PatsFans.com - Mobile
PatsFans.com
Search

Question on improving Mac's arm strength

Current Patriots Twitter Feed:

BaconGrundleCandy

#1 Mac Jones fan
PatsFans.com Supporter
Sounds familiar. Some of us have been saying that exact same for over a year. Along with his arm strength / velocity improving with improved mechanics. And how he'll deal with direct pressure at times.

I like Mac but it's tough to have an honest conversation about him some times. Which sucks bc if he does improve it'll be weird ignoring the growth. That's part of fun.
 

Tunescribe

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
2019 Weekly Picks Winner
2021 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
There's nothing wrong with Mac's arm strength. The problem is simple. He needs time to get his timing perfect with his WR options

While Mac's arm strength does need improving -- re., driving the ball in cold weather/wind -- it's not the serious liability some are making it out to be. Many of his misfires this season (some ending up intercepted) were attributable to botched post-snap reads and miscommunication by BOTH Mac and the receivers. Timing problems resulting in the ball coming out a split-second late or going to the wrong place can be misinterpreted as lacking arm strength. He has great accuracy and only will get better with more timing practice plus strength training.
 

Deus Irae

PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club
PatsFans.com Supporter
Sounds familiar. Some of us have been saying that exact same for over a year. Along with his arm strength / velocity improving with improved mechanics. And how he'll deal with direct pressure at times.

I like Mac but it's tough to have an honest conversation about him some times. Which sucks bc if he does improve it'll be weird ignoring the growth. That's part of fun.

Absolutely. Even a quick look around the league shows that his arm is below average for a starting QB. But, as I've been saying from the beginning, his arm doesn't have to be the strongest in the league. It just has to be strong enough to make all the throws. And, hopefully, with some focused offseason work, he'll get enough strength built up that people will really start to see that happen.
 

jimnance

In the Starting Line-Up
This is kinda useless. His arm strength is obviously going to improve. He has the work ethic and desire to work on it. That execs remarks are pretty lame. Yes his arm is not that strong right now but hes just a rookie. Neither was Bradys his 1st season starting and that was after an entire year before in the nfl.
If the exec had just said his arm is weak but it can be made stronger then it makes sense. When was Bradys peak arm strength? 2014? Later? It hasnt fallen off much since then but it took him 10 years to reach that point. No reason jones cant make major strides. Its very fixable. How much can he improve? Who knows? But I'd bet hes one dude that will do evrrything he can to improve all aspects if his game.
But I would expect major improvement next season and we'll know whst we got in 3-4 years.
Therell never be another Brady. Not for a long time. But this guy has some similarities in his makeup. We'll see just how hard hes willing to work over the next few years. If hes even 75% as dedicated to his craft as TB12, we will have a very good qb in a few years
 

BigPeteG

Practice Squad Player
While Mac's arm strength does need improving -- re., driving the ball in cold weather/wind -- it's not the serious liability some are making it out to be. Many of his misfires this season (some ending up intercepted) were attributable to botched post-snap reads and miscommunication by BOTH Mac and the receivers. Timing problems resulting in the ball coming out a split-second late or going to the wrong place can be misinterpreted as lacking arm strength. He has great accuracy and only will get better with more timing practice plus strength training.

When you have more physical talent - you don't have to be as perfect on the mental side of things. A QB without a strong arm has less throws he can hit. The defense knows this and will scheme to funnel Mac's throws to particular spots. So a weaker arm makes is easier on the defense and harder on the entire offense.

Its not just about the throws you make a mistake on - its about the throws you don't take. And the plays you don't even design. When you have a strong armed QB you can design different plays that take advantage of that. So again it would be great if Mac could improve on this front.

I think its fair to say if his arm didn't improve at all - Patriots would draft a different QB. He is a young guy so they are probably counting on improvement. Just like with Josh Allen the Bills were counting on improvement with regards to the mental side of things. Pats are counting on physical improvement.

Let's hope he can do it. Because he actually does need it. Out routes - crossing routes - etc. Mac needs more zip on his low trajectory throws.
 

jimnance

In the Starting Line-Up
Sounds familiar. Some of us have been saying that exact same for over a year. Along with his arm strength / velocity improving with improved mechanics. And how he'll deal with direct pressure at times.

I like Mac but it's tough to have an honest conversation about him some times. Which sucks bc if he does improve it'll be weird ignoring the growth. That's part of fun.
BGC I agree with this but why is it tough to have an honest conversation about him? I think most of us know what his strengths and weaknesses are right now and all of us with even a shred of football acumen expect him to improve. I mean pretty much every nfl player, especially qbs improve dramatically over their 1st few years. Josh Allen sucked his rookie year. Mac was better than Allen his rookie year. The question obviously is how much will he improve? Nobody knows. But he seems to have the drive. I agree watching the growth is the fun part. It was more fun than any of us deserve to have watching the GOAT gradually morph into what he is over the years.
What none of us should be doing is saying " this is what he is and always will be"-thats absurd. And im including all the rookie qbs in this- i dont like the judgements make just on mac but on trevor Wilson fields lance as well. None of us have a clue how good any of rm will be.
Theyre all just clay right now. What they get molded into is up to them. All the physical talent in the world means jack if you dont have the fire in the belly like TB12 and JE11 had.
 

