Jags players arrested in UK bar brawl; game starts in 12 hours

[PP2]

Sure it does. If that wasn't the case, you wouldn't have gains and increases with multiple ethnicities closing the gap on white students with post secondary enrollment and education.



That's a part of the age we live in - data analysis. Companies pull advanced data and analytics about the customers with whom they do business. In that vein, I can't blame them for taking into account the median income of the neighborhood the person is living in nor their race. Their analytics will show payback rates and periods of similar people with whom they've done business with in the past. If someone is requesting a $60k loan and their neighborhood shows a median income of $30k, why should the bank lend them that money?



It's only the exception rather than the norm because most people aren't willing to patiently wait, go through the process, take advantage of it, take longer doing it, and work while they do it. Per a Time Magazine article dated 4/25/16, roughly 60% of employers nation-wide offer tuition reimbursement programs with similar caps to what my company has. That means that the majority of employers, on average, in any given area of the country, offer reimbursement programs of some sort. That's because advanced analytics show the benefits to companies of such programs. More here: Paying Their Workers' College Tuition Can Pay Off for Companies



Oh, I don't need to Google it. I went that route for a good reason. As I said before, it would have been much less stressful on me at the time to simply go the federal loan route and become a full time student. But I didn't want to rack up that debt because, by the time I got out, I was going to be in my late 20's and wasn't sure what direction my life was going to take me in at that time (I.E., marriage, house buying, car payments, etc.) coupled with the fact that I already had some loan debt from my previous foray in college for a job that I had quickly become disenchanted by. That said, they are available and the majority of students that wish to take advantage of them. Roughly 70% of students nationwide graduate with student loan debt. It's not optimal, but it is a way out should you wish to take it.

But, getting back to a previous point, I have a hard time squaring the fact that roughly 60% of employers (and this number is supposedly increasing with analytics that show the benefits of offering reimbursement programs) offer tuition reimbursement and yet 70% of graduate and undergraduate students hold about $1.5 trillion in student loan debt. Why? The only conclusion that I can come to is that it's because taking out loan debt is the easier path of the two. But, again, those are two ways through higher education and out of poverty. The other is through scholarships, which you address below...

Sounds like an interesting read and I would like to research it a bit more when I have time. That being said, that data is between 10 and 14 years old, from what I can tell. A lot changes in a decade. I went to look up more recent data from the U.S. department of education and here were a few things that stood out...

However...

Simply put, we wouldn't see these kinds of gains if the system was designed to keep people (and specifically minorities) in poverty.

The mere fact that you had to go through a lot simply to get the education you wanted is evidence enough that the system works against you, not for you.

Why is college student debt even such a thing? Why does this country punish people for trying to learn? Trying to succeed?

Wouldn't producing smart people keep this country on top, economy-wise?

And no, it's not a matter of money. This country spent $14 trillion over 18 years on two completely useless wars that have achieved absolutely nothing. Just ask my friend, a photojournalist who recently went to Kabul on a photo op (she was hired by the military to paint a "Situation Normal" picture) and came back very disenchanted. Unfortunately because of the NDA she signed with them, she can't share her opinions.

 

[Kontradiction]

The mere fact that you had to go through a lot simply to get the education you wanted is evidence enough that the system works against you, not for you.

I chose that route because I didn't want student loan debt and because I couldn't apply for Bright Futures again. I could have also gone the military route, put in 4 years, and benefitted from the G.I. bill. If you want to get out of poverty and get your education, you can either go the loan route, the scholarship route, the military route, the route I did, or pay your own way. No path is easy. Each requires a ton of work. The benefits of life typically do. I'm not a big believer in coddling people or treating them like delicate flowers. I'm a firm believer that you have to work very hard for what you get in life. As such, I see people as incredibly resourceful when they either really want or really need to be. As I said, rising out of poverty is very possible in this country. People do it every single day. But you have to work your ass off in order to do it and that turns off a significant percentage of our population.

Why is college student debt even such a thing? Why does this country punish people for trying to learn? Trying to succeed?

You're not going to get an argument from me on that. College tuition costs and all the ancillary costs (such as books, software, etc.) that go along with it are ridiculous. That said, college is far from the only way out of poverty.

Wouldn't producing smart people keep this country on top, economy-wise?

The U.S. currently ranks 6th with 45.67% of the population achieving anything from 2-year or vocational degrees or 4-year degrees. Above them are Korea, the U.K., Israel, Japan, and Canada. Canada is #1 overall. Comparing Canadian and American economies, you'll be surprised. Canadian workers, on average, are about 82% as productive as their American counterparts. Canada only has the production advantage over the U.S. in two sectors - construction and natural resources. The U.S. has the edge virtually everywhere else with the biggest advantages coming in manufacturing and finance sectors (which is impressive considering just how much of the manufacturing sector has been outsourced in recent decades). I don't think there is any proof whatsoever that a more educated populace is better for a country's economy. As a matter of fact, what we're starting to see in places like South Korea is a saturation of the population that has either undergrad degrees, graduate degrees, or even PhDs that have to immigrate to places like the United States to find work.

