REISS: Thornton Already Back at Work

[WTF!]

He weighed 183 pounds as a rookie... scouts literally weigh these guys at the combine and pro days... it's not an opinion.

He probably put on a few pounds from then to now. He's also 6'2" tall, he's not some shrimp.

I wouldn’t doubt if he is close to 190 now.

 

[Wozzy]

I wouldn’t doubt if he is close to 190 now.

I think we should also dispel the myth that skinny guys can't be strong. There's footage of Thornton squatting a lot of weight.

They don't need him to put on a bunch of weight and become a physical possession receiver who crashes into DB's and seeks out contact, they don't need him to become Deandre Hopkins. His role is to beat teams downfield, he does that with speed, length and route running... specifically vertical routes.

He'll never become Hopkins, Hopkins also can't run a 4.2 forty. We need Thornton to develop into a modern day version of David Patten. Hopefully he'll become something better, he has shown good instincts in the red zone. A player with his speed can burn opponents catching 2-3 balls a game, and by being too long and tall to guard in the end zone.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I'm pretty optimistic Thornton will have an impactful sophomore year.

As i've said earlier i'm throwing out 2022's offensive performance. Everyone gets a clean slate.

I know TT wasn't a world -beater last year but between the injury and that ****bag offensive system and leadership disaster, the fact that he did something last year is at least somewhat encouraging he can contribute more in 2023.

 

[Wozzy]

I see a lot to build on in a disaster of an offense in 2022...

 

[Real fan 02]

He weighed 183 pounds as a rookie... scouts literally weigh these guys at the combine and pro days... it's not an opinion.

He probably put on a few pounds from then to now. He's also 6'2" tall, he's not some shrimp.

Thornton will answer reports say he has bulked up.. this kid has so much potential.. he showed flashes in a dysfunctional offense.. sky's the limit for him with BOB we need him to pan out.. he's a key piece to be able to stress the defense

 

[Real fan 02]

I'm pretty optimistic Thornton will have an impactful sophomore year.

As i've said earlier i'm throwing out 2022's offensive performance. Everyone gets a clean slate.

I know TT wasn't a world -beater last year but between the injury and that ****bag offensive system and leadership disaster, the fact that he did something last year is at least somewhat encouraging he can contribute more in 2023.

@RobertWeathers exactly right, people seem to forget he missed time last season.. he pretty much was playing catch up.. had he been healthy heading into week 1 be would have been a huge difference maker on the outside.. if nothing else his speed is elite and will command respect from DBs.

 

[patfanken]

I see a lot to build on in a disaster of an offense in 2022...

A couple of comments.

PKing in his comments was talking about Adam Theilin who has been a VERY productive WR for the Vikings for many years, going to the Panthers this season at 33. Before we signed JuJu except for his age, I thought he might be a guy we might add. But THIS is what caught my eye when he in this blurb. Theilin barely saw the field on offense for TWO full years, not gaining 200yds in either season before he broke out for over 900 in season 3. It made me think that, you know, very few WR's have impact years right from the get go. MAYBE one or 2 a year out of the dozens that get selected. Remember Edelman was an overnight success 5 years in the making. So there IS a chance we can see Thornton become a very productive receiver for us over the next couple of years.

However that being said. Here is my comment of what I guess was the clip on Thornton's 2022 season that disturbs me.

We drafted the kid because he had some length and ran 4.2 40 with good hands. BUT I defy you to watch that clip again and point one ONE play were he showed any burst or quick twitch acceleration out of his breaks, OR gained any YAC. The most speed I saw on this clip was on his jet sweep TD in his 2nd game. Sorry but I can't get that 7.2 3cone out of my head.

Listen guy like Welker and Edelman were essentially 4.6 guys who were very quick out of their breaks and created separation. Christ one of the quickest guys I ever saw was Barry Sanders. no one could accelerate out of a break and get to full speed faster than him, BUT he was a 4.6 guy. Hell, the best time I could find for Jerry RIce coming out college was a 4.58. So it isn't necessary to have blinding speed to get open. You need to have blinding acceleration. Otherwise just set him out wide and run 9 routes until the DB dies of exhaustion..

