World Cup Thread.

[Mike the Brit]

We disagree, the US clearly lost the possession battles in every game they played and would not have made it out of the group stage had Howard not played outstanding, and yes, Ghana, Portugal, and Obviously germany and Belgium are all more skilled and more talented than the US, what got the US through is that they stayed organized and played as a team and had exceptional goaltending. And i honestly don't think i am looking at it through rose colored glasses, i agreed with 99% of Mike The Brits post I just disagreed at goaltender, and when he then claimed that half of the goalies in the tournament were better i said he appeared to have a bias. As i said before reasonable people can disagree but ignorant people who hate soccer really don't have a say. Neuer may or may not have been the best goalie but his team tied the record for goals ina world cup and I would bet Howard made more saves against beligium than neuer did in the entire tourney. The claim that all of those goalies were better is bias pure and simple.

I don't think it was my post (or me) you were disagreeing with.

For what it's worth, I think that comparing goalkeepers' performances over the course of a tournament is very difficult -- the demands they're placed under are so different.

There have been almost no poor keepers in this tournament and several outstanding ones. I wouldn't quarrel with the choice of Neuer, but nor would I dismiss Howard. But my keeper of the tournament is my boy Ochoa. YMMV.

 

[Ivan]

I don't think it was my post (or me) you were disagreeing with.

For what it's worth, I think that comparing goalkeepers' performances over the course of a tournament is very difficult -- the demands they're placed under are so different.

There have been almost no poor keepers in this tournament and several outstanding ones. I wouldn't quarrel with the choice of Neuer, but nor would I dismiss Howard. But my keeper of the tournament is my boy Ochoa. YMMV.

I agree, and i was responding to a number of posts, primarily the one from the d.ckhead american who hates soccer, "can't watch soccer-too boring," but feels equipped to decide who played best. As for the goalies i think i could go to the stat sheets and show that the US team lost the possession battles decisively, that Howard was under seige throughout their run, and that Howard kept them in every game against superior talent and was the MVP of their team, and that Neuer was on the highest scoring team and one that won the possession battle in every game, but ultimately I don't think statistics are very valuable in soccer, just as they don't represent what really happens in american football, and i think the eye test is the only real gauge and people will see things differently. I did agree with pretty much your entire assessment just not the take on Howard and as i said to Britpat i really appreciate everything you guys and the other serious soccer fans brought to this discussion and my enjoyment of the tournament. You guys really know your soccer and that showed throughout the tournament.

 

[Mike the Brit]

I agree, and i was responding to a number of posts, primarily the one from the d.ckhead american who hates soccer, "can't watch soccer-too boring," but feels equipped to decide who played best. As for the goalies i think i could go to the stat sheets and show that the US team lost the possession battles decisively, that Howard was under seige throughout their run, and that Howard kept them in every game against superior talent and was the MVP of their team, and that Neuer was on the highest scoring team and one that won the possession battle in every game, but ultimately I don't think statistics are very valuable in soccer, just as they don't represent what really happens in american football, and i think the eye test is the only real gauge and people will see things differently. I did agree with pretty much your entire assessment just not the take on Howard and as i said to Britpat i really appreciate everything you guys and the other serious soccer fans brought to this discussion and my enjoyment of the tournament. You guys really know your soccer and that showed throughout the tournament.

But I hadn't said anything about Howard then ...

 

[Ivan]

Ivan, I'm on the Ronaldo side of the Messi vs Ronaldo debate, no question, but I do believe Messi didn't deserve that honor last night. I actually feel thst Mascharano was the best player for Argentina this tournament.

We disagree, i thought Mascharano was their best player in their last two games but they wouldn't have even gotten there without Messi dominating the group stage. He was consistently marked by multiple players and still carried them. He's also the best player in the world and while i can certainly understand you siding with Ronaldo i think the vast majority of people recognize that.

That said I think the German team is outstanding and will be a force to reckon with in the Euro's and probably the next WC, but their coach is a no class POS, and i hope he does something to get fired because i will have no choice but to root against them in every match he coaches from here on out. First the snot incident with Ronaldo and then taking a shot at Messi after their win, what a scumbag.

 

[Ivan]

But I hadn't said anything about Howard then ...

Maybe i am mistaken, i will go check and you have my apology if i got it wrong.

 

[Ivan]

You are right mike, it was britpat who had 5 goalies "at least" ahead of him, that was what i was responding to, and while I have a great deal of respect for Britpat and his knowledge of the game i do think that's a really biased take on Howard. My apology for the mistake.

