Pats wanted Stewart Bradley? [merged]

[cstjohn17]

Re: Bradley and Rogers not up to the challenge.

Time will tell if Rogers makes anything other than the Pats PS. And I'll keep an eye on Bradley. I know a lot of you guys like Bradley and maybe a couple of you have watched him for years as a Cornhusker, but if you objectively try to project him into the Pats defense, he begins to look a lot like TBC and we know that the TBC types don't work.

To answer an earlier question, look at the Pats secondary when TBC was in the game. They are double rotating on his side. This is done because BB has pared down a lot of the coverage responsibilities for TBC. Of course opposing teams just ran at TBC and it basically negated all the clever scheming.

I am hearing a lot of TBC bashing, I don't want to put him in Canton but as a backup and special teamer I thought he served his role and even managed to get 5+ sacks. I have no doubt that his responsiblities were paired down in coverage, this is to be expected for most DE/OLB conversions.

As far as getting run over they only game that stands out to me was San Diego, and they ran over a lot of teams. TBC was not alone, Seymour was driven back constantly by McNeil (6'7, 337), Bruschi was getting destroyed by their TE Manumaleuna (really just a OT with a TE number, 6'2, 288), throw in a FB like Neal and a runner like LT and it becomes a very effective power running attack (best in the NFL by far). On several of the plays TBC set the edge but Seymour or Bruschi couldn't get over to close the hole before LT (top 5 runner of all time) shot right through. And the screen passes were just scary, our LBs were 2 yards away at the start and 20 yards away at the end of the play (most of the screens were to Vrabels side).

What other games did TBC get run over in?

Against Indy it was strategic decision to play Vrabel outside (better pass rush) and Alexander inside (for... ummm... better coverage of the TE? how did that workout?). I don't think it had anything to do with TBCs ability to stop the run, Indy and SD are completely different offenses and it was a gameplan decision.

If Bruschi plays SILB in 2007 we should expect to see teams running right at him. Smart teams like Indy have been picking on him even when he lines up at WILB. Colvin is not exactly great at setting the edge either but a healthy Seymour makes a huge difference.

Personally I was hoping to see Bradley at SILB with some potential to lineup outside if necessary. He may not have been the true run stopper like Ted Johnson but may have had potential to play on all 3 down unlike Seau or TJ.

But the Patriots drafting a first day LB is like the great white elephant, we have heard it is possible and it may exist but no one has ever seen one to prove it.

 

[patpatriot]

Re: Bradley and Rogers not up to the challenge.

To answer an earlier question, look at the Pats secondary when TBC was in the game. They are double rotating on his side. This is done because BB has pared down a lot of the coverage responsibilities for TBC. Of course opposing teams just ran at TBC and it basically negated all the clever scheming.

Ochmed,

Does "double rotating" mean that *both* safties are picking up men (or zones) to cover on TBC's side of the field? So your assesment is that TBC was strictly a 3rd and long situational pass rusher?

 

[bucky]

Re: Anybody else struggling with this Stewart Bradley tidbit?

Let me try to address your points 1 at a time,

You are making an assumption that the Patriots would have offered 3 picks to Jacksonville. Maybe the Pats didn't believe that Bradley was worth 3 picks.

Maybe you're right. But even picks 91 & 180 (3rd and early 6th) are worth more than 101, 166 and 202. In any case, if the Pats felt Bradley was enough to groan over, they had enough picks (a comp pick in the 5th and 2 more in the 6th) to give up 2 6th rounders and not feel a hole in their draft.

And, yes, maybe they were rebuffed because you don't know when the trade by Baltimore with Jax was actually made. I'm not talking about announced. I am talking about made.

Also, the Pats may not have wanted to trade with Jacksonville. There may be some animosity about the comments that Del Rio made. Or, there could be animosity towards the Patriots on the part of the Jaguars. Again, its why I said they could have been rebuffed.

This may be your best guess - that Jax passed up a better trade either because they made the trade too early, or didn't want to deal with the Pats because of some childish pouting. Either way, they screwed themselves without having any way of knowing whether they were screwing the Pats. Luckily for them, they did.

 

[BelichickFan]

Re: Anybody else struggling with this Stewart Bradley tidbit?

