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Question For/About Libertarians

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Mrs.PatsFanInVa, Jun 12, 2014.

  1. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Just responding to your humans are emotional creatures ... yes they are.
    Too much liberalism or too much libertarianism is not the answer in regards to government IMO.

    too much government can lead to depression ... not enough of it can lead to chaos and greed - either way it will be the weak that suffer the most. Good government should find a balance.
     
  2. Nunchucks

    Nunchucks Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    I suppose, I was not explicit enough. I meant that the government has a very important role to play in regulating the market, because greed, fear, love...emotion...play a large role and people often do not make money decisions with their best interests in mind...which, defeats the idea that the free market is self-regulating.

    We need a safety net of course, because people do not make good decisions...the best way to get people to be productive, that is a question we have not found an answer to....although, we KNOW FOR SURE that withdrawing the safety net does not work.
     
  3. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yes I believe we need government ... I have some libertarian in me - more towards state's rights ... but logically it is inane to think we do not need government. A great recent example would be the recent crash with the derivative craziness. I think the government gives away a bit too much and creates dependency but I'm somewhere left of center on that issue - we have many that need it.

    Off to soccer practice ... be back later.
     
  4. Bobsyouruncle

    Bobsyouruncle In the Starting Line-Up

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    So basically people are too stupid to decide for themselves so they must be told what to do by who? Other people who also have greed, fear, love, and emotion. This is an argument for a dictator.

    We don't need an answer to how to make people productive. The U.S. Is not a ship where the captain must whip the crew into shape. If some people are less productive or non-productive that is their choice, as are the economic consequences.
     
  5. SalemPats

    SalemPats In the Starting Line-Up

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    I think we can all agree that this right here is a big problem.
     
  6. Snake Eyes

    Snake Eyes Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Is the govt not composed of people? Are they Vulcans that are immune from normal human failings?
     
  7. Bobsyouruncle

    Bobsyouruncle In the Starting Line-Up

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    Not true, not even logical because social service programs exist everywhere including middle class rural America. Libertarians are not "for" anybody. The idea that you have to be "for" a certain group is a progressive one. Libertarians see the governments role to protect liberty- for everyone. Most libertarians see a governments role to be similar to the founders ideas in the constitution. Liberals used to support this, but after they went off into crazy authoritarian land while still calling themselves liberals a new term had to be created to distinguish between the two.

     
  8. iapatsfan

    iapatsfan In the Starting Line-Up

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    Nunchucks, post: 3842489, member: 9568"]
    Do government officials operate on greed? Are government officials immune to "greed, fear, love...emotion", or do they make decisions based on self interest just as much (if not more) as private citizens? All you are doing by creating these bureaucracies is combining the same flaws we all possess with absolute power. Not a smart move.

    Go ahead and provide a "safety net" (my least favorite cliche of all time) then - just don't force everybody else to contribute to your beloved "safety nets". If people want to contribute, they will.[/QUOTE]
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2014
  9. Bobsyouruncle

    Bobsyouruncle In the Starting Line-Up

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    Why? What's so special about today? Even today the wealthiest countries are those who are closest to free markets. Those with planned markets are the most authoritarian.

    Richard Feynman
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2014
  10. iapatsfan

    iapatsfan In the Starting Line-Up

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    Not enough government leads to chaos and greed??? Very Thomas Hobbes of you. He also believed people are in a constant state of conflict, and they need an all-powerful bureaucracy or "Leviathan" to keep them in line. I disagree.
     
  11. SB39

    SB39 In the Starting Line-Up

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    "Radio show"? Some nut posts his rants to YouTube, and you call that a "radio show"?

    YouTube =/= Radio

    For someone always lecturing others about truth and honesty, you sure do seem to have little more than a tenuous grasp on those concepts yourself.
     
  12. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    His show has been available in a variety of media.

     
  13. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Oh...and by the way....This "nut" as you describe him ran for congress in 2010 and was endorsed by none other than Ron Paul and the Republican Liberty Caucus.
     
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  14. SB39

    SB39 In the Starting Line-Up

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    Key words: Has been. Right now he has nothing but a website, a self-generated podcast and YouTube, which contradicts your earlier statement "that he has a radio show and a following."

    If this guy has a radio show then I am a highly acclaimed, Pulitzer prize winning, published author based on my posts in this forum.
     
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  15. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    I disagree. The federal government's reach goes further than it has any point in our history I believe. Be it by way of spying, forms of taxation, social and educational programs, size and scope of the military, you name it. State's are less autonomous now than they were in generations prior.
     
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  16. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club

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    Because it's been determined that you have "enough"! :D

    I wonder who does the determining around here?
     
  17. chicowalker

    chicowalker Pro Bowl Player

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    Libertarian politics also includes limited foreign involvement and pretty "liberal" views on immigration and the border, marijuana / drug legalization, gay marriage, mandatory minimums, police misbehavior and militarization, asset forfeiture laws and any number of other positions that are generally considered liberal and are hardly the realm of "middle class rural America." It's about individual rights.

    (and no, not pure free market, though closer to it than either major party)
     
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  18. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm not sure I quite follow here.
     
  19. everlong

    everlong Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    It will never happen but I wish the stock market went the way of the dinosaurs. There's just too much corruption even with government intervention. Have the auditors are on the take.

    In general the government is way too involved with massaging the economy, bailing out companies, setting up and enabling generational welfare. Government has become too big and as it grows our civil liberties continue to shrink.
     
  20. Nikolai

    Nikolai Football Atheist PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I hold fairly libertarian positions on a variety of issues, and most in here have nailed it; this guy is a nut job.

    As for some of the "observations" in this thread, it's just the same old finger pointing you always see with people who don't understand the subject matter. You get Dems calling Pubs fascists, Pubs calling Dems communists, and both sides calling libertarians anarchists, while libertarians call Pubs and Dems autocrats. Empty talk without basis in fact...and I give it my attention accordingly.

    iapatsfan actually brings up an interesting, and oft overlooked, take on the word "liberal". In most societies that have had autocratic governments in the recent past, the term "liberal" is reflective of levels of liberty, not left wing politics. Sometimes, if I've had my head buried in Middle Eastern politics for long periods of time, it's weird to come back and see left wing policies being labeled liberal, or to see conservatives throw the word around as if it's a curse word.
     
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