 

[AzorianPats]

We disagree, i thought Mascharano was their best player in their last two games but they wouldn't have even gotten there without Messi dominating the group stage. He was consistently marked by multiple players and still carried them. He's also the best player in the world and while i can certainly understand you siding with Ronaldo i think the vast majority of people recognize that.

That said I think the German team is outstanding and will be a force to reckon with in the Euro's and probably the next WC, but their coach is a no class POS, and i hope he does something to get fired because i will have no choice but to root against them in every match he coaches from here on out. First the snot incident with Ronaldo and then taking a shot at Messi after their win, what a scumbag.

Lol we'll agree to disagree with the debate..

But what did Low say about Messi? I heard something about the about snot thing with Ronaldo, but theirs been plenty of footage of him picking his nose and eating his boogers throughout the tournament. .. Disgusting!

 

[Ivan]

Lol we'll agree to disagree with the debate..

But what did Low say about Messi? I heard something about the about snot thing with Ronaldo, but theirs been plenty of footage of him picking his nose and eating his boogers throughout the tournament. .. Disgusting!

He said he told Gotze to go show everyone that he was better than Messi. Seriously, get the f.ck out of here, I guess that's why he was on the bench, because he's the best player in the world.

As far as i am concerned that is a moment where you either say nothing or tip your hat to Messi and commend him on the tournament, telling the world your bench player is better is simply a no class move from a no class coach, he doesn't deserve the team he has.

 

[Wheelman]

That said I think the German team is outstanding and will be a force to reckon with in the Euro's and probably the next WC, but their coach is a no class POS, and i hope he does something to get fired because i will have no choice but to root against them in every match he coaches from here on out. First the snot incident with Ronaldo and then taking a shot at Messi after their win, what a scumbag.

How does something like that go unpunished? It's just freaking disgusting!

Am I the only one who noticed the people presenting the medals gave the coach a hug instead of shaking his hand.


As for the coach saying "go show everyone you're better than Messi" Sounds like a motivational tactic. No big deal to me. This whole this player is better than this player is just a bunch of silly immaturity. It's so hard to really quantify something like that. All that matters is championships.

 

[Ivan]

Lol we'll agree to disagree with the debate..

No problem Az, feel free to be wrong, it's OK with me...............

 

[Ivan]

Ahem.........Ian, Soccer Forum please........


Thanks in advance..........

 

[AzorianPats]

No problem Az, feel free to be wrong, it's OK with me...............

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/socce...ll-award-for-marketing-reasons-150853595.html

 

[AzorianPats]

Ahem.........Ian, Soccer Forum please........


Thanks in advance..........

In a month this thread had more replies than the Red Sox forum has had in 2-3 years!

 

[Major **********]

He said he told Gotze to go show everyone that he was better than Messi. Seriously, get the f.ck out of here, I guess that's why he was on the bench, because he's the best player in the world.

As far as i am concerned that is a moment where you either say nothing or tip your hat to Messi and commend him on the tournament, telling the world your bench player is better is simply a no class move from a no class coach, he doesn't deserve the team he has.

LOL! For real? How dare a coach try and pump some confidence into a player who is clearly lacking in it? Perhaps he should cross himself every time he mentions Gods Gift to Football's name? God forbid someone doesn't genuflect at the altar of the Messi-ah.
Also, Messi dominated the group stage? In what competition? He had flashes of brilliance no doubt but to throw around the "dominated" word he needs to do it for more than a few minutes a game. Last time Messi dominated in the big stage was in UCL a few years ago.

 

[Major **********]

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/socce...ll-award-for-marketing-reasons-150853595.html

As much as I disagree with Messi winning the Golden Ball, anything that comes out of Maradona's mouth should go into one ear and out of the other. He is a bit of an idiot. Great player in his time but not someone whose opinion I would value.

 

[Ivan]

LOL! For real? How dare a coach try and pump some confidence into a player who is clearly lacking in it? Perhaps he should cross himself every time he mentions Gods Gift to Football's name? God forbid someone doesn't genuflect at the altar of the Messi-ah.
Also, Messi dominated the group stage? In what competition? He had flashes of brilliance no doubt but to throw around the "dominated" word he needs to do it for more than a few minutes a game. Last time Messi dominated in the big stage was in UCL a few years ago.

