Our defense is under attack

[Haterproof]

This couldn't come at a better time.Bill knows there were a few minor wrinkles in the D from the Jags game.I gaurentee you he'll do a good job at getting it fixed this week.

 

[Fahrenhype]

They only have one task: keep the other team from scoring as many points as the most prolific offense of all time.

If Brady were more prone to dumb high risk / low reward throws I'd be concerned, but he doesn't do that.

I just want to see more out of the secondary. The '04 team allowed fewer big gains in the playoffs and both starting cornerbacks were out for the entire post season.

 

[TommyD4207]

I love WEEI, but I can't believe how they refuse to criticize the defense at all. To me it all comes down to a couple of simple problems on our defense:

-Our inside linebackers are by far the slowest in the league. Adalius Thomas was brought in because he had both the size and speed we need at ILB. When he was switched to the outside, it exposed Bruschi and Seau, who are great leaders and technicians, but get caught up in blocks because they are too slow. Vrabel, Bruschi and Seau are great at going straight ahead but have a lot of trouble changing direction. Crossing patterns kill us.

I don't know you, so please don't take this personally.But Honest to God, What is the Obsession with the "Old Slow" defense? My God, this was the #4 scoring defense in the league, and #7 in yardage. THAT is not the sign of an "OLD SLOW" defense. The Patriots gave up 30 points exactly ONE time all season; and that was in the last game of the Regular Season against the Giants; when obviously nervousness played a huge part in the game. Crossing Patterns do NOT kill us, because they're almost NEVER run against the Patriots' Defense. What's been "killing" the Patriots, if you want to use that term; are 15-yard outs, mainly because the Corners are playing so far off so they don't get beat deep.

-Our 3-4 defense is based on stopping the run first, which was great a few years ago, but this is now a passing league. We changed our offense to reflect this, but the defense did not. We get little initial pressure on pass plays with three or four guys going after the QB.

The Patriots are 2nd in the league in Sacks, behind only the Giants, who had a 12 sack game. This is just silly. The Patriots have been playing Vanilla Coverages and have Blitzed very little (unless it was absolutely necessary, and it was almost ALWAYS successful).

Look at the rest of the teams left in the playoffs, they have at least two guys whose specialty is rushing the passer trying to shoot the gap on every down. With our 3-4 principles and Seymour less than 100%, QB's have too much time on 1st and 2nd downs to survey the field. Our best pass rushers are often dropping back in coverage (Vrabel should never be in coverage).

1) Vrabel is the backup ILB, so him playing coverage is far from a liability. That said, he almost always rushes; the Patriots rush 4 most of the time. Seymour is 100%. I have no idea why you'd think differently. Seymour has been the best lineman on the team the last 6 weeks. Last week, the Patriots stacked the box to load up against the run. They held the #2 rushing attack to just 80 yards for the game. Garrard did an amazing job being forced to pass; and might have had his best game as a pro. They STILL lost by 11.

I think its good to criticize the team. After all, doesn't Belichick stress being self-critical? Aren't we trying to be perfect in every phase?

It's one thing to be critical. It's another thing entirely to be critical and accurate.

Want to be critical of the defense? Find out wtf ***ANTE was doing last week; going for picks and getting toasted instead of covering his man.

 

[SeymourTrophies]

Anybody listening to WEEI? There appears to be a lot of fans that are concerned about the defense. Anybody from Patsfans.com calling in with concerns?
But seriously, I have been hearing a lot of complaints about the defense lately. I was not happy with some of the things that happened in Sunday's game, but I don't think our boys are THAT BAD. I think that these guys can hold their own against most teams.

I can agree with the verbal punishing of the defense because it won't win us any games. They aren't THAT bad, and they end up getting it done when it matters, but anyone would look bad when someone is trying to find flaws while being compared to our offense. My biggest problem with the defense is Rodney "personal foul" Harrison and Samuel getting mauled on every play. Samuel will probably turn around and have two big games now so he can claim he deserves money, but he isn't half of the player Ty Law was or maybe even still is. The D-Line is really starting to get it done especially considering the fact our 3 man line commands 5 blockers. Seymour is coming back.

 

[TommyD4207]

I can agree with the verbal punishing of the defense because it won't win us any games. They aren't THAT bad, and they end up getting it done when it matters, but anyone would look bad when someone is trying to find flaws while being compared to our offense. My biggest problem with the defense is Rodney "personal foul" Harrison and Samuel getting mauled on every play. Samuel will probably turn around and have two big games now so he can claim he deserves money, but he isn't half of the player Ty Law was or maybe even still is. The D-Line is really starting to get it done especially considering the fact our 3 man line commands 5 blockers. Seymour is coming back.

Nice Point. I'd rather have Ty Law as he is right now, than ***ANTE Samuel, who is probably in his prime. Law is just a much more cerebral player. Not to mention about a million times better tackler.

 

[Patriot Power]

It's the nature of the people who call in to be over-the-top-critical.

If you were to use WEEI callers as your basis for an opinion, I would call your opinion uninformed =p

Except the most outspoken opponent of the defense on the air today happened to be a writer for Patriots Football Weekly, Paul Perillo.

 

[Deus Irae]

The secondary was horrible against the pass, particularly in the first half. Gay was a full step slow on almost every play and Samuel continues to show that he's good but overrated.

On the other hand, the team only allowed 20 points despite all the problems in the secondary. New England fans have the luxury of complaining about the 'terrible' defense their team has while watching that 'terrible' defense get the job done well enough to win week after week.

 

[DarrylS]

Hearing a lot of this stuff lately and it is becoming insufferable, too much yak on one side and too little knowledge on the other, couple of thoughts..

