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Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by fnordcircle, Mar 28, 2019.

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  1. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Absolutely. You hit that right on the head.
     
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  2. Ice_Ice_Brady

    Ice_Ice_Brady PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You’re right. It was a nearly impossible task to wrap this up in seven episodes.

    I just can’t handle the absurd battle scenes, like Jamie being essentially dead yet Euron basically lets him stab him to death as well, laughing about it. It’s insulting to viewers that you could actually believe this, Andy it’s solely to move the plot along so Jamie can die romantically with Cersei, who is so who is somehow the only survivor in the entire castle despite having no armor. How lucky that we end up with her and Jamie in the end...didn’t see that coming.

    The Hound vs The Mountain was like watching the most cliched light saber scene ever from Star Wars.

    There’s a lot of stuff you can chalk up to needing to rush towards a resolution, but there’s a lot of stuff you can chalk up to head scratching horrible writing. I just can’t imagine these writers reading these scripts have being okay with them. They’re such sht.
     
  3. Ice_Ice_Brady

    Ice_Ice_Brady PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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  4. Clonamery

    Clonamery PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think as long as Rachel doesn’t go to Paris and gets back with Ross, I’m ok with anything else that goes on.
     
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  5. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Florida Man PatsFans.com Supporter

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    RT has this as a 50%. I wouldn’t say that it’s that bad but I do agree with the overall synopsis - that the show continues to suffer from too much plot stuffed into one episode. That’s, again, what happened here. It’s a mix of writer stupidity and the season only having six episodes. If it’s only six episodes, each episode should have been at least two hours long. The episode overall was very well acted and the special effects were outstanding, however.

    Cersei’s death should have been much more horrific. In the vein of Goffrey, Ramsey, etc. The writers went a bit overboard on the “poetic justice” angle on that one with the walls caving in on her and Jamie. The two episode heel turn for Dany was the worst, though. Sansa became hardened over several seasons. Cersei became even more hardened over several seasons. Both Jamie and the Hound softened over several seasons. These are character arcs. Dany went from a woman who freed innocents and burned Khals alive to prevent rape to burning innocents and children (even after capturing the throne) at the snap of a finger. That’s because the season is extremely rushed. And now, with one episode left and so much plot left to uncover, I don’t see how there’s any way they can do enough to wrap things up and leave their fans satisfied. It’s a shame.
     
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  6. BaconGrundleCandy

    BaconGrundleCandy Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Been saying since last year. Its too rushed. D&D had this 63 or w/e hours etched in stone. Should have definitely been longer epis or more.
    Jon & Dany was the biggest rush job though. Those two actually work well together. I loved Clarke the last 2 epis. She's obviously not the best actress on the show but thought the tension between her & Jon was real.

    Agreed about the acting & cgi though. Very well done this epi.
     
