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OT : European Soccer League (ESL)

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Sep 12th

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h0c2000

On the Game Day Roster
This league didn't age well. This is its newborn picture

 

Deus Irae

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According to The Sun, all but two teams are out. Only Real Madrid and Barcelona are holding out. Now I want to see how many scalps get taken.
 

Scotty

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
A few chief execs have already quit (Man Utd and Juventus) either immediately or at the end of the season. More to follow. But.........something tells me this is not the end of such a move. They have got their fingers burned but I think this is not the last attempt , they have just tested the water.
 

Bill Lee

What, me worry?
A few chief execs have already quit (Man Utd and Juventus) either immediately or at the end of the season. More to follow. But.........something tells me this is not the end of such a move. They have got their fingers burned but I think this is not the last attempt , they have just tested the water.
If this article is true, the big clubs got most of what they want via 'Champions League Reform':


Basically it says the top seven finishers in EPL are effectively guaranteed a CL spot. Basically, it's a fantasy to think your local town/county club is gonna push anyone out of the top ranks. The coefficient math favors the long term success that money usually buys. The reform reduces the risk the money men are afraid of, at the same time stifles the upward motion of fresh blood that 'grass roots' fans claim is vital. Yet there is no doubt in my mind that CL will still be incredibly popular, even with more bottom rung teams now getting into it.

Seems to me the fans are happy that they killed off the worst of the two evils, but that means the big clubs are up 1-0 on the evil scoreboard.

I'm sure some execs will take some hits, it's overall a dreadful PR look, but I bet the money men find a way to take care of them one way or the other and will view it as the cost of doing business.
 

Scotty

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
I think Perez of Real Madrid has a historic beef with UEFA and wants more power for the clubs (his club !). They under estimated the reaction from the fans but I dont think this will go away but will reappear in a different guise
 

resdubwhite

In the Starting Line-Up
John Henry taking a beating
rightly so.
His apology if you want to call it that came across as insincere and half hearted.
Same at Arsenal United and spurs. All Chief execs asked to leave committees at UEFA and Premier League. will be interesting to see what legislation is enacted and how the fans proceed with operation extraction. Seems to be more muted protest in Italy and Spain.
Honestly don't see how Glazers survive at United (but that could be just wishful thinking)
Running an organisation that was extremely profitable, leveraged their buy out and now has a debt of nearly 800 Million pounds. It should be criminal.
That being said, I think this is a wake up call to associations, clubs and players alike. Game has become unmanageable. for those thinking they lost rd 1 and will be back. No chance. Populist governments will see this as an easy thing to legislate for with almost 100% support.
If this article is true, the big clubs got most of what they want via 'Champions League Reform':
worth noting those reforms were agreed 3 days before Super League. And the increase in money agreed post super league will spread across all participants. How the coefficient works will be interesting all the same.
 

borg

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This will not be the last attempt to establish a super league.
The relegation system in Europe is fascinating but is it financially debilitating for all but the established teams in each league.
And even then, some of the biggest teams in the world are crumbling financially.
One example.........Barcelona with over a billion in debt.
Teams will continue to seek opportunities to secure financial stability and that's what the ESL offered.

The Brits scoff at no relegation leagues like the NFL with its guaranteed revenues for each team because in their minds teams aren't incentivized to win and success is only measured on balance sheets.
And while I understand their skepticism, American pro sports has the financial stability European soccer sorely wishes it had.
The locals are entrenched but change is inevitable.
Unfortunately for owners like John Henry who are accustomed to the quick moving adjustments found in capitalism, European socialism moves at a different pace with different priorities.
 

resdubwhite

In the Starting Line-Up
The relegation system in Europe is fascinating but is it financially debilitating for all but the established teams in each league.
as it should be.
And even then, some of the biggest teams in the world are crumbling financially.
One example.........Barcelona with over a billion in debt.
Yet they continue to spend like a sailor on shore leave.
Teams will continue to seek opportunities to secure financial stability and that's what the ESL offered.
which is fine for 5% of tradtional football fans. **** the other 95% I think not.
The Brits scoff at no relegation leagues like the NFL with its guaranteed revenues for each team because in their minds teams aren't incentivized to win and success is only measured on balance sheets.
The Brits just want to run their leagues the way they see fit. they see american ownership and the implementation of franchises as an end to the game they love. Ultimately franchises can be moved. Pure marketing move. and football is more than that. I say this without a hint of embarrassment. Its a religion to these people.
And while I understand their skepticism, American pro sports has the financial stability European soccer sorely wishes it had.
The locals are entrenched but change is inevitable.
Maybe, maybe not. Who is to say one platform that works well in one area will apply in another area. Northwest of england would find it very hard to maintain 3 "franchises". they can sustain many football clubs.
Unfortunately for owners like John Henry who are accustomed to the quick moving adjustments found in capitalism, European socialism moves at a different pace with different priorities.
Socialism... Seriously. Have you not seen who is in Government in the UK? This is not an act of socialism, merely an act of not wringing every last penny out of customers. Its more a reaction to hyper capitalism and support for the traditional economics that have sustained football far longer than American football.
 