Tunescribe

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
2019 Weekly Picks Winner
2021 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
This is kinda useless. His arm strength is obviously going to improve. He has the work ethic and desire to work on it. That execs remarks are pretty lame. Yes his arm is not that strong right now but hes just a rookie. Neither was Bradys his 1st season starting and that was after an entire year before in the nfl.
If the exec had just said his arm is weak but it can be made stronger then it makes sense. When was Bradys peak arm strength? 2014? Later? It hasnt fallen off much since then but it took him 10 years to reach that point. No reason jones cant make major strides. Its very fixable. How much can he improve? Who knows? But I'd bet hes one dude that will do evrrything he can to improve all aspects if his game.
But I would expect major improvement next season and we'll know whst we got in 3-4 years.
Therell never be another Brady. Not for a long time. But this guy has some similarities in his makeup. We'll see just how hard hes willing to work over the next few years. If hes even 75% as dedicated to his craft as TB12, we will have a very good qb in a few years

The main reason that blurb is useless (I wouldn't even call it an "article") is the source isn't identified. People see "AFC exec" and assume it's someone of reliable authority. OK, most agree Mac needs to strengthen his arm but is it actually "weak" like this alleged exec claims? Yeah, "weak" enough to amass 3,800 yards with a 67.6 completion percentage and 15th-ranked 92.5 rating in his ROOKIE campaign. Gimme a break. And amazingly, this weakling didn't miss a single snap to injury through 18 games.
 
Last edited:

Deus Irae

PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club
PatsFans.com Supporter
This is kinda useless. His arm strength is obviously going to improve. He has the work ethic and desire to work on it. That execs remarks are pretty lame. Yes his arm is not that strong right now but hes just a rookie. Neither was Bradys his 1st season starting and that was after an entire year before in the nfl.
If the exec had just said his arm is weak but it can be made stronger then it makes sense. When was Bradys peak arm strength? 2014? Later? It hasnt fallen off much since then but it took him 10 years to reach that point. No reason jones cant make major strides. Its very fixable. How much can he improve? Who knows? But I'd bet hes one dude that will do evrrything he can to improve all aspects if his game.
But I would expect major improvement next season and we'll know whst we got in 3-4 years.
Therell never be another Brady. Not for a long time. But this guy has some similarities in his makeup. We'll see just how hard hes willing to work over the next few years. If hes even 75% as dedicated to his craft as TB12, we will have a very good qb in a few years

The Brady weak arm thing is, and always has been, inaccurate. And the executive's remarks are spot on, unless and until Jones' arm strength improves significantly enough that he can make all the throws, hopefully with power.


It is what it is.
 

BaconGrundleCandy

#1 Mac Jones fan
PatsFans.com Supporter
BGC I agree with this but why is it tough to have an honest conversation about him?
Honestly there's a lot of blaming Josh going around and it has been for a while now. And not just the village idiot. I've seen Mac throw an INT and posters question the play call lol. The play calling being "conservative" when Mac has the freedom to change plays. I mean I had a few people telling me before the draft he never under threw WRs. A lot of that stuff, people trying to protect Mac.

Obviously it's not everyone. Maybe I just need to stick to those posters that are rational and objective.
I think most of us know what his strengths and weaknesses are right now and all of us with even a shred of football acumen expect him to improve. I mean pretty much every nfl player, especially qbs improve dramatically over their 1st few years. Josh Allen sucked his rookie year. Mac was better than Allen his rookie year. The question obviously is how much will he improve? Nobody knows. But he seems to have the drive. I agree watching the growth is the fun part. It was more fun than any of us deserve to have watching the GOAT gradually morph into what he is over the years.
What none of us should be doing is saying " this is what he is and always will be"-thats absurd. And im including all the rookie qbs in this- i dont like the judgements make just on mac but on trevor Wilson fields lance as well. None of us have a clue how good any of rm will be.
Theyre all just clay right now. What they get molded into is up to them. All the physical talent in the world means jack if you dont have the fire in the belly like TB12 and JE11 had.
I think if there's a big jump we see it next year. Usually it's year two, sometimes year 3 but this isn't the ordinary fixer upper most rookies are playing for. Even of there are obvious upgrades to be had.