Sources: The 10 most educated countries in the world and Comparison of Canadian and American economies - Wikipedia

And no, it's not a matter of money. This country spent $14 trillion over 18 years on two completely useless wars that have achieved absolutely nothing. Just ask my friend, a photojournalist who recently went to Kabul on a photo op (she was hired by the military to paint a "Situation Normal" picture) and came back very disenchanted. Unfortunately because of the NDA she signed with them, she can't share her opinions.

I'm not sure how this is relevant to the topic at hand.

 

[archstanton543]

Soooooo....about them Jags. Pretty crazy, right?

 

[chasa]

I would hope that this info will put to bed any "How will they be able to be competitive if they have to play a bunch of road games in a row" nonsense to bed.

Good teams get the job done.

 

[Soliel]

Imagine Tom Brady and gronk in a brawl in Mexico City. We’d never hear the end of it and lose ten yrs of draft picks

 

[supafly]

I would hope that this info will put to bed any "How will they be able to be competitive if they have to play a bunch of road games in a row" nonsense to bed.

Good teams get the job done.

Basically, they went on the road to CLE and then to London. Then they came home for the bye before having to play at Seattle, last weekend.

The placement of the bye helped, as did having the Browns on the schedule. I’m not saying that their 6-2 record isn’t impressive, but let’s not act as if this is the norm for most teams’ level of success on the road, either.

 

[Wheelman]

This thread has gone from having me giggle and laugh to feeling sad and angry.

 

[DarrylS]

What I find interesting is that it is now 12 days after the incident, and Rogah and his minions have not announced any consequences for this apparent misbehavior which taints the "squeeky clean" image of the NFL....

Or maybe they are just going to take their word for it, after all "it was just a misunderstanding"... (reminds me of a Phil Collins song)

 

[QuantumMechanic]

No corporation has ever paid a cent of income tax (or any tax). Sure, the corp may write the check, but the tax is actually collectively being borne by the shareholders, employees, customers, and vendors, depending on the relative elasticities of capital, labor, demand, etc.

For example, if the corp makes a product that people are desperate to buy, it’s going to be the customers paying most of the corporate tax in the form of higher prices. On the flip side, if the corp makes a commodity product it is going to be the shareholders and employees paying the tax in the form of lower dividends/capital gains and lower wages (the more replaceable the workers are, the more they’ll be paying the tax).

“Tax incidence.”

 

[PP2]

I chose that route because I didn't want student loan debt and because I couldn't apply for Bright Futures again. I could have also gone the military route, put in 4 years, and benefitted from the G.I. bill. If you want to get out of poverty and get your education, you can either go the loan route, the scholarship route, the military route, the route I did, or pay your own way. No path is easy. Each requires a ton of work. The benefits of life typically do. I'm not a big believer in coddling people or treating them like delicate flowers. I'm a firm believer that you have to work very hard for what you get in life. As such, I see people as incredibly resourceful when they either really want or really need to be. As I said, rising out of poverty is very possible in this country. People do it every single day. But you have to work your ass off in order to do it and that turns off a significant percentage of our population.



You're not going to get an argument from me on that. College tuition costs and all the ancillary costs (such as books, software, etc.) that go along with it are ridiculous. That said, college is far from the only way out of poverty.



The U.S. currently ranks 6th with 45.67% of the population achieving anything from 2-year or vocational degrees or 4-year degrees. Above them are Korea, the U.K., Israel, Japan, and Canada. Canada is #1 overall. Comparing Canadian and American economies, you'll be surprised. Canadian workers, on average, are about 82% as productive as their American counterparts. Canada only has the production advantage over the U.S. in two sectors - construction and natural resources. The U.S. has the edge virtually everywhere else with the biggest advantages coming in manufacturing and finance sectors (which is impressive considering just how much of the manufacturing sector has been outsourced in recent decades). I don't think there is any proof whatsoever that a more educated populace is better for a country's economy. As a matter of fact, what we're starting to see in places like South Korea is a saturation of the population that has either undergrad degrees, graduate degrees, or even PhDs that have to immigrate to places like the United States to find work.

Sources: The 10 most educated countries in the world and Comparison of Canadian and American economies - Wikipedia



I'm not sure how this is relevant to the topic at hand.

Ooopss... forgot to respond to this. Give me a bit of time.

 

[chasa]

Basically, they went on the road to CLE and then to London. Then they came home for the bye before having to play at Seattle, last weekend.

The placement of the bye helped, as did having the Browns on the schedule. I’m not saying that their 6-2 record isn’t impressive, but let’s not act as if this is the norm for most teams’ level of success on the road, either.

lets take it for what it is. Proof that a team is more then capable of being competitive during long road stretches.