  7. maust1013

    maust1013 In the Starting Line-Up

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  8. Steve:Section 102

    Steve:Section 102 In the Starting Line-Up

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    My thoughts on the whole thing:
    • Phenomenal production values. Gorgeous. It really looked like Drogon burned down a city.
    • The CleganeBowl was gorgeously shot. Apocalyptic. I really wanted The Hound to win, but I'll take the "push". Loved The Mountain giving Cercei the F.U. look.
    • I have no problem with Dany losing it. Varys and Tyrion hinted at it for a while now, and she's wanted to burn King's Landing to ground since she's had dragons that could. Every time she wanted to be destructive, she was talked out of it by one of her handlers. I would've liked a little more madness for a little longer, to let Emilia Clarke dig into it, and let people like Varys and Tyrion try to protect her, let Jon wallow in her pain a little bit. You could see the paranoia at the feast after the Battle of Winterfell and the subsequent meeting with Jon by the fire. I would have liked a bit more of it, but I am ok with what they did with it.
    • Euron vs Jamie. I have maybe 2% of the issues that you guys have with it regarding Jamie living with a mortal wound. He just willed himself to Cercei, and nothing was going to keep him from getting there. I was stoked that he got to kill that arrogant eff Euron, what a rock star that guy was!
    • The Death of Cercei. That sucked. Are you kidding me? The greatest terrorist since GD Joffrey dies, whimpering, in the arms of her lover/brother? Eff dat! I think we should have had a bigger payoff, emotionally, than that. Eff'n Walder Frey got a better death than that, and all's he did was the GD Red Wedding. Dies because the Red Keep falls on her? That sucks.
    • Arya rides off after being at ground zero. That chick has been a true heroine, and if she says peace out and rides to Gendry, I would be ok with it. She's done enough. I don't need her to be the one to kill Dany.
    • Disappointed still that they left half the cast in Winterfell. I really wanted to see psycho Robin Arryn get his ass thrown thru the moon door. Maybe Brienne gives in and makes giant babies with Tormund. Maybe Bran will do more besides sit in that freakin' wheel chair and be a GD vulcan. Doubt that. What the hell is Bronn going to do, now he's hitched his wagon to the Lannister train? Somehow, I think that we aren't getting resolution to these story lines.
    • I don't hate this season as much as some. I hate some aspects of the chitty writing. Ep1 was a 1 hour reunion I didn't need. Ep2 was excellent. Ep3 was a bit of a let down, the baddest villain since Darth Vader goes out in a hour and a half. Ep4 was horrible all the way around. Last night was epic. I look forward to next Sunday and closing it out. The Mad Queen is dead, long live the Mad Queen.
     
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  9. Ice_Ice_Brady

    Ice_Ice_Brady PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I read an article explaining the reason for the huge Dany failure. Essentially the books are told from first-character perspective, so Dany’s descent into madness is much more apparent throughout the entire series. If you consider that the show runners might not have even realized the ultimate conclusion, they devoted almost no time into translating this to screen time. Then to find out from GRRM that Dany goes all out bad Targaryen, it’s too late. But even still, it felt like an epic gaffe that at least episodes 1-4 should have foreshadowed.

    I mean, the viewers are left believing that a million people probably live if Dany has just gotten laid the night before by her nephew, who instead appeared to be on his period. And the show could have very easily set it up so Dany at least had a choice - that killing all these people (as a human shield created by Cersei) was at least necessary to gain the throne. That would have been logical, and Dany’s character could have been considered ruthless yet still layered, rather than pure, illogical evil. They spent seven seasons focusing on her compassion, her wanting to make the world better, to rule the common people and free the slaves with fairness. You could understand her making a massively damning decision that the ends justified the means here, that her thirst for the throne overruled her goodness and compassion, but instead she just decided to genocide the city for no good reason. No one is buying this or can understand wtf the writers were thinking,

    All the characters lost their identities in this episode. Did Jamie not kill the mad king to save the city from the mad king? Now he never really liked the people? Got it.

    Euron, who somehow survived the deadly dragon fire from his ship, superhumanly swam to shore and just knew that Jamie would be there at that exact place and time, then decides it might be cool to just let Jamie kill him anyway after already (unrealistically) winning the fight.

    Arya travels a thousand miles to fulfill her lifelong mission to kill Cersei, avenging her father’s death, then turns around with about 100 feet to go, after some silly speech.

    Breaking Bad is still the best show ever. They knew where it was going, developed the character arcs perfectly, and didn’t sell out change the laws of the universe so that popular characters could square off in absurd shock-value scenes.
     
  10. Ice_Ice_Brady

    Ice_Ice_Brady PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I wasn’t really “rooting” for any of the characters. I was more just rooting for consistency that I could continue to be entertained by a great story within the amazing the universe they created, consistent with its previous natural laws and writing quality. That’s why I felt the episode sucked. The show was never, to me, about the viewers getting the justice they felt they deserved, getting to see Cleganebowl, Jamie and Cersei reunited, the heel turn, etc. Those things could all happen and it would be fine, but not with a clear agenda for them to happen, which was some obvious and distracting because the plot-driven nature of the the last two episodes made the actual characters and fictional universe caricatures of themselves. As many critics have noted, that’s on the writers to create a organic story that fulfills resolutions and also flows with the previous 70+ episodes.
     

