Our defense is under attack

[DefenseRules]

Anybody listening to WEEI? There appears to be a lot of fans that are concerned about the defense. Anybody from Patsfans.com calling in with concerns?
But seriously, I have been hearing a lot of complaints about the defense lately. I was not happy with some of the things that happened in Sunday's game, but I don't think our boys are THAT BAD. I think that these guys can hold their own against most teams.

 

[xmarkd400x]

It's the nature of the people who call in to be over-the-top-critical.

If you were to use WEEI callers as your basis for an opinion, I would call your opinion uninformed =p

 

[BrianPat]

Listen, how everything looks to us might not be actually what's happening on the field.
Looks can be deceiving
Here's an example, why were our pass defenders playing off the receivers by at least 10 yards at the line of scrimmage. Then even though the Jags were passing short in reaction to this, the Pats never adjusted, until the 4th quarter ?
Honestly, why were the Patriots playing a vanilla defense, not moving people around, shuffling linebackers in and out the line of scrimmage, until the 4th quarter ?
I have a feeling our defense will be amazing this weekend

 

[DefenseRules]

It's the nature of the people who call in to be over-the-top-critical.

If you were to use WEEI callers as your basis for an opinion, I would call your opinion uninformed =p

I agree. I just find the discussion fascinating. I mean we are 17 and 0. What more do these people want?
OK, I don't think our D is as good as it was in 2003 or 2004. I'll give them that much. HOWEVER, we have the best offense probably in NFL history if this run continues, the best QB in NFL history, and our special teams are very good, IMHO. And this defense that everyone complains about has something to do with why we are 17 and 0.

 

[Fixit]

20 points (7 of which shouldn't have counted) against the 2nd-highest-scoring offense in the league over the second half of the season. We're doomed.

 

[BigHoss67]

The Jaguars played right into the Patriots' hands...

It was a picture-perfect gameplan and vintage Belichick... Shut down your opponent's strength (in this case, Jacksonville's ground game)... Watch them try to beat you with the weakest aspect of their offense...

It worked perfectly.

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

I found it difficult to listen to, constant talking over each other and repeating the same thing over and over.

Anyway, two things are clear to me from the past two games :

- We've been playing very soft in the first half.
- We've been successful getting to the QB (hits, not just sacks) when blitzing in the 2nd half, especially the 4th quarter.

Clearly it's a choice they've made. Why ? Who knows. Maybe it's to keep the LB rested as they don't have any depth with Colvin gone. Maybe they're content to make teams move down the field slowly (in theory, although it's been fast at times) knowing that the offense has a good chance to score. Maybe they're in no rush to blitz until the get a good look at the protection packages. Maybe it's because they got to Feeley and Boller fairly well and had those mediocre QB still make great throws (Feeley especially) and feel a little burned by it.

I have no idea. But we've been successful enough at blitzing recently that if they wanted to do it earlier they should have confidence in it.

 

[Grogan's neck roll]

Listen, how everything looks to us might not be actually what's happening on the field.
Looks can be deceiving
Here's an example, why were our pass defenders playing off the receivers by at least 10 yards at the line of scrimmage. Then even though the Jags were passing short in reaction to this, the Pats never adjusted, until the 4th quarter ?
Honestly, why were the Patriots playing a vanilla defense, not moving people around, shuffling linebackers in and out the line of scrimmage, until the 4th quarter ?
I have a feeling our defense will be amazing this weekend

I think this is spot on, I am not a homer, nor do I wear rose colored glasses, but I have been saying the same thing for weeks. I think the Pats were playing their cards close to the vest for the second half of the season so as to not give too much for Indy to review, and now BB is thinking "I saved this up for Rivers?"

Also, Jaws was talking this morning on D&C that there were a lot of mental errors he saw on the D's part against Jax, I am confident in BB to clean those lapses up.

 

[BostonBullit]

actually it's Paul Perillo who is the one making the arguement that the D needs work and his arguement, sans yelling over and Fat-O spin, is this:

There was really no difference between the performance of the D in the first and second half of the Jags game. The only difference is that Jags WRs dropped two easily catchable balls that would have been TDs and instead had to take FGs. DeOssie, Fat-O, and Pete screamed for a half hour that the only reason the first guy dropped the pass was because he was a-scared of Assante running over to lay a hit on him, he looked up to see where the D was and it caused him to drop the ball. When it was brought up that WWW dropped that pass in the same way they said it was because he was looking to run with it, not that he was afraid of being hit. On the other drop they said it's just cause the guy sucked, no Pats D involvement.

I can see both sides, the D has looked horrible against the pass when they are focusing on stopping the run; but then again BB has come up with defensive game plans in the past that say "if X dude rushes for 100+ yards in this game we will win" so who knows what is REALLY going on

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

There was really no difference between the performance of the D in the first and second half of the Jags game. The only difference is that Jags WRs dropped two easily catchable balls that would have been TDs and instead had to take FGs.