BTW, a groan doesn't have to be one of severe depression. It could be. Equally possible, they weren't thrilled about Bradley but had decided to go that route . . . when the guy you're going to take goes ahead of you, a groan is still a reasonable response even if it's not the loss of someone you REALLY want. I could easily see them choosing to go with Bradley, groaning when he, their first choice, goes but, yet, not being that excited about him that he was worth trading up for.

 

[patfanken]

Re: Anybody else struggling with this Stewart Bradley tidbit?

I think a better question would be to ask why they wouldn't take a shot a Brandon Siler with one of the myriad 6th round picks they essentially wasted on OLmen they don't need

 

[PonyExpress]

Re: Anybody else struggling with this Stewart Bradley tidbit?

As I understand it, the knee tendon which Siler injured in the South Carolina game may require surgery, which would force him to miss his rookie year. That is one possible explanation. Another is that Siler carries himself like his mentor Ray Lewis with coaches and teammates, which can be irritating when the player doesn't actually play like Ray Lewis.

 

[patsfan55]

Re: Bradley and Rogers not up to the challenge.

Colvin is not exactly great at setting the edge either
.

to say the absolute least

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Bradley and Rogers not up to the challenge.

Time will tell if Rogers makes anything other than the Pats PS. And I'll keep an eye on Bradley. I know a lot of you guys like Bradley and maybe a couple of you have watched him for years as a Cornhusker, but if you objectively try to project him into the Pats defense, he begins to look a lot like TBC and we know that the TBC types don't work.

To answer an earlier question, look at the Pats secondary when TBC was in the game. They are double rotating on his side. This is done because BB has pared down a lot of the coverage responsibilities for TBC. Of course opposing teams just ran at TBC and it basically negated all the clever scheming.

Where the hell do you get that he projects like TBC? Long before the draft, he was being projected as a MIKE VRABEL type player. NOT a pure pass rusher who was garbage against the run. Which was TBC.

Sorry, but you continue to be way off on this.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Anybody else struggling with this Stewart Bradley tidbit?

I think a better question would be to ask why they wouldn't take a shot a Brandon Siler with one of the myriad 6th round picks they essentially wasted on OLmen they don't need

PFK -
Who says they don't need O-linemen? I might agree that they don't need a back-up center, but Elgin was a 7th round pick, not a 6th.

As for Hillard and Oldenburg, they are both OTs. OT IS an issue since the Pats only had 4 on the roster. Of the 4, O'Callaghan is a big injury risk. I honestly feel he's one concussion away from hanging it up after the 2 he had last year that basically ended his season. Britt hasn't shown he's anything special with O'Callaghan outplaying him in TC last year. Kaczur is showing to be a good swing tackle, but it remains to be seen how he plays this year. Also, Kaczur will be 28 by the time the season starts. Light is 29. So, adding 2 players who can push the guys in front of them is not a bad thing.

Now, as for Siler, they obviously felt that there was something major wrong with him. They did interview him and they obviously took him off their board. I believe that people said that Siler was arrogant and refused to take coaching very well. Lets also remember that he played for Urban Meyer and Meyer might have been down on him as well.

 

[Warren94]

Re: Anybody else struggling with this Stewart Bradley tidbit?

Hillard is out of shape and Oldenberg is practice squad. I definitely agree with the depth. Hopefully O'Callaghan can win the RT spot.

or just draft Long out of Michigan next year

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Anybody else struggling with this Stewart Bradley tidbit?

Hillard is out of shape and Oldenberg is practice squad. I definitely agree with the depth. Hopefully O'Callaghan can win the RT spot.

or just draft Long out of Michigan next year

Hillard admitted to not being where he should be. And nerves can cause a person to puke, leading to dehydration. And that will get a person onto the sidelines in a hurry because of the death of Korey Stringer and the recent deaths at the high school and college levels recently.

However, Hillard DID bounce back and participate in practice in its entirety today. So that is a plus.

 

[Brady-To-Branch]

Re: Anybody else struggling with this Stewart Bradley tidbit?

I like Bradley as a prospect, but I'm both happy and relieved that the Pats wound up with Meriweather. They desperately needed help at FS.

This was a weak draft overall and seeing what was available at #60, the Welker deal looks a lot better.