  11. Ice_Ice_Brady

    Ice_Ice_Brady PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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  12. Steve:Section 102

    Steve:Section 102 In the Starting Line-Up

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    To your points:
    Dany's decent to genocide for no good reason: she's wanted to burn KL to the ground since she had dragons that could, and was always talked out of it. Save for the decision to stay in Mureen, she's always been the one to rush in torch chit, and always talked out of it by her handlers. I agree I would've liked a more definitive crazy streak, but you can look at the fact that she killed her brother, burned down the Khalisar or whatever the the hell it was, murdered the dude to get the unsullied army among the signs that she would do what it takes. More than once (i'm not going back to quote the episode #'s) she wanted to burn KL to the ground and was talked out of it, usually by Tyrion. It was always on her list of things to do.

    Euron survives: I thought it was clear he was blown clear off the ship just like Davos was in the Battle of Blackwater. I don't know about a super human swim. He's an iron born islander. I will allow the possibility he could make that swim. Further, I am willing to allow that he happens upon Jamie, dealing Jamie a mortal wound, and dies in the process.

    Arya: yeah ok, when you say it like that, sure. I am willing to allow that The Hound had become a twisted father figure type that she respected and listened to him. You say that you're not rooting for someone, but this point sounds like you're rooting for Arya. I am ok with her listening to him, as I would have been if she follwed thru with your point. As I said earlier, she's done enough.
     
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  13. Ice_Ice_Brady

    Ice_Ice_Brady PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I appreciate that not everyone has the same taste when it comes to entertainment. I thought it was absurd, but I’m glad you enjoyed it more than me.

    Big picture absurdity was spared in my post, but it’s such an elephant in the room. Dany could have taken over King’s Landing the moment her dragons became full grown. She torched the entire city with one dragon which somehow avoided all those scorpions (though the other was hit on 3/3 bullseyes...wtf.). But she didn’t even need all these armies to destroy KL and could have attacked it with three dragons any time.

    Dany also just gave up her pursuit of KL and risked her own death to save Winterfell, a city she had no attachment to outside of Jon. In addition, she could have destroyed the entire army of wights immediately with her two dragons torching them the moment they charged. Clearly the powers and vulnerabilities of the dragons are laughably inconsistent to fit what makes a more convenient plot line.

    I have no problem with Dany’s heel turn. It was a good conclusion and justified. It’s just that episode 5 makes you question seven seasons worth of buildup for the sake of grandiose brutality and some stunning decisions by the writers to answer the how and whys of the show.
     
  14. LJRomanoff

    LJRomanoff Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    She's always been the bad guy. Someone traipsing around building a massive army to seize a throne by force is not a good guy.
     
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  15. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Florida Man PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The one thing I really liked in this episode was, once she made up her mind to burn the city to the ground, they didn’t show her directly again. Everything they showed was from ground level to capture how ****ing terrifying that would be. It gave her and the dragon a supernatural element.
     
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  16. Steve:Section 102

    Steve:Section 102 In the Starting Line-Up

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    I never took it as an effort to save Winterfell. It was the dead vs. the living, and Winterfell was just the first northern defend-able outpost. I agree that her wiping out the scorpions in one ridiculous pass was weak. Meh. Whatever. I tend to look at these type of "popcorn" movies as escapism. Unless it's utterly ridiculous (Jon not defending the decision to let the troops to heal, Dany not seeing the Iron fleet when she's looking on that direction just before Rhaegal is killed) I can usually give shows/movies a pass. I'll say "that's weak" and move on. Princess Leia's Mary Poppins moment in the last Star Wars comes to mind. I hate it, it's not "realistic", so I choose to ignore it and move on.
     
  17. chris_in_sunnyvale

    chris_in_sunnyvale In the Starting Line-Up

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    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. fnordcircle

    fnordcircle The poster who James White said inspires him. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yeah I've watched that like 10 times today, it's great for the first 2 minutes especially.
     
  19. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Florida Man PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Watched the episode again last night. The part where it shows Cersei with the fleet burning in the background gives you an idea of how far Euron would have had to swim to get back to shore. I don’t even think Phelps could have done that in his prime. Much less while wearing a heavy leather jacket and boots, and with enough energy left over to get into a fist fight within seconds of coming on shore.
     
  20. markd

    markd PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You're missing a key factor- Euron is so full of hot air that he would float like an inner tube. ;);)
     

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