I don't remember the Jones one too well although my perception was that Gay had him covered pretty well and even if it hit him in the hands, he had to distract him.

But the Northcutt one I disagree with. Perillo is correct that Northcutt could/should have caught it - however he's making a "quality of the defensive play" arguement and we smacked Garrard on that play, it was a near miracle throw that I doubt he could repeat often. Although the pass could have been caught, if we play that defense (all 11 not just the DBs) again, it won't be completed very often.

 

[FrontSeven]

Looks can be deceiving

You are correct. But how does three 85 yard, clock eating drives get to be deceiving?

You should be aware that Ellis Hobbs has basically said they all played like ass.

 

[fnordcircle]

Anybody listening to WEEI?

Isn't that a 24x7 commercial channel?

 

[DefenseRules]

You are correct. But how does three 85 yard, clock eating drives get to be deceiving?

You should be aware that Ellis Hobbs has basically said they all played like ass.

He's not the only one who said that. Rodney said that BB "cussed them out at halftime", and Seymour said pretty much the same thing. They are definately under some "HEAT" this week.

 

[DefenseRules]

Isn't that a 24x7 commercial channel?

I don't normally listen to them, but this discussion was rather fascinating. I just could not believe how much our defense is getting ripped.

 

[Ichiro]

I love WEEI, but I can't believe how they refuse to criticize the defense at all. To me it all comes down to a couple of simple problems on our defense:

-Our inside linebackers are by far the slowest in the league. Adalius Thomas was brought in because he had both the size and speed we need at ILB. When he was switched to the outside, it exposed Bruschi and Seau, who are great leaders and technicians, but get caught up in blocks because they are too slow. Vrabel, Bruschi and Seau are great at going straight ahead but have a lot of trouble changing direction. Crossing patterns kill us.

-Our 3-4 defense is based on stopping the run first, which was great a few years ago, but this is now a passing league. We changed our offense to reflect this, but the defense did not. We get little initial pressure on pass plays with three or four guys going after the QB. Look at the rest of the teams left in the playoffs, they have at least two guys whose specialty is rushing the passer trying to shoot the gap on every down. With our 3-4 principles and Seymour less than 100%, QB's have too much time on 1st and 2nd downs to survey the field. Our best pass rushers are often dropping back in coverage (Vrabel should never be in coverage).

I think its good to criticize the team. After all, doesn't Belichick stress being self-critical? Aren't we trying to be perfect in every phase?

 

[BrianPat]

You are correct. But how does three 85 yard, clock eating drives get to be deceiving?

You should be aware that Ellis Hobbs has basically said they all played like ass.

What else would he say ? Ya, that's exactly what we wanted to do, other then blowing coverage 3-4 times during the game ?

Yes they made mistakes, but how many TD's did they allow in the second half ?? Did you see what I saw ?? Did you see any difference in the 4th quarter defensive play ?? Didn't think so, just because you missed it, dosen't mean it didn't happen.

Your points are moot, no kidding there were failures in Pas Coverage duh. Did you see what i was talking about ?? The changes in Pass coverage at the line of scrimmage ?? Of the Linebackers all of sudden moving around ??

Honestly, people all up in arms about the defense can jump on the " Maroney sticks boat " If I remember FrontSeven, you were the Captain of that boat !

Hit me up Monday and tell me how bad or defense is. People have to remember, this Bill Belichick were talking about, what you see is not what you get !

 

[captain stone]

I love WEEI, but I can't believe how they refuse to criticize the defense at all. To me it all comes down to a couple of simple problems on our defense:

1) Our inside linebackers are by far the slowest in the league. Adalius Thomas was brought in because he had both the size and speed we need at ILB. When he was switched to the outside, it exposed Bruschi and Seau, who are great leaders and technicians, but get caught up in blocks because they are too slow. Vrabel, Bruschi and Seau are great at going straight ahead but have a lot of trouble changing direction. Crossing patterns kill us.

2) Our 3-4 defense is based on stopping the run first, which was great a few years ago, but this is now a passing league. We changed our offense to reflect this, but the defense did not. We get little initial pressure on pass plays with three or four guys going after the QB. Look at the rest of the teams left in the playoffs, they have at least two guys whose specialty is rushing the passer trying to shoot the gap on every down. With our 3-4 principles and Seymour less than 100%, QB's have too much time on 1st and 2nd downs to survey the field. Our best pass rushers are often dropping back in coverage (Vrabel should never be in coverage).

I think its good to criticize the team. After all, doesn't Belichick stress being self-critical? Aren't we trying to be perfect in every phase?