SO based on a rookie year when I couldn't find any play where it looked like the DB couldn't keep up with him, showed me another gear, or he broke away from a defender using quickness out of a break, my expectations for Thornton remain low. If he can stay on the field for 15 or so games and gains 4-600 yds I'll be very happy. But as of THIS moment, I don't see any reason to believe that he's the kind of guy who can take the top off the defense or scare anyone week to week. I hope I'm wrong.

 

[Wozzy]

A couple of comments.

PKing in his comments was talking about Adam Theilin who has been a VERY productive WR for the Vikings for many years, going to the Panthers this season at 33. Before we signed JuJu except for his age, I thought he might be a guy we might add. But THIS is what caught my eye when he in this blurb. Theilin barely saw the field on offense for TWO full years, not gaining 200yds in either season before he broke out for over 900 in season 3. It made me think that, you know, very few WR's have impact years right from the get go. MAYBE one or 2 a year out of the dozens that get selected. Remember Edelman was an overnight success 5 years in the making. So there IS a chance we can see Thornton become a very productive receiver for us over the next couple of years.

However that being said. Here is my comment of what I guess was the clip on Thornton's 2022 season that disturbs me.

We drafted the kid because he had some length and ran 4.2 40 with good hands. BUT I defy you to watch that clip again and point one ONE play were he showed any burst or quick twitch acceleration out of his breaks, OR gained any YAC. The most speed I saw on this clip was on his jet sweep TD in his 2nd game. Sorry but I can't get that 7.2 3cone out of my head.

Listen guy like Welker and Edelman were essentially 4.6 guys who were very quick out of their breaks and created separation. Christ one of the quickest guys I ever saw was Barry Sanders. no one could accelerate out of a break and get to full speed faster than him, BUT he was a 4.6 guy. Hell, the best time I could find for Jerry RIce coming out college was a 4.58. So it isn't necessary to have blinding speed to get open. You need to have blinding acceleration. Otherwise just set him out wide and run 9 routes until the DB dies of exhaustion..

SO based on a rookie year when I couldn't find any play where it looked like the DB couldn't keep up with him, showed me another gear, or he broke away from a defender using quickness out of a break, my expectations for Thornton remain low. If he can stay on the field for 15 or so games and gains 4-600 yds I'll be very happy. But as of THIS moment, I don't see any reason to believe that he's the kind of guy who can take the top off the defense or scare anyone week to week. I hope I'm wrong.

He'll never be a quick in four directions WR who breaks the ankles of a defender. But he'll do his damage in a three tree route, all vertical routes. He is more David Patten than he is an Edelman or Welker.

Guys with lesser agility drills can still be dangerous and successful.

Ty Thornton: 7.25 Cone, 4.39 Shuttle
DK Metcalf: 7.23 Cone, 4.39 Shuttle

Nobody will ever accuse DK Metcalf of being a quick change of direction guy either, the Seahawks have Tyler Lockett for that job.

 

[rochrist]

I wish they both stayed as well... But that's the leverage patriots had over players at that time... never wanting to pay, So alot of our home grown playmaker's had to leave to get paid..

Ty law left the year before.. imagine we still had law and branch on the team we definitely win in 06 and it's law picking off Eli not assante dropping it..

In retrospect, Branch got vastly more than he was worth.

 

[rochrist]

He'll never be a quick in four directions WR who breaks the ankles of a defender. But he'll do his damage in a three tree route, all vertical routes. He is more David Patten than he is an Edelman or Welker.

Guys with lesser agility drills can still be dangerous and successful.

Ty Thornton: 7.25 Cone, 4.39 Shuttle
DK Metcalf: 7.23 Cone, 4.39 Shuttle

Nobody will ever accuse DK Metcalf of being a quick change of direction guy either, the Seahawks have Tyler Lockett for that job.

Randy Moss 7.19

 

[patfanken]

He'll never be a quick in four directions WR who breaks the ankles of a defender. But he'll do his damage in a three tree route, all vertical routes. He is more David Patten than he is an Edelman or Welker.

Guys with lesser agility drills can still be dangerous and successful.

Ty Thornton: 7.25 Cone, 4.39 Shuttle
DK Metcalf: 7.23 Cone, 4.39 Shuttle

Nobody will ever accuse DK Metcalf of being a quick change of direction guy either, the Seahawks have Tyler Lockett for that job.

