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Discussion in 'The PatsFans.com Pub' started by Joey007, Aug 26, 2018.

  1. PP2

    PP2 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    This is why nobody wants to debate with you.

    Jack Bauer really was simply stating a fact, and you treated it as an insult. That's all there is to it.
     
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  2. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Wrong jack Bauer was being an arrogant prick.
     
  3. A Defiant Goose

    A Defiant Goose In the Starting Line-Up

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    Jack wanted to make an argument about needing more regulation without specifying what that regulation would be. Probably because he knows there are states or cities or counties with such regulation that still experience plenty of gun violence. It's almost like it's a problem with the people and culture and not the firearms. Hmm
     
  4. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Constitutional rights are bullshit?
    We are talking about constitutional rights and freedoms vs legislating them away for a valid reason.
    This is why it is pointless to talk to you and why every single interaction with you turns into this. You don’t want to discuss. You want to say what you think and ignore any other viewpoint exists.
    I am literally in the middle on this discussion. So I pose the other side and ask how comfortable you are with the cunsequrnces of your viewpoint and you act all offended, call it changing the subject and cry.
    I will assume then that if you have a reason you would be fine with requiring an intelligence test for voting (after all it would solve electing the wrong people) than banning free speech would be find with you if the government decides free speech is causing violence.
    If the constitution is bullshit and you can impinge on rights given in the constitution without even considering it because you find something else more important, you just don’t value freedom.

    It’s likely you don’t believe that but you are just so stubborn that you will not accept and opinion, even a neutral one that doesn’t just agree with whatever you think and ignite the consequences.
    This has been very enlightening.
    I now realize there is simply no point in discussing anything with you, because you simply don’t have honest conversations. You admit you know little about football yet dig your heels in the sand about what you think, you face a discussion with someone not on either side of a topic and refuse to even consider the other side or the consequences your viewpoint creates.
    Now I understand why you refuse to answer questions.
    The constitution is bullshit. That says it all.

    Look I’m just not going to have discussions with you any longer. It is pointless and the board doesn’t need that. I would appreciate if you do not respond to any of my posts because I will not be responding back, but you may well decide that you want to “win” an unopposed argument so if that’s you have at it.
    I am done.
     
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  5. A Defiant Goose

    A Defiant Goose In the Starting Line-Up

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    People on the pro-2A side are also leery of compromise because it seems like the compromise is always two things:

    1. Not really a compromise. A compromise means I would get something in return. You want to ban people from the no fly list and people under 21 from buying rifles? Ok, but in return I want national concealed carry reciprocity and legalization of fully automatic firearms. Too many times these "compromises" turn out to be "Give up these rifles and rifle accessories and in return we won't throw you in prison."

    2. The compromises end up being called "loopholes" a couple of years later. MA "compromised" with an assault weapons ban at the end of the federal AWB in 2004. They defined features which make up an assault weapon (in short, having 2 or more features such as detachable magazine or adjustable stock, etc). In return, gun companies started selling MA-compliant rifles that looked like "assault" weapons but functionally fit the rules of not being an assault weapon as MA defined it. Then we got the Pulse club shooting in Florida and the AG decided we were using a loophole in the law and decided to ban all those semiautomatic rifles entirely. The masses clap and applaud as their tyrants strip away their own rights. Then they wonder why gun owners don't want to give up a single inch to them.
     
  6. PP2

    PP2 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    That's your opinion. You took his posts personally.
     
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  7. PP2

    PP2 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    That's where the lack of a nationwide background check, owner competency test, etc. etc. hurts those cities/states that are trying. As I mentioned to you, why would I waste time/money going to Brookline to buy a gun when I can just go to a gun show up in NH and buy from someone's "personal collection" without even as much as a receipt, and just bring it back to Brookline? If the cops in Brookline catch me with it, I'll just say this AR-15 is my great, grand-father's, who used it in the civil war, and there would be nothing they could do about it.
     
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  8. A Defiant Goose

    A Defiant Goose In the Starting Line-Up

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    Because literally you can't do that and it's illegal. If you can't own a gun in Brookline you can't go to NH and buy one. A gun store wouldn't sell it to you and a private seller would be breaking the law.

    Moreover, all other things aside, if you are not federally prohibited from buying it in the first place, you SHOULD be able to do all that.
     