 

[captain stone]

Re: Anybody else struggling with this Stewart Bradley tidbit?

I think a better question would be to ask why they wouldn't take a shot a Brandon Siler with one of the myriad 6th round picks they essentially wasted on OLmen they don't need

I think that's one of the best questions to ask regarding this entire, hair-pullingly frustrating, jaw-droppingly incompetant, blood-boilingly arrogant, franchise-risking draft weekends in NFL history.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Anybody else struggling with this Stewart Bradley tidbit?

I think that's one of the best questions to ask regarding this entire, hair-pullingly frustrating, jaw-droppingly incompetant, blood-boilingly arrogant, franchise-risking draft weekends in NFL history.

Hmmm... Can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not.

But, things to consider aobut Siler.

1) He played for Urban Meyer. Meyer's opinion is one valued by Belichick.
2) Belichick and Co. did work him out twice.
3) Siler is reported to be arrogant and no willing to take instructions from coaches. One tidbit I saw was that Siler likens himself to Ray Lewis, only Siler doesn't have half the ability.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Anybody else struggling with this Stewart Bradley tidbit?

I like Bradley as a prospect, but I'm both happy and relieved that the Pats wound up with Meriweather. They desperately needed help at FS.

This was a weak draft overall and seeing what was available at #60, the Welker deal looks a lot better.

I honestly don't believe that the Pats desperately needed help at FS. Yes, they needed help, but they were not desperate about it, otherwise they would have moved up high to get him or to get Landry.

I like the Welker deal alot.

I just wish the Pats could have moved up to get Bradley instead of him ending up with the Iggles.

 

[Brady-To-Branch]

Re: Anybody else struggling with this Stewart Bradley tidbit?

I honestly don't believe that the Pats desperately needed help at FS. Yes, they needed help, but they were not desperate about it, otherwise they would have moved up high to get him or to get Landry.

It was a strong draft for safeties, why trade up? Landry is fillet mignon, but prime rib is good too. As for being desperate, who was playing FS at the end of the Indy game? Hawkins is over 30 and before getting injured at Indy, he was giving up too many completions. There is no basis for optimism regarding Eugene Wilson. The last two years, when not injured, he's been abysmal. He played like a poor man's Tebucky Jones: took bad angles to the ball, missed tackles, and allowed too many 3rd down completions. When a FS screws up, it's usually costly.

Meriweather was the last remaining top tier safety on the board and if we didn't get him, FS would have been shaky at best. Drafting Meriweather could be the best of all the offseason moves. I like this kid.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Anybody else struggling with this Stewart Bradley tidbit?

It was a strong draft for safeties, why trade up? Landry is fillet mignon, but prime rib is good too. As for being desperate, who was playing FS at the end of the Indy game? Hawkins is over 30 and before getting injured at Indy, he was giving up too many completions. There is no basis for optimism regarding Eugene Wilson. The last two years, when not injured, he's been abysmal. He played like a poor man's Tebucky Jones: took bad angles to the ball, missed tackles, and allowed too many 3rd down completions. When a FS screws up, it's usually costly.

Meriweather was the last remaining top tier safety on the board and if we didn't get him, FS would have been shaky at best. Drafting Meriweather could be the best of all the offseason moves. I like this kid.

Please name me a team that is 3 deep with starters at any single position. In other words, they have 2 starting caliber players sitting on the bench. I think you'd be hard-pressed to find that.

Again, I don't believe the Pats were desperate. If they were desperate, they would have traded up to get Meriweather or Landry. Nothing you said points to the contrary. Just because it was "a deep draft at safety" doesn't mean they wouldn't trade up. IMEO, everything you said points to the idea that they SHOULD have traded up if they were desperate because, as you said, Meriweather was the "last remaing top-tier safety". Which, btw, I think is utter BS because Eric Weddle was still on the board and Weddle was rated very highly as well. He just didn't get the publicity of Meriweather, Griffin and Landry.