I think we see a new body on him and noticeable improvements with his arm. He was a little slow and late post snap which is another biggie i want to see him improve on.

Also agree about waiting to make judgements on young players. Sometimes you can tell but most rookies struggle, all positions. You have to have patience. You'll never develop prospects and that rubs off on others. It's like some of these owners from a business background. No patience, new coach every few years. No accountability.
 

jimnance

In the Starting Line-Up
The Brady weak arm thing is, and always has been, inaccurate. And the executive's remarks are spot on, unless and until Jones' arm strength improves significantly enough that he can make all the throws, hopefully with power.


It is what it is.
The execs remarks are anything but spot on.
Hes not saying anything we dont already know. But hes implying it will never change. Thats ridiculous.
More like it is what it isn't
 

jimnance

In the Starting Line-Up
Obviously it's not everyone. Maybe I just need to stick to those posters that are rational and objective.
That's something I try to do but every once in a while someone posts something stupid that in a moment of weakness you respond to.
But I agree, theres some here who do nothing but try to protect mac, blaming others for what is clearly on him and theres some who do nothing but take potshots at him and dont take into account hes a rookie.
Both extremes are useless, just like both extremes on the stupid Brady vs.Belichick are useless.
But I think theres plenty of objective,knowledgeable posters here who dont have an agenda. You're one and theres plenty more. Some of these might slant a little in one way or another so I like reading all of em including those that may have a different opinion.,as long as its a well-informed opinion and not someone with an ax to grind. Or a dead horse to beat.
 

‘Mondre

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
It’s important that even if he can improve on that, which require time that could be focused on other areas, it doesn’t come at the expense of other development opportunities… or at the expense of him LEARNING where he can improve.

i do feel that as Brady ascended to being the goat with his body, health, and strategy… he did so with absolutely zero pressure on his position/status as “the guy”. He had world class defenses and coaching too. Not sure Mac will have that in the next few years.

mind you, parcels and bb built a contender with or without him in the 90s/early 00s… we don’t have milloy, law, hell even branch or brown right now. We’re average, and SHEDDING talent and experience next year too, given that ht, dmac, jc, COLLINS, vannoy might go. That’s years on top of years of confidence and years of (even if declining) SKILL.

macs journey will be more uphill and with less talent for himself and teammates.
 
Last edited:

jimnance

In the Starting Line-Up
It’s important that even if he can improve on that, which require time that could be focused on other areas, it doesn’t come at the expense of other development opportunities… or at the expense of him LEARNING where he can improve.
From what ive seen/heard of his makeup, I think he'll work on everything.
But in the offseason he can really focus on improving his strength and conditioning, plus his mechanics. All the while watching a ton of film. Without having to focus each week on an upcoming opponent.
We should see improvement in every aspect of his game next year. Not saying perfect, it takes years for qbs especially to reach their ceilings .
But if we don't see significant improvement, next year,then we got a problem. I think we will.
 

Deus Irae

PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club
PatsFans.com Supporter
The execs remarks are anything but spot on.
Hes not saying anything we dont already know. But hes implying it will never change. Thats ridiculous.
More like it is what it isn't

If he's not saying anything we don't know, then he's spot on. You're white knighting an admittedly lost cause, and to no purpose.


Jones will either achieve sufficient arm strength improvement, or he won't. Not all QBs do.
 

SteveKiner

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
The Brady weak arm thing is, and always has been, inaccurate. And the executive's remarks are spot on, unless and until Jones' arm strength improves significantly enough that he can make all the throws, hopefully with power.


It is what it is.
Appears that these were incorrect in some ways, but these were the thoughts on Brady coming out.

1. Scouting report
Notes: Baseball catcher and football quarterback in high school who was drafted by the Montreal Expos in the 18th round of the June 1995 baseball draft. Opted for football and redshirted at Michigan in '95. Saw limited action in '96 and '97 and started the past two years. Completed 3 of 5 passes for 26 yards, no touchdowns and one interception in '96, 12-15-103-0-0 in '97, 214-350-2,636-15-12 in '98 and 180-295-2,216-16-6 in '99, when he often shared time with super sophomore Drew Henson. Went all the way against Alabama in the Orange Bowl and completed 34-46-369-4. Unlike many Michigan quarterbacks, Brady is a pocket-type passer who plays best in a dropback-type system.

Tom Brady Positives: Good height to see the field. Very poised and composed. Smart and alert. Can read coverages. Good accuracy and touch. Produces in big spots and in big games. Has some Brian Griese in him and is a gamer. Generally plays within himself. Team leader.

Negatives: Poor build. Very skinny and narrow. Ended the '99 season weighing 195 pounds and still looks like a rail at 211. Looks a little frail and lacks great physical stature and strength. Can get pushed down more easily than you'd like. Lacks mobility and ability to avoid the rush. Lacks a really strong arm. Can't drive the ball down the field and does not throw a really tight spiral. System-type player who can get exposed if he must ad-lib and do things on his own.

