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Patriots Only Used 2TE Offense for 18% of Snaps This Season

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Pape

In the Starting Line-Up
full season snapshot of the two TE formation

Source: --> https://www.sharpfootballstats.com/personnel-grouping-frequency.html

Good site. Worth Linking / Reading


nvqNUjJ.jpg
 

DropKickFlutie

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
full season snapshot of the two TE formation

Source: --> Personnel Grouping Frequency

Good site. Worth Linking / Reading


nvqNUjJ.jpg

Thanks for sharing. Wonderful info.

Wow so 2TE had both excellent runs per attempt and passes per attempt. But used so infrequently.

What was the proportion that they kept running 3WR+ (3WR, 4WR, 5WR) sets? Seems like over 70% of the time. Again, lazy play calling by the oc who goes into spread shotgun regardless of the internal personnel or opponent.
 

*ChungFu*

On the Game Day Roster
Seeing that there was a pretty desperate need for Smith to provide big plays this year, I doubt his non-use was out of coaching ignorance. Smith just may not know his job. Sure, they could have lined him and Harry up outside for go-routes, but I think they may have similar challenges to overcome that limited their use. Just a thought.
 

Zuma

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I think their is a lot of over-analyzing with this. Mac is a rookie with limited NFL exposure and Smith is in a new system...same with Agholor. Mac had no rapport at all with the Wr's on the team. Smith was then relegated to blocking which he is not very good at and hard to change that around in the middle of the season with a rookie QB. Next year will be different. Some players click right away and others need more time.
 

captain stone

Hall of Fame Poster
which game was it where they ran an quite effecitve offense in first half with 12 personal just to switch away from it in second half (being again not so productive) and McD admitting they ran out of 12 personal play calls in his play book?

Yeah I remember that quote too! But I also forget which game that was...
 

Nunchucks

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Was he running the wrong routes when he started the season catching 9 of his first 10 targets ?
Generally, the offense becomes more complex as the season progresses. Especially, with a rookie qb. The offense cannot run those same plays over and over, defenses figure that out pretty quick.
 

JayNM

In the Starting Line-Up
Gotta give all players one year to learn to system... Some are slow learners...

Some day* later in 2022 illl see the ramifications of cutting him after next season

*ceteris paribus
Hawaii Five 0 Economics GIF by CBS
, he might be too expensive
 

captain stone

Hall of Fame Poster
That was Bill O'Brien who installed the 2TE offense. The momen O'Brien left McD quickly abandoned 2TE's. Easily verifiable when one checks the 2013-2020 season game logs. Even with Bennett here it was almost always just him (Gronk hurt) or Gronk doing things.

In 2012 however, all 3 of McD, Gronk & The Late Prisoner were here while BOB left for Penn State after the 2011 SB... So McD did indeed run a 2-TE offense that season; he had to, because his only productive WRs were WW & Brandon Lloyd (Twig & Edelman combined for 37 catches).


Bill really could've used Golden Tate that season... and the one before that... and the one before that.
 

DropKickFlutie

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
Generally, the offense becomes more complex as the season progresses. Especially, with a rookie qb. The offense cannot run those same plays over and over, defenses figure that out pretty quick.

True. is it more likely that Jonnu is a 8-TD-scoring player on the Titans but a dumba-s who can't pick up the Patriots playbook/scheme, or that the OC has no clue how to use a 2nd tight end in the passing game?
 
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Ring 6

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What I saw when Smith was on the field doesn’t make me think through offense would have been better with more smith.
 

DropKickFlutie

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
Seeing that there was a pretty desperate need for Smith to provide big plays this year, I doubt his non-use was out of coaching ignorance. Smith just may not know his job. Sure, they could have lined him and Harry up outside for go-routes, but I think they may have similar challenges to overcome that limited their use. Just a thought.

I mean Jonnu's not a good blocker. Could it be that they stopped playing Jonnu given they could just do more formations with the fullback ? Seems like if they only wanted a 2nd TE to block, and Jonnu isn't good at that, that this partly explains his lower usage.
 