  9. PP2

    PP2 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    I did not say constitutional rights, I said the constitutional issue specifically relating to guns.

    You are whining that I am simply yanking your chain instead of participating in a serious discussion, but that's only because you aren't debating for debate's sake or to actually learn something- you're just hyperfocused on disqualifying points on sheer technicalities.

    If you want to have a serious discussion and keep your attitude out of it, and try your best to stay on subject, I'm down for that.

    Gun control is not taking guns away from people, indiscriminately. It is simply common sense- if you commit a felony, or domestic violence, or if you fail a competency or mental health test, you will not be able to own a gun. Simple as that. It will not prevent people from getting a gun if they really want one, any more than driving tests will prevent people from getting into a car if they really want to, but it does have beneficial effects. Research shows that, period. There is overwhelming evidence that shows that, period.

    But if this is not done nationwide, or comprehensively, it is useless. I'll just go to NH if I want an AR-15.

    Now, the constitutional issues are bullshit- the NRA is conflating gun control with loss of freedom which is utterly horseshit.

    My freedom is self-determined. It's not contingent on whether I own a gun or not.

    Example: the Arab Spring revolution started in Tunisia, in 2010. Ben Ali’s government toppled after many years of dictatorial rule.

    But get this:

    Tunisia has the lowest gun ownership rate in the world.

    What does this prove? You don't need guns to topple corrupt governments. That's a 17th, 18th century idea which is long outdated. That's why our forefathers left the constitution open to amendments, and to be revised where/when necessary.
     
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    Last edited: Aug 29, 2018
  10. PP2

    PP2 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    You are not breaking the law if you are selling the gun as a individual, rather than a dealer. That's a fact.

    That's why a lot of individuals bring their "personal collection" to gun shows to sell. No receipts, no nothing, just a cash transaction and boom, you're home free.
     
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  11. A Defiant Goose

    A Defiant Goose In the Starting Line-Up

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    You're breaking the law if you're the buyer though. Your scenario suggests creating more laws to restrict people who already are not going to abide by those laws and the only ones who will be affected by it are people who do. Now do you see why it's useless?
     
  12. PP2

    PP2 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    How am I breaking the law?
     
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  13. A Defiant Goose

    A Defiant Goose In the Starting Line-Up

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    Because if you live in MA and you can't own a Glock 19 but go to NH and buy one privately, you're breaking the law by coming back to MA. You might be able to get away with it from the seller's standpoint but you're still breaking the law
     
  14. PP2

    PP2 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Who's going to bust me? Will anyone pull me over? Come to my house?
     
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  15. A Defiant Goose

    A Defiant Goose In the Starting Line-Up

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    Such are the benefits of not caring about the law. I'm glad you're starting to come to terms with this lol. I had to refresh my mind and look this up, but so you know it's also illegal to sell to an out of state resident without the use of an FFL. So the whole situation you came up with is just totally already illegal
     
  16. PP2

    PP2 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    How is this "totally already illegal" mindset going to stop someone who's determined, from acquiring an AR-15 at a gunshow from an unregistered seller, buying a bump stock and high cap mag off the internet, and just heading to Brookline to shoot up the local school?
     
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  17. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Josh Gordon's locker is next to Brady's. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yep. People that are hell bent on killing other people don’t obey the laws. Wait...
     
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  18. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Josh Gordon's locker is next to Brady's. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think it’s a swell idea though. We get to disarm the populace that only has these weapons for defense purposes while putting some extra money in arms dealers’ and gangs’ pockets while those who want some extra firepower have to go just a little bit out of the way (usually by way of Craigslist and private sellers on the street) will just get it anyway. Just like all the strict drug laws and the war on drugs were supposed to rid the American population of narcotics. The cartels aren’t making money hand over fist because of those policies. Nope. Not a bit. Just like Prohibition was supposed to rid America of its sinful alcohol habits. The mob totally didn’t rise to power when they cornered the market on that. Not at all.
     
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  19. A Defiant Goose

    A Defiant Goose In the Starting Line-Up

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    I don't know, what's to stop that same killer from renting a u haul and running it into a crowd of elementary school kids? What do you suggest we do? If you want to ban all guns just say so and we can work from there
     
  20. PP2

    PP2 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    I've already mentioned what I thought was a common sense approach, and no, it doesn't entail taking guns away from everyone.
     

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