1. The bend don't break philosophy of Pats D sometimes breaks
2. In the Jax game, Rodney was up to the line most of the snaps and thus Assante and gay were forced into single coverage..
3. A big problem this year is we have an A+++ Offense, and the Defense is perhaps a B+.. so we tend to compare one against each other.
4. There seems to be big misunderstanding of the 3-4 Defense by most fans, thus many thread about Seymour or Warren not doing their job.. people want to see big numbers in the box score, so if they do not have big numbers they suck... watch the replay on NFL network.. watch Seymour, best game of the year last week, strong & disruptive.

Our D is not a big problem, there are no current dominant D's in the final 4, there are 4 pretty good ones.. but there is no real shut down D in the NFL right now.

 

[chrisfx811]

Fwiw, the league's #1 scoring defense gave up 28 points to the Chargers, @ home, without their star rb, and without their starting qb for the 4th quarter.

The league's #2 scoring defense, iirc the Steelers, were ousted in the WC round and have been giving up points like crazy.

Most of the defenses this season were in the 17-19 point range for the year, and against one of the more efficient offenses over the second half of the season, the Pats held them to 20 points, despite Jax playing a very efficient game.

Indy played terribly and piled up 400+ yds of offense, and came away with 24 points despite 3 long drives ending in Charger territory with 0 points.

I'm not wowed by our D either, but their demise is a bit exaggerated.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

The secondary was horrible against the pass, particularly in the first half. Gay was a full step slow on almost every play and Samuel continues to show that he's good but overrated.

On the other hand, the team only allowed 20 points despite all the problems in the secondary. New England fans have the luxury of complaining about the 'terrible' defense their team has while watching that 'terrible' defense get the job done well enough to win week after week.

And in the game threads every week, the seemingly disgruntled DefenseRules leads the "this defense SUCKS charge... If they were really that across the board bad and we actually lost a game I shudder to think what would transpire...

I also think the last second change to starting Gay and spotting a gimpy Hobbs as the nickle led to some coverage confusion they eventually got the kinks worked out of as best they could considering they were daring . And that we can win with Asante playing like a stupid ballhawk just underscores why he won't get an $8M+ payday here. Not sure he's even worth that $6M payday, and I'd bet that "average" was based on some backloaded salaries (as their signing bonus seemed to indicate)... At that position Bill is really looking for some solid $4M corners who can be coached up game by game to play like $6M men.

 

[Ichiro]

I don't know you, so please don't take this personally.But Honest to God, What is the Obsession with the "Old Slow" defense? My God, this was the #4 scoring defense in the league, and #7 in yardage. THAT is not the sign of an "OLD SLOW" defense. The Patriots gave up 30 points exactly ONE time all season; and that was in the last game of the Regular Season against the Giants; when obviously nervousness played a huge part in the game. Crossing Patterns do NOT kill us, because they're almost NEVER run against the Patriots' Defense. What's been "killing" the Patriots, if you want to use that term; are 15-yard outs, mainly because the Corners are playing so far off so they don't get beat deep.



The Patriots are 2nd in the league in Sacks, behind only the Giants, who had a 12 sack game. This is just silly. The Patriots have been playing Vanilla Coverages and have Blitzed very little (unless it was absolutely necessary, and it was almost ALWAYS successful).

1) Vrabel is the backup ILB, so him playing coverage is far from a liability. That said, he almost always rushes; the Patriots rush 4 most of the time. Seymour is 100%. I have no idea why you'd think differently. Seymour has been the best lineman on the team the last 6 weeks. Last week, the Patriots stacked the box to load up against the run. They held the #2 rushing attack to just 80 yards for the game. Garrard did an amazing job being forced to pass; and might have had his best game as a pro. They STILL lost by 11.


It's one thing to be critical. It's another thing entirely to be critical and accurate.

Want to be critical of the defense? Find out wtf ***ANTE was doing last week; going for picks and getting toasted instead of covering his man.

My observations are based on watching the tape and seeing how teams have game planned us in the 2nd half of the season, I do not put much stock in season statistics. Teams realize slowing down the game and exposing the weaknesses we have on defense is the ONLY way to beat us. Long, sustained drives like the ones Jacksonville put on us is not what were looking for. We need to force a few 3 and outs and I feel we just have not been doing that lately.

-Crossing patterns like the one Brandon Jacobs ran in for a touchdown is a perfect example of our problems on defense. He ran right by Bruschi waiting BEHIND him in zone coverage. Jones-Drew ran the same pattern for a crucial 1st down last weekend. The middle of our defense is below average in pass defense because of speed. Adalius was brought in because of his unique coverage skills for such a large linebacker.

- I do not think that Seymour has been our best D-lineman since he hurt himself in 05'. Warren was easily our best lineman last year and Wilfork was the best this year. I mean, seriously, compare Seymour now versus 03', 04' and the beginning of 05' (Do you remember him in the 05' opener vs the Raiders- wow). He is either not 100% or mailing it in after a big contract. I believe it is the former.

- I do not understand your point of Vrabel being the backup ILB therefore he is not a liability in coverage. His change of direction skills have never been good. Witness Jacksonville bouncing outside last weekend on a few runs. He does not hold the edge on runs like he used to.

-You're right, 15 yd out patterns have been hurting us. I believe this is because we are scared of the deep pass: the lack of speed (Harrison) or centerfield coverage skills (Sanders) at safety seems to be the reason. Add on top of this the two gap principles on 1st and 2nd down (no pass rush) and you can see why our corners play way off wideouts.

-you might think this is nitpicking, but I believe nitpicking by Belichick is why we are 17-0