Ring 6

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True. is it more likely that Jonnu is a 8-TD-scoring player on the Titans but a dumba-s who can't pick up the Patriots playbook/scheme, or that the OC has no clue how to use a 2nd tight end in the passing game?
Or he is on the same team with the TE who led the league in TD receptions.
The offense was #1 in the nfl in red zone TD % after week 3, I don’t think not using smith in the red zone is an issue to be complaining about.
 

*ChungFu*

On the Game Day Roster
I mean Jonnu's not a good blocker. Could it be that they stopped playing Jonnu given they could just do more formations with the fullback ? Seems like if they only wanted a 2nd TE to block, and Jonnu isn't good at that, that this partly explains his lower usage.
Could be that.
Personally I'd rather use a third tacklein that scenario and I've felt that way since before Alge Crumpler or Kyle Brady.
 

DropKickFlutie

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
Could be that.
Personally I'd rather use a third tacklein that scenario and I've felt that way since before Alge Crumpler or Kyle Brady.

I hear you. Yes adding in a 3rd tackle (6th OLineman) or a blocking TE is more in line with how the current OC likes to play-call. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that. Would have been good for the team to not sign a $14M/year second tight end when we really just needed a bolt-on extra cheap(er) lineman instead.
 

DropKickFlutie

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
#81 looks pretty good - Pats should have signed that guy :maybenot:

Super fast, strong, sheds tacklers like a tough guy. Yeah , barely saw any of these play designs for the guy this season. It wouldn't matter as much except 5+ different crappy expensive contracts on the team will mess up keeping JC Jackson which would be disastrous
 

WhatJustHappened

On the Game Day Roster
JC is overated IMHO, I personally don't think he's a true #1, I think he's a great #2.
Not worth 20M, that disrupts/ takes too much cap UNLESS the DL is DOMINANT giving the QB Very Little Time.
I also think Gilmore benefitted HUGE in '19 from Flores' very aggressive Front 7 pressure.
He did good other than that.

Revis was a TRUE #1 in his prime, and even that Moss TD against him in 07 was a tough play for Moss/Tom...
Moss was an animal when interested.
 

DropKickFlutie

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
JC is overated IMHO, I personally don't think he's a true #1, I think he's a great #2.
Not worth 20M, that disrupts/ takes too much cap UNLESS the DL is DOMINANT giving the QB Very Little Time.
I also think Gilmore benefitted HUGE in '19 from Flores' very aggressive Front 7 pressure.
He did good other than that.

Revis was a TRUE #1 in his prime, and even that Moss TD against him in 07 was a tough play for Moss/Tom...
Moss was an animal when interested.

What's the alternative? Not sure if you remember how pathetic the pass defense was for many years between Shawn Springs and Duane Starks. It's worth paying up for a good CB. It's too bad the Pats have so many sh-tty contracts it might mess up keeping Jackson
 

WhatJustHappened

On the Game Day Roster
What's the alternative? Not sure if you remember how pathetic the pass defense was for many years between Shawn Springs and Duane Starks. It's worth paying up for a good CB. It's too bad the Pats have so many sh-tty contracts it might mess up keeping Jackson
Fix the Front 7, and call it more aggressive like Flores did in '19 IMHO.
Make the QB have to make quicker decisions, that way the DBS don't need to tight cover as long, this year was PAINFUL when Judon was hurt.
Other than that 1 year, Gilmore was a VG Corner, 2020 he was back to mediocre without that pressure he had the year b4(before he got hurt).

Pittsburgh's Defense this year is a decent example IMO.
As were the Giants front 4 in the SB's we lost(Sorry- it's painful).it was the front 4 that destroyed the Pats OL (Neal being hurt certainly didn't help).
There are different ways to do it, lockdown corners creating problems, or the front 7 creating rushed decisions/throws.
They let Allen sit back there worried about him running, and he's too smart(with a rocket arm-not a good option).

I still don't know why they didn't have Judon and crew putting PRESSURE, with Collins spying him... although I think Judon was hurting at the end of the season.

These are just MY thoughts from watching the games.
 

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