 

[Tony2046]

No corporation has ever paid a cent of income tax (or any tax). Sure, the corp may write the check, but the tax is actually collectively being borne by the shareholders, employees, customers, and vendors, depending on the relative elasticities of capital, labor, demand, etc.

For example, if the corp makes a product that people are desperate to buy, it’s going to be the customers paying most of the corporate tax in the form of higher prices. On the flip side, if the corp makes a commodity product it is going to be the shareholders and employees paying the tax in the form of lower dividends/capital gains and lower wages (the more replaceable the workers are, the more they’ll be paying the tax).

“Tax incidence.”

That is still a tax regardless of how it is distributed. No tax means higher dividends, lower product pricing or whatever but more competitive globally either way.

 

[Tony2046]

The problem with that is: all the big corporations are shipping as many jobs out of country, as possible. Why pay $7.50 an hour in this country when you can pay 13 cents an hour elsewhere?

My idea for this is- if your company outsources more than a reasonable amount of your jobs out of country, you will receive a massive tariff or taxation of the goods you sell in this country. But of course this will never happen.

Corporations are simply interested in making the most money as possible. We agree. They are not, for the most part, patriotic and could not care less how they gain their profits. We agree. And they shouldn't care.

I think it's fair to assume those two statements. If not let me know.

Regarding shipping jobs overseas:

1. It is not one $7.50 employee to a 13 cent ratio. It's one US employee to multiple Asian employees on all levels. Operator, Technical, Engineering, etc.... etc...

2. Precision products suffer quality wise when manufactured in Asia. If you need a precision made part or parts you will be severely disappointed with the products manufactured in Asia. T-shirts are great. Piston rings are not.

-- Note: When I say Asia I do not include Japan.. They usually produce high quality parts but also charge a high quality price and sometimes more expensive than US made parts.

Asian quality rankings:

Japan = Great
Taiwan = Good
China = Cheap and lack precision tolerance

3. Human rights + environmental issues. Asian companies do not respect or protect their employees or have employee protecting laws as the US does. Asian companies do not respect or protect their environment or have environmental laws as the US does.

If you want to tax something tax Asian imports from companies that do not care about Human rights or Environmental issues. Tax the imports. Make it tougher for Nike and other companies to import their products while they abuse Asia's lack of concern for both.

Reduce or eliminate corporate tax and you'll get back jobs that were shipped to Asia but also gain jobs from the European Union etc...

 

[PP2]

Corporations are simply interested in making the most money as possible. We agree. They are not, for the most part, patriotic and could not care less how they gain their profits. We agree. And they shouldn't care.

Reduce or eliminate corporate tax and you'll get back jobs that were shipped to Asia but also gain jobs from the European Union etc...

Don't you think those two statements contradict each other? Eliminating corporate taxes does nothing. They don't pay any right now, anyway. Even if we remove taxes, they would not bring jobs back, in the interest of maximizing profit.

Apple is far and away the worst offender across the spectrum from exploiting slave wages to ignoring human rights, and they pay zero in corporate taxes. All their assets are stored offshore.

I think taxing imports would probably be the way to go, as you say.

But also I think it would be good to treat companies as foreign entities and tax accordingly if most of your assets are stored offshore, and too much of your labor is outsourced.

 

[Tony2046]

Don't you think those two statements contradict each other? Eliminating corporate taxes does nothing. They don't pay any right now, anyway. Even if we remove taxes, they would not bring jobs back, in the interest of maximizing profit.

Apple is far and away the worst offender across the spectrum from exploiting slave wages to ignoring human rights, and they pay zero in corporate taxes. All their assets are stored offshore.

I think taxing imports would probably be the way to go, as you say.

But also I think it would be good to treat companies as foreign entities and tax accordingly if most of your assets are stored offshore, and too much of your labor is outsourced.

It is not a contradiction if you consider the flat tax or tax individuals and not corporations.

Right now the Corporate tax rate is approximately 21% IIRC. It's one of the highest in the world. Regardless of how some manipulate the taxation somebody pays it. Reducing it and switching it to a flat tax removes the loopholes. Overly simplistic I know. Also let's not forget that smaller businesses do not share the same tax loopholes or overseas accounts etc.. so reducing small business corp taxes makes it easier for start ups.

Import taxes etc.. are a tricky business and I'm not sure where the balance should be but I agree that is a tool they need to use but carefully.

This administration cut the Corporate tax rate, renegotiated trade agreements and right now manufacturing jobs have been making a comeback. Unemployment rate is low. Etc.. etc.. It's a good start but we have a long way to go.

Good conversation. Thanks

Btw, I'm not faulting or crediting any past or present administrations. Just discussing the economy and what I support .

Typed from my phone so sorry for any errors .