Bill Lee

What, me worry?
John Henry taking a beating
This is the man that traded Mookie Betts to the Dodgers.

He sure is doing his legacy a lot of damage in recent times.

worth noting those reforms were agreed 3 days before Super League. And the increase in money agreed post super league will spread across all participants. How the coefficient works will be interesting all the same.
The timing is interesting. Clearly the SL did not come together overnight, JPMC and its billions takes a while to engage. Same can be said for CL reform, cooking it up took time. You would have to think some information was flowing between the people driving both efforts, no?

I'm no expert on the coefficient, googled up this link:


It has a five year accumulation period so it allows big clubs the occasional bad run of form without "CL relegation" and makes it harder for "one hit wonders" to come out of nowhere and stick.

Populist legislation sounds like a slippery slope. May be good for a quick course correction, but if things still go bad then the gov't risks being blamed, being asked for money to sort it all out, etc.

I'm not sure kicking execs out of committees is the way to go. As the old saying goes, keep your friends close, and your enemies closer.

I don't know if I'd call this "round 1", but it certainly was a learning event for everyone involved. Rich owners learned a lot about how the leagues and how the fans can react to their moves. I doubt they'll try something this brazen any time soon. I think they'll continue to test the limits of what they can and cannot do, what does and does not draw negative reactions. Their money allows them to employ a lot of clever people, and the motivation to make even more money just isn't going away.
 

Deus Irae

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Barca statement

Very disappointing. Maybe Juve/barca and Madrid will play each other every week from now until whenever. I'm cool with that.

The problem with these sorts of statements is that everyone on the planet knows that

and resolve all those issues, always for the good of the general interest of the football world


Is complete and utter ********.
 
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Bill Lee

What, me worry?
Barca statement

Very disappointing. Maybe Juve/barca and Madrid will play each other every week from now until whenever. I'm cool with that.
Maybe we can stop harping on this being an event driven by rich American owners now?

I listened to two different podcasts on this now (Bill Simmons w/ Chris Ryan, Andrew Brandt w/ Taylor Twellman) and it was pointed out that the ones that tapped out first are the truly wealthy owners, and the ones that are keeping the embers burning are the ones that are really over extended.
 

resdubwhite

In the Starting Line-Up
Maybe we can stop harping on this being an event driven by rich American owners now?
Why not? When the agitators in the EPL for example were all american owned clubs? That's not like fan fiction. That's like a reported you know erghh. FACT.
Kroenke/Henry and the Glazer Family. All American. One owns an MLB franchise and 2 own NFL franchises. there is an argument that the two clubs that started the retreat did so because they understood the tradition and community of their clubs far more than their american co-conspirators.
I listened to two different podcasts on this now (Bill Simmons w/ Chris Ryan, Andrew Brandt w/ Taylor Twellman) and it was pointed out that the ones that tapped out first are the truly wealthy owners, and the ones that are keeping the embers burning are the ones that are really over extended.
All well known for their football (soccer) reportage... I kid. But that summation is wrong.
The first ones to pull out were Man city and Chelsea. Owned by Sheikh Mansour (filthy rich) and roman Abramovich (a little less but nonethless filthy rich.) They were less than convinced of the merits of the project in the first place.
This was the critical moment.
They were talked into joining the breakaway group last Thursday/Friday by representatives of Manchester United and Liverpool. American and American owners. That again is reported fact. The two major English clubs did all of the English recruiting.
The remaining English clubs decided to pull out together at the same time to save face. Do it together United we fall.
The backlash in England was massive. There was absolutely no way near the backlash in Spain, Catalonia or Italy. no way near. The over extended ones hang in there because they do not really have to admit the jig is up. Everyone knows the jig is up. There are no embers to poke.
 

resdubwhite

In the Starting Line-Up
And If you wonder why I'm upset at American ownership and why I wasn't really bothered to see Tom win another Lombardi. this video sums it up for me. the Glazer family are leeching Manchester United dry. Its bordering on criminal. the debt BTW that is being discussed there was generated when the Glazer family leveraged buy out of the club and placed all of the debt within the club.

 

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