointless now. And they didn't have to do it that way. I was ok with TFA being a 'retro' movie as Lucas put it because I thought they were setting the stage to build to something new an interesting. I didn't expect the 'new' to make major plotpoints in the previous movies irrelevant. Seeing where things went has ultimately dimmed my feelings about TFA somewhat, which is still my favorite of the 3 by far and a movie I like more, overall, than RoTJ (though nothing in any of the new movies touches Luke in the Throne Room.)
A lot of people have noted that Abrams tends to play it safe and while I did enjoy his new Star Trek movies and TFA a lot I'm beginning to see that now. Which is odd coming from a guy who was a big part of ushering in a new era of amazing quality TV with Lost.
Whatever, I'm still sad how dirty they did my boy
You’re comparing this to Empire Strike Back?
Spoke to Chief. He said this ain’t it.
Chief said this is it.
Chief said this is both it and not it. Chief is confused. Chief did mention that he believes that Disney should stop making women action heroes completely invincible ass kickers to overcompensate for the fact that they are women. Chief adds that it’s okay for women action heroes to get their asses handed to them every once in a while.
You're like the worst when it comes to losing your **** about 'forced diversity' dude. I love you but you gotta let the dames and non-crackers get some time on the screen too, mangalorian.
You might be confusing me with someone else. When it comes to on-screen heroes, I don’t mind the women and black dudes being the heroes. But like any other action character, I’d like to see them struggle from time to time for character development purposes. Hell, even Michael Bay did that in “Bad Boys” and “Bad Boys II,” as ****ty a director as he is. Angela Abar struggled mightily in “Watchmen” at times and the payoff was that much better.
Disney does not do that. Particularly with their female heroes. Disney loves making women heroes that are damn near unstoppable. Rey is just the most recent example and it played a big role in tanking this trilogy for me.
But, uh, yeah... the South will rise again.
By the way, speaking of Bay, 6 Underground is a fun watch as long as you go into it expecting mindless entertainment.
I'm the same. Coincidence or not- Gary Kurtz, George Lucas's producer was the only person who would stand up to Lucas and push back on some creative issues- Kurtz would push Lucas to be better, more realistic, more emotional. They clashed often.
He was fired prior to ROTJ, and you can see the production suffer because of that. Less emphasis on human stakes, on emotional investments. We got the cute, furry ewoks which were an obvious merchandise sell.
Everything else is a steep dropoff. The franchise just fell off a high cliff after ROTJ.
I HATE the Ewoks.
I do love Baby Yoda though.
Are we past the spoilers statute of limitations for this thread?
facts. Wonder Woman was a great film. And the new Nolan film with an African American lead looks amazing. I’m guessing very few people care about the race or gender of the lead character
I would guess anyone looking to avoid spoilers wouldn't be reading this thread.
I loved ROTJ as a kid but it really doesn't hold up. The only part worth watching is Luke/Vader/Emperor. The rest just seems like filler to meet the contractual obligations to Ford and Fisher.
Much of the emotional stakes that you felt from ESB is gone by then- that's the element that Gary Kurtz relentlessly fought for and wanted more emphasis on. The director, Irvin Kershner, also put an emphasis on it- sneaking lines into the shooting script, and changing things on the sly.
Kershner was my father's cousin, but I never got to meet him.
I had read all the spoilers on Reddit prior to seeing this movie. It's something I never do, but I expected to be wholesale disappointed, so I read them, and it seemed scattered and bombastic. As it turned out, that's exactly what this movie is. Don't get me wrong, scattered and crazy works sometimes (The Dark Knight), but not in this case. It's not as bad as TLJ, but also doesn't hold up to TFA mostly because the payoff isn't all that great.
Also, a personal nitpick that might be just me: Carrie Fisher's role in this is somewhat unnecessary and seemed more like an experiment in how to resurrect the dead for a film than a meaningful contribution. It was honestly distracting to me because it was too obvious.
My main issues with the film stem from plot, and one can sense they were trying to undo TLJ. It made for a shallow movie because of it.
Overall, the movie got a 6/10 from me. Just another movie, but it should have and could have been more.
1. Kylo Ren was the true last Skywalker. Rey hijacking the name at the end didn't sit well with me. It would have been cooler if she had said, "Yeah, I'm a Palpatine, and I'm going to change what that name stands for". I actually liked that she's a Palpatine, but they went and undid that coolness by having her running away from her heritage.
2. The Emperor's speech when baiting Rey into killing him was written for a child. It was like he was trying to convince her by saying "do the wrong thing. You know you reeeeeeeeally want to!" It would have been better if he had made a convincing case by deceiving her and saying "yeah, kill me, and rule as Empress. You can make it what you want." Appealing to her "good" side, but knowing that she'd become a sith. Even some audience members would maybe think it's worth the risk. The way it was written presents no dilemma, for her or the audience.
3. Finn and Poe didn't really have a lot to do in this film. A good way to know if you have superfluous characters is to imagine the story without them. If it still works, maybe they don't belong, or at least, not as main characters. I think their roles got lost in the sauce when JJ was trying to un**** the mistakes of TLJ.
4. FLEETS!!!11!!!1 So many fleets!! Where did they all come from? Where have they been in previous movies??
5. I didn't mind the spy twist, with homeboy betraying the First Order, but it wound up being only marginally important and could have been left out.
6. The whole Rey/Mary Sue thing has been beat to death, so I won't say more, except that I agree with the poor character development. That said, this is the best Daisy Ridley has been as an actor in the trilogy.
7. Satisfied, to a degree, with the Kylo Ren/Rey story arc, even JJ played it safe by having him step away from the dark side. Maybe it would have been cooler if they both found a way to the middle? I know that's anti-Star Wars, but I'm not a big Star Wars guy, so ehhh...
The music was good. Bout it.
I've been a life long fan. My poor mother took me to see the first one 11 times in the theater back 1978. I tell my kids that there were no DVDs, VHS or streams etc., or even cable, so once it was gone out of theaters, that was it.
(Maybe spoiler's below. Don't know how to make the button).
The new series has done everything they can to try and ruin the Original characters and make their accomplishment mean nothing. Especially this new one with bringing the perfectly dead emperor back. Return of the Jedi was a definitive ending and that story was over. They should've just made a new series with the new characters and not try to suggest that the whole Skywalker/Vader thing wasn't wrapped up.
The prequels were a good idea that was badly executed. The sequels were a bad idea from the start and probably couldn't have been good. I wish they never made them.
Honestly, it's my 12-year-old self who was angry/disappointed. Does that count?
$1 billion after only 3-4 weeks
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