Now, as for Wilson, I'm sorry but I believe youare wrong. There IS a basis for optimism for Wilson. All you have to do is look at how he played as a rookie and how he played in 2004. I don't agree that his play was ABYSMAL in 2005 and 2006. I believe that he was gunshy in 2005 after breaking his arm in the previous SB. And because he was gunshy, he wasn't hitting like normal. He was tentative, but getting better Then the Pats lost Harrison, Poole, Gay, Starks (not a big loss), Scott and Sanders (though not to the IR) to injury in a matter of weeks. The Pats tried how many people opposite Samuel before Hobbs and Hawkins settled in? And by then, Wilson was also out... You can't fully blame Wilson for that fiasco. Especially with the front 7 not beinig solid with Bruschi being out, Vrabel learning the ILB position, Seymour missing time, and the Beisel/Brown fiasco in the middle...

As for 2006, Wilson was playing better and again, getting comfortable before he went down again. I have cautious optimism that he will return to the field at the level he was at prior to his arm injury in the SB. If he's the starting FS, great. If not, he's a great option off the bench for FS or CB.

 

[Brady-To-Branch]

Re: Anybody else struggling with this Stewart Bradley tidbit?

Please name me a team that is 3 deep with starters at any single position. In other words, they have 2 starting caliber players sitting on the bench. I think you'd be hard-pressed to find that.

AT FS? Who are they? Hawkins is an aging journeyman. RH is in is mid-30s and has had 2 knee injuries and a shoulder injury in his last 2 years. Besides, RH is more of a SS these days. Wilson?

Again, I don't believe the Pats were desperate. If they were desperate, they would have traded up to get Meriweather or Landry. Nothing you said points to the contrary. Just because it was "a deep draft at safety" doesn't mean they wouldn't trade up. IMEO, everything you said points to the idea that they SHOULD have traded up if they were desperate because, as you said, Meriweather was the "last remaing top-tier safety". Which, btw, I think is utter BS because Eric Weddle was still on the board and Weddle was rated very highly as well. He just didn't get the publicity of Meriweather, Griffin and Landry.

The Pats read the draft. They have their own draft boards and I'm sure that they knew which positions were strong or not. A deep FS draft means that the team felt confident that one would drop to them at #24. I'm sure they didn't expect Tennessee to take Griffin like they did and maybe they tried to trade up but couldn't. W/o a #2 they were lacking in ammunition. Who knows?

IMO, Weddle was overrated and SD overpaid to get him.

Now, as for Wilson, I'm sorry but I believe youare wrong. There IS a basis for optimism for Wilson. All you have to do is look at how he played as a rookie and how he played in 2004. I don't agree that his play was ABYSMAL in 2005 and 2006. I believe that he was gunshy in 2005 after breaking his arm in the previous SB. And because he was gunshy, he wasn't hitting like normal. He was tentative, but getting better Then the Pats lost Harrison, Poole, Gay, Starks (not a big loss), Scott and Sanders (though not to the IR) to injury in a matter of weeks. The Pats tried how many people opposite Samuel before Hobbs and Hawkins settled in? And by then, Wilson was also out... You can't fully blame Wilson for that fiasco. Especially with the front 7 not beinig solid with Bruschi being out, Vrabel learning the ILB position, Seymour missing time, and the Beisel/Brown fiasco in the middle...

As for 2006, Wilson was playing better and again, getting comfortable before he went down again. I have cautious optimism that he will return to the field at the level he was at prior to his arm injury in the SB. If he's the starting FS, great. If not, he's a great option off the bench for FS or CB.

I sincerely hope you're right and I'm wrong on EW. He struggled in 2005 and was terrible in 2006 (Jets/Denver games). Regardless of the why's and how's, I just don't feel confident in EW being our last line of defense. He'll have to prove himself again.

 

[CoachK]

Re: Anybody else struggling with this Stewart Bradley tidbit?

AT FS? Who are they? Hawkins is an aging journeyman. RH is in is mid-30s and has had 2 knee injuries and a shoulder injury in his last 2 years. Besides, RH is more of a SS these days. Wilson?




IMO, Weddle was overrated and SD overpaid to get him.


This may be the most accurate statement in this whole thread !

 

[zoogies]

Re: Anybody else struggling with this Stewart Bradley tidbit?

Dang, that's the first I've heard of Bradley being targeted by the Pats...as a Husker follower, I can tell you he's a good guy. Wish the Pats had gotten him. Kind of puzzling how we...didn't draft people...I sure as heck was confused on draft day when rounds kept going by and the Patriots kept shipping off their draft picks.