2. Arm Strength: Initially thought to be Brady’s weakness, especially when entering the NFL

3.Here are comments on Brady from five talent evaluators leading up to the 2000 NFL draft:
Scout:
Awful. Not even on my board. Weak. He’ll make somebody a good husband or a good medical salesman.
Scout II: Has a quick, (former Michigan QB Brian) Griese-type release.
Quarterback coach: Backup. Could be a #2 in this league for a long time. Has the size but not enough arm.
Offensive coordinator:
More instinctive than (Michigan State QB Bill) Burke. Makes better decisions, makes more plays.
General manager: Like him. Just wish he was a better athlete.
4.

1642725837073.png

5. From Kiper

Pros:

  • Smart
  • Big-game signal-caller
  • Efficient
  • Stands tall in the pocket and doesn't get nervous
  • Works through his progressions well and doesn't try to perform beyond his capability
  • Brady is accurate and throws a catchable ball and knows when to take some heat off the ball when he throws it

Cons:

  • Lacks mobility
  • Could have problems if forced to throw the football down the field
  • Does not have the total package of skills for an NFL quarterback
  • Ran a 5.24 40-yard dash
  • Had a 24.5 inch vertical jump
 

Deus Irae

PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club
PatsFans.com Supporter
Appears that these were incorrect in some ways, but these were the thoughts on Brady coming out.

1. Scouting report
Notes: Baseball catcher and football quarterback in high school who was drafted by the Montreal Expos in the 18th round of the June 1995 baseball draft. Opted for football and redshirted at Michigan in '95. Saw limited action in '96 and '97 and started the past two years. Completed 3 of 5 passes for 26 yards, no touchdowns and one interception in '96, 12-15-103-0-0 in '97, 214-350-2,636-15-12 in '98 and 180-295-2,216-16-6 in '99, when he often shared time with super sophomore Drew Henson. Went all the way against Alabama in the Orange Bowl and completed 34-46-369-4. Unlike many Michigan quarterbacks, Brady is a pocket-type passer who plays best in a dropback-type system.

Tom Brady Positives: Good height to see the field. Very poised and composed. Smart and alert. Can read coverages. Good accuracy and touch. Produces in big spots and in big games. Has some Brian Griese in him and is a gamer. Generally plays within himself. Team leader.

Negatives: Poor build. Very skinny and narrow. Ended the '99 season weighing 195 pounds and still looks like a rail at 211. Looks a little frail and lacks great physical stature and strength. Can get pushed down more easily than you'd like. Lacks mobility and ability to avoid the rush. Lacks a really strong arm. Can't drive the ball down the field and does not throw a really tight spiral. System-type player who can get exposed if he must ad-lib and do things on his own.

2. Arm Strength: Initially thought to be Brady’s weakness, especially when entering the NFL

3.Here are comments on Brady from five talent evaluators leading up to the 2000 NFL draft:
Scout:
Awful. Not even on my board. Weak. He’ll make somebody a good husband or a good medical salesman.
Scout II: Has a quick, (former Michigan QB Brian) Griese-type release.
Quarterback coach: Backup. Could be a #2 in this league for a long time. Has the size but not enough arm.
Offensive coordinator:
More instinctive than (Michigan State QB Bill) Burke. Makes better decisions, makes more plays.
General manager: Like him. Just wish he was a better athlete.
4.

View attachment 40213

5. From Kiper

Pros:

  • Smart
  • Big-game signal-caller
  • Efficient
  • Stands tall in the pocket and doesn't get nervous
  • Works through his progressions well and doesn't try to perform beyond his capability
  • Brady is accurate and throws a catchable ball and knows when to take some heat off the ball when he throws it

Cons:

  • Lacks mobility
  • Could have problems if forced to throw the football down the field
  • Does not have the total package of skills for an NFL quarterback
  • Ran a 5.24 40-yard dash
  • Had a 24.5 inch vertical jump

Yes, we've talked about them understating his arm from day one. But there's a difference between "lacks a really strong arm" and "Has a weak arm".

One is Derek Carr. The other is Chad Pennington after his first shoulder injury.
 

‘Mondre

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
From what ive seen/heard of his makeup, I think he'll work on everything.
But in the offseason he can really focus on improving his strength and conditioning, plus his mechanics. All the while watching a ton of film. Without having to focus each week on an upcoming opponent.
We should see improvement in every aspect of his game next year. Not saying perfect, it takes years for qbs especially to reach their ceilings .
But if we don't see significant improvement, next year,then we got a problem. I think we will.
See that sounds like spreading it thin. I hope not, but it’s only a few months then you’re back in the season.
 

Top