But DK has 3 inches and 30-40 lbs on Thornton. How is his leaping ability. I only saw one catch where he had to go up for the ball, and he was wide open.

I'm not looking for Edelman type quickness, but you could see it from the start when he was just a PR. He almost ALWAYS made the first man miss. So forget about my thing with the 3 cone times. Look at the tape that YOU posted (thanks, btw) Did you see a single play where any of that 4.2 speed was evident. He looks slow even as he goes into his routes (at least the ones in that clip). Hopefully with a full season to learn the speed of the game and hopefully a healthy camp and comfortable with the semantics of the offense, we will see improvement in how fast he gets off the ball and in and out of his breaks.

BUT, Woz, the day I get excited about Tyquan Thornton, will be the day I see him actually SHOW some of the 4.2 speed he is SAID to possess. In the meantime. My hopes for this year of him is that he is a capable 4th or 5th receiver who can be a productive depth guy who can come in when someone is hurt or situationally in spread or bunch formations.

BTW- as an aside. I noticed, when doing some research on some draft prospect, there were a larger number than I expected that simply didn't do the 3 cone drill at all. I guess this is happening more often recently. I asked BCG about it, and he thought it was because it was the last drill of the day and some guys were too tired. That's like going to a job interview and not answering the last question asked of you, saying "sorry, but I already answered my quota of questions" At any rate it's more common than you think. When we were all hot and bothered about a potential Jerry Jeudy trade, I came to find HE never did a 3-cone drill at either the combine or his pro-day. BCG was very high on him though.

 

[EMpats]

A couple of comments.

PKing in his comments was talking about Adam Theilin who has been a VERY productive WR for the Vikings for many years, going to the Panthers this season at 33. Before we signed JuJu except for his age, I thought he might be a guy we might add. But THIS is what caught my eye when he in this blurb. Theilin barely saw the field on offense for TWO full years, not gaining 200yds in either season before he broke out for over 900 in season 3. It made me think that, you know, very few WR's have impact years right from the get go. MAYBE one or 2 a year out of the dozens that get selected. Remember Edelman was an overnight success 5 years in the making. So there IS a chance we can see Thornton become a very productive receiver for us over the next couple of years.

However that being said. Here is my comment of what I guess was the clip on Thornton's 2022 season that disturbs me.

We drafted the kid because he had some length and ran 4.2 40 with good hands. BUT I defy you to watch that clip again and point one ONE play were he showed any burst or quick twitch acceleration out of his breaks, OR gained any YAC. The most speed I saw on this clip was on his jet sweep TD in his 2nd game. Sorry but I can't get that 7.2 3cone out of my head.

Listen guy like Welker and Edelman were essentially 4.6 guys who were very quick out of their breaks and created separation. Christ one of the quickest guys I ever saw was Barry Sanders. no one could accelerate out of a break and get to full speed faster than him, BUT he was a 4.6 guy. Hell, the best time I could find for Jerry RIce coming out college was a 4.58. So it isn't necessary to have blinding speed to get open. You need to have blinding acceleration. Otherwise just set him out wide and run 9 routes until the DB dies of exhaustion..

SO based on a rookie year when I couldn't find any play where it looked like the DB couldn't keep up with him, showed me another gear, or he broke away from a defender using quickness out of a break, my expectations for Thornton remain low. If he can stay on the field for 15 or so games and gains 4-600 yds I'll be very happy. But as of THIS moment, I don't see any reason to believe that he's the kind of guy who can take the top off the defense or scare anyone week to week. I hope I'm wrong.

The first touchdown against Cleveland in the back of the end zone he absolutely exploded out of his break to create separation. He’ll never have Edelman change of direction but that’s not what they need. That play shows plenty of route running potential.

 

[Jim Beankie]

The first touchdown against Cleveland in the back of the end zone he absolutely exploded out of his break to create separation. He’ll never have Edelman change of direction but that’s not what they need. That play shows plenty of route running potential.

That was against a very speedy DB, as well (4.37). There was another clip from that game I can't find where on a GO it made him look like he was walking.