Total bullsh.t, they called it "Messi dependence" all the way through the group stage because he was the one reason Argentina was winning and moving on. As far as pumping his player up i have no problem with that, my problem is with telling the world he said it to him and essentially taking a shot at Messi moments after he had lost a final. Show some class, low is a scumbag, period. Anyone who thinks Goetze is in the same class as Messi is an idiot. very good player, beautiful goal to win the World Cup, but he isn't at that level or he never would have been sitting on the bench.

 

[Ivan]

As much as I disagree with Messi winning the Golden Ball, anything that comes out of Maradona's mouth should go into one ear and out of the other. He is a bit of an idiot. Great player in his time but not someone whose opinion I would value.

This i agree with, Rodriquez should have won the ward imo. I also got the sense Messi didn't want anything to do with it.

 

[Major **********]

Total bullsh.t, they called it "Messi dependence" all the way through the group stage because he was the one reason Argentina was winning and moving on. As far as pumping his player up i have no problem with that, my problem is with telling the world he said it to him and essentially taking a shot at Messi moments after he had lost a final. Show some class, low is a scumbag, period. Anyone who thinks Gotze is in the same class as Messi is an idiot. very good player, beautiful goal to win the World Cup, but he isn't at that level or he never would have been sitting on the bench.

He helped push a dull team through a terrible group. That is not dominating. Dominating would have been raise the performance of the whole team and actually dominate every team they played in the group. Argentina got by on tough defending while waiting for a Messi moment. 1 Moment in each game does not equal domination unless you credit Messi for the Argentinian defense also. Anyone who says that Argentina is a one man team either don't know what they are talking about or they have a pro Messi-ah agenda to cloud their judgement.

After winning the WC final JLo (who I am not a big fan of) has the right to reveal anything he'd like to the world. No one thinks Gotze is better than Messi. Not even Gotze's mom or Gotze himself in his most, CR7 like, narcissistic dreams. He said it for no other reason than to build his confidence. He revealed it to the world because its not a shot at Messi but more like extreme flattery to Gotze. If Pagano goes to Luck in OT of the AFCCG and tells him to go out there and show the world he is better than Brady I would have no problem with it. It's his guy. He should show confidence in him. And if Brady felt disrespected by it then it would reveal more about Brady than Pagano, Luck or anyone else.

 

[Major **********]

This i agree with, Rodriquez should have won the ward imo. I also got the sense Messi didn't want anything to do with it.

Yep. If anyone can be described as dominating from an outfield players prespective in this WC it has been James. Roben should be second.
As much as I love Manuel I didn't think he should have won the Golden Glove. He might be the all around most complete keeper in the world but the displays of Ochoa and Navas and Howard were Oliver Kahn 2002 like. I wouldn't have had an issue with either of them winning it. Hell if one of them won the golden Ball I wouldn't have been as surprises as I was when I saw Messi had won it.
For me this WC will be defined by the goal keeping. Some heroic and some disastrous (Iker and the Russian keeper), which is funny considering the amount of goals scored.
Of course Leo din't want anything to do with it. It would have been like trying to give Brady the MVP award after loosing to the Giants at the SB. He'd probably refuse to go collect it. Hell, as narcissistic as CR7 is, I don't think he could have mustered any enthusiasm about it had he been in Messi's place.

 

[Ivan]

Yep. If anyone can be described as dominating from an outfield players prespective in this WC it has been James. Roben should be second.
As much as I love Manuel I didn't think he should have won the Golden Glove. He might be the all around most complete keeper in the world but the displays of Ochoa and Navas and Howard were Oliver Kahn 2002 like. I wouldn't have had an issue with either of them winning it. Hell if one of them won the golden Ball I wouldn't have been as surprises as I was when I saw Messi had won it.
For me this WC will be defined by the goal keeping. Some heroic and some disastrous (Iker and the Russian keeper), which is funny considering the amount of goals scored.
Of course Leo din't want anything to do with it. It would have been like trying to give Brady the MVP award after loosing to the Giants at the SB. He'd probably refuse to go collect it. Hell, as narcissistic as CR7 is, I don't think he could have mustered any enthusiasm about it had he been in Messi's place.

We disagree on some of thi sand your other post but agree on some as well, ultimately i don't think Messi was the right choice for the award and I do think the best team in the tournament won, and I am glad it was in regulation because few things are worse for soccer imo than PK's deciding a world cup, that's a disgrace.

I hate Robben but he had a really good tournament, he's still a world class punk imo. Sneijder on the other hand i would take any day, great player, class player.