Welcome back, Ichiro. You are correct, as usual, that it's always good to be self-critical. Only bad things can - and will - happen otherwise.

1) I completely agree re: the LBs. Why this unit hasn't improved its youth, speed and depth is one of life's great mysteries.

2) This is a very interesting subject. Just as the FO changed the look of our WRs, and thereby our offense, will it consider changing the look of our defense? I would first like to see some youth, talent and speed added at ILB and DE, and possibly OLB and SS. Even if the upgrades in personnel don't amount to an upgrade in QB sack totals, the improved ablility of the defense to cover RBs and TEs in the middle of the field, and also to force the QB to throw earlier than desired, should add up to more 3-and-outs, and fewer 9-play drives.

 

[Metaphors]

-Our inside linebackers are by far the slowest in the league. Adalius Thomas was brought in because he had both the size and speed we need at ILB. When he was switched to the outside, it exposed Bruschi and Seau, who are great leaders and technicians, but get caught up in blocks because they are too slow. Vrabel, Bruschi and Seau are great at going straight ahead but have a lot of trouble changing direction. Crossing patterns kill us.

-Our 3-4 defense is based on stopping the run first, which was great a few years ago, but this is now a passing league. We changed our offense to reflect this, but the defense did not. We get little initial pressure on pass plays with three or four guys going after the QB. Look at the rest of the teams left in the playoffs, they have at least two guys whose specialty is rushing the passer trying to shoot the gap on every down. With our 3-4 principles and Seymour less than 100%, QB's have too much time on 1st and 2nd downs to survey the field. Our best pass rushers are often dropping back in coverage (Vrabel should never be in coverage).

As other posters have mentioned, the Pats D have executed gameplans very well. Some examples:

Philly: The Pats wanted to control Westbrook and force Feeley to win the game. Problem was Feeley played out of his skull and the DBs were always just a half step slow.

Balt: The Pats were completely flat coming out of halftime and got run over for 2 TD drives. Can't explain why, but the other 3 quarters were solid.

NYG: Eli played better than expected but game was generally going according to plan at halftime (return TD skewed the score). Again, a dud drive starting the 3rd quarter and an uninspired effort by the D made it look bad.

These are games people use as examples that the Pats D is struggling. In reality, they all followed the same basic script:

1) Play conservative in the 1st half and see if the opposing offense will beat itself trying to compete with the Pats scoring.
2) Drink some warm milk at halftime and sleepwalk in the 3rd quarter.
3) Wake up and shut down the opposing offense in the 4th quarter.

The only thing that disturbs me is the lackluster effort after the halftime break...particularly since implementing halftime adjustments is typically a strength for this team.

If the Pats were fundamentally flawed on defense, wouldn't Dallas (3 pts on a short drive), Indy (7 pts on a short drive), Philly (nuthin), Pittsburgh (zip), Giants (7 pts, Pats trading points for time) and Jax (3 pts) be able to take advantage in the 4th quarter? The Pats keep their powder dry until the second half and are able to go all out on defense to close out the game.

 

[RayClay]

actually it's Paul Perillo who is the one making the arguement that the D needs work and his arguement, sans yelling over and Fat-O spin, is this:

There was really no difference between the performance of the D in the first and second half of the Jags game. The only difference is that Jags WRs dropped two easily catchable balls that would have been TDs and instead had to take FGs. DeOssie, Fat-O, and Pete screamed for a half hour that the only reason the first guy dropped the pass was because he was a-scared of Assante running over to lay a hit on him, he looked up to see where the D was and it caused him to drop the ball. When it was brought up that WWW dropped that pass in the same way they said it was because he was looking to run with it, not that he was afraid of being hit. On the other drop they said it's just cause the guy sucked, no Pats D involvement.

I can see both sides, the D has looked horrible against the pass when they are focusing on stopping the run; but then again BB has come up with defensive game plans in the past that say "if X dude rushes for 100+ yards in this game we will win" so who knows what is REALLY going on

We also dropped easy interceptions. Fact is, we mandated a long drive grind it out game without a running game on their part. with their tall receivers and Garrard being patient, they ran it very well.

Well enough to lose by 11.

The Patriots are what they are and that's a game plan team. to compare one game plan to another is an exercise in futility.

Did the Jags get easy points early so the could run it down our throats? No

Did the get a rhythm in the running game? No

Were they more consistent with the short passes? Yes, that's why we adjust.

LBs are rested and healthy, but they aren't getting faster. Corners are good, not average, not excellent.

Only boost athletically is from the safeties, or massive pushand rotation from the line.

Game plan this week will be different. Talk show callers are morons, generally.

You can listen to the high school gossip fest over at patriot weekly radio, or whatever, but i don't.

 

[RayClay]

to be fair, giving up the short stuff could be exposing our linebackers weakness in coverage.

Extra safeties in packages could help.