 

[Wozzy]

But DK has 3 inches and 30-40 lbs on Thornton. How is his leaping ability. I only saw one catch where he had to go up for the ball, and he was wide open.

I'm not looking for Edelman type quickness, but you could see it from the start when he was just a PR. He almost ALWAYS made the first man miss. So forget about my thing with the 3 cone times. Look at the tape that YOU posted (thanks, btw) Did you see a single play where any of that 4.2 speed was evident. He looks slow even as he goes into his routes (at least the ones in that clip). Hopefully with a full season to learn the speed of the game and hopefully a healthy camp and comfortable with the semantics of the offense, we will see improvement in how fast he gets off the ball and in and out of his breaks.

BUT, Woz, the day I get excited about Tyquan Thornton, will be the day I see him actually SHOW some of the 4.2 speed he is SAID to possess. In the meantime. My hopes for this year of him is that he is a capable 4th or 5th receiver who can be a productive depth guy who can come in when someone is hurt or situationally in spread or bunch formations.

BTW- as an aside. I noticed, when doing some research on some draft prospect, there were a larger number than I expected that simply didn't do the 3 cone drill at all. I guess this is happening more often recently. I asked BCG about it, and he thought it was because it was the last drill of the day and some guys were too tired. That's like going to a job interview and not answering the last question asked of you, saying "sorry, but I already answered my quota of questions" At any rate it's more common than you think. When we were all hot and bothered about a potential Jerry Jeudy trade, I came to find HE never did a 3-cone drill at either the combine or his pro-day. BCG was very high on him though.

3 inches? Try one inch, Metcalf is 6’3” and Thornton is 6’2.” Thornton also had a great 38.5” vertical leap. Jumping is not his problem and frankly he didn’t have to leap for much. He has really long arms and is almost a tenth of a second faster than Metcalf.

There are definitely some plays in those highlights where his speed was a factor. He is a strider who makes it look effortless, but you have to consider how fast he’s really moving. Desean Jackson is another burner who wasn’t quick in four directions, and he was substantially smaller than Thornton.

One thing, important thing to consider when holding these guys up in comparison… DK is the best in the entire league at what he does, at being a field stretcher. If Thornton becomes 2nd-10th best at that job he is still a very good player.

I think a lot of guys will skip certain events at the combine but they will run them at their pro days. It’s on their home turf, they can go through their regular routine. Real competitors will still go all out at the combine. But if you look back, for years big school guys from Alabama rarely worked out at the combine. Or they do partial workouts, sometimes even at their pro day. Many of these guys can only hurt their stock, not help it.

 

[PatsFan37]

I'm not by any means certain, but I thought during training camp he showed breakaway speed - and then not as much during the season.

A couple things to keep in mind: during TC, you'll piss off the coaches if you run a route with the wrong number of steps, or not flat enough, or with the wrong leverage, or any of a dozen mental errors. Do that in real games, esp if you cause a pick, you'll get benched for at least the rest of the game. Plus, he was coming back from a broken collarbone. All that's plenty to slow him down in his rookie year.

Call me an optimist, but I have a lot of hope for him in his 2nd year.

 

[SlowGettingUp]

The play here against the Raiders at 3:40 was all about his speed - got the defender all tangled up backpedaling and Thornton was able to easily break in at the top of his route:

 

[TheBeers]

TT has plenty of burst, if he didn't he wouldn't have a fast 40 time. I don't know that he can stop/start or make quick cuts.. but he showed several plays in that vid that he can get accelerate plenty.

 

[ahmed]

I stopped getting my hopes up for our WR picks. Hope I am proven wrong.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

I stopped getting my hopes up for our WR picks. Hope I am proven wrong.

Chad Jackson '23. This is the year.

Seriously... I would love a combination of Bill O'Brien and Big O'Line to come together to let Thornton get loose and let Jones look around for a second and actually find Thornton. That's the fun of the off-season, thinking how things could pan out. But who knows whether he's every anything more than a frightening 40 time. W/Ken's last post, I'll be looking for those burst moments starting in TC... my God that seems like a long time...

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

A couple of comments.

Sorry but I can't get that 7.2 3cone out of my head.

DK Metcalf had a 3cone of 7.38 sec. He turned out OK.