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OT: Dolphins Owner Steven Ross Suspended, Picks Forfeited, For Tampering With Brady, Payton

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Oct 9th
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Ring 6

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I think they are kissing his a** that he's back. He helped turn that team around.

The way I see it is that Brady and his agent thought that Brady was free to leave TB after last year. I know all the Brady bashers want to call that a retirement but he never said he was retiring. That was why he said goodbye to TB only and not NE. Of course the Brady bashers even turned that into a bash-o-rama, acting like Brady was insulting the team. Then they whined because he liked the weather in Florida better. What a place.
What are you talking about? He announced his retirement.
 

Ring 6

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What evidence is there that Miami was "trying to turn Brady against New England"? They were trying to recruit him for future employment. The Miami ownership wanted Flores to throw games in 2019 so they weren't also trying to sabotage New England's season. Brady's relationship with New England was irretrievably damaged by their direct contract negotiations and Brady's impression that he was being slighted by the team one too many times. Miami was trying to recruit Brady for 2020, and considering Brady blew them off and signed with another team, he obviously wasn't that impressed with the conversations at the time.

I'd have to consider this more from the perspective of a Buccaneers fan, which I'm not (my loyalty is with Brady only), however I'd probably be very slightly annoyed with Brady but then I would remember the Super Bowl title he instantaneously brought to my team and I'd quickly get over it. New England fans have no cause for any ill feelings toward Brady, considering the decision to part ways with the team was cemented prior to any fruitless conversations with Miami, and the unprecedented success he brought to the team. By the end of the 2019 season that particular team did not look championship caliber... not Brady, not the "Boogeymen", not the coaching staff... 0% related to phone calls that only Brady was privy to.


You talking to me here? Because I never said any such thing. I don't believe "what he did" even tarnishes his 2019 season with the Patriots.


Good for Tampa Bay... holding Brady to his contractual obligation. More than what the Patriots did for their franchise... once they made the mistake of not extending Brady on a multi-year deal they should have at least made sure they got compensation for him. The no franchise clause only could have worked in Brady's favor so it made no sense for the Patriots, which I said too in 2019. For Brady's sake I'm glad they did it but from the perspective of a Patriots fan it was dumb (and that's not on Brady).
What do you think Miami was doing? Why suddenly did Brady make unBrady like comments like “I’m just an employee” or “I’m the most miserable 8-0 qb”.

The fact remains the 2019 team cratered exactly as Brady played the worst football of his career.

Yes I was talking to you because you said it didn’t bother you because it didn’t affect the team, and obviously it affected the team.


You said the Patriots made a mistake by not extending Brady. Why? What do you think would have happened the last 2 years if he had stayed and where do you think they would be this year?
What would they have done in 2020 if he stayed and they had less money and couldn’t even retain their own free agents much less improve upon the team that crawled to the end of 2019? What would 2020 have looked like with 12 mill in cap space for free agents instead of 62?
Do you think they would be closer to winning a championship today if he had stayed? Seriously? And how?
 

goheels22002

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What do you think Miami was doing? Why suddenly did Brady make unBrady like comments like “I’m just an employee” or “I’m the most miserable 8-0 qb”.

The fact remains the 2019 team cratered exactly as Brady played the worst football of his career.

Yes I was talking to you because you said it didn’t bother you because it didn’t affect the team, and obviously it affected the team.


You said the Patriots made a mistake by not extending Brady. Why? What do you think would have happened the last 2 years if he had stayed and where do you think they would be this year?
What would they have done in 2020 if he stayed and they had less money and couldn’t even retain their own free agents much less improve upon the team that crawled to the end of 2019? What would 2020 have looked like with 12 mill in cap space for free agents instead of 62?
Do you think they would be closer to winning a championship today if he had stayed? Seriously? And how?
I'm focused on your last question: "Do you think they would be closer to winning a championship today if he (Brady) has stayed?"

With Covid-19 and the opt outs, and just general grimness of the 2020 season, it's conceivable that the Patriots would have finished with the 15th pick in the draft and Mac Jones, or traded up to get him as an understudy to the 44-year-old Brady. Brady's retirement this off-season could have stuck, and they would have the big cap room this season.

It's a great question to think about in 2022.
 

lancerman

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
I'm focused on your last question: "Do you think they would be closer to winning a championship today if he (Brady) has stayed?"

With Covid-19 and the opt outs, and just general grimness of the 2020 season, it's conceivable that the Patriots would have finished with the 15th pick in the draft and Mac Jones, or traded up to get him as an understudy to the 44-year-old Brady. Brady's retirement this off-season could have stuck, and they would have the big cap room this season.

It's a great question to think about in 2022.
You have to consider that players would need to be cut and we'd have less cap space if he kept Brady on the roster the last two seasons. It wouldn't be the same team. Even if we got Mac. The problem was the Pats really needed a rebuild at that point and Brady was prohibitive so the only questions left were.

1. Could Brady maintain winning and get us Super Bowl opportunities through it?

2. Would Brady still be a viable QB to move forward with once the rebuild was done?

Both are hard to determine. Brady probably gets the 2020 team in the playoffs and I have to think the 2021 offense is better with him than a rookie. Does that mean he can make some magic happen in the playoffs? Maybe but it's hard to say. But I do think Brady with the Pats team that was pretty good at shutting down the Chiefs that year could take out a crippled Chiefs team if Brady was at the helm. Would that be enough to beat the Saints or Packers who would come out of the NFC that year? Idk. Would be interesting.

For the second point, of whether Brady would be a viable QB to continue on with post rebuild. Well Brady just had an MVP caliber year and he's still not retired, but he flirted with it more than ever this off season. So I'm not confidant either way.

The issue is the smart safe money to both answers is no. If you take that as a given, it's better to move on. The problem is that it's Brady and yeah he might just prove everyone wrong and it might be looked at as a mistake.
 

Ring 6

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You have to consider that players would need to be cut and we'd have less cap space if he kept Brady on the roster the last two seasons. It wouldn't be the same team. Even if we got Mac. The problem was the Pats really needed a rebuild at that point and Brady was prohibitive so the only questions left were.

1. Could Brady maintain winning and get us Super Bowl opportunities through it?

2. Would Brady still be a viable QB to move forward with once the rebuild was done?

Both are hard to determine. Brady probably gets the 2020 team in the playoffs and I have to think the 2021 offense is better with him than a rookie. Does that mean he can make some magic happen in the playoffs? Maybe but it's hard to say. But I do think Brady with the Pats team that was pretty good at shutting down the Chiefs that year could take out a crippled Chiefs team if Brady was at the helm. Would that be enough to beat the Saints or Packers who would come out of the NFC that year? Idk. Would be interesting.

For the second point, of whether Brady would be a viable QB to continue on with post rebuild. Well Brady just had an MVP caliber year and he's still not retired, but he flirted with it more than ever this off season. So I'm not confidant either way.

The issue is the smart safe money to both answers is no. If you take that as a given, it's better to move on. The problem is that it's Brady and yeah he might just prove everyone wrong and it might be looked at as a mistake.
The teams wouldn’t have been the same. We would have been way over the cap if he stayed in 20, so the nonQb roster would have been hit harder.
And the team we put on the field in 2021 was built with 62 mill in cap space that would have been 12 if you you subtract 25 mill for Brady in each year.
Playoffs would have been doubtful. Championship no way.
We wouldn’t be rebuilt yet
 

Ring 6

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I'm focused on your last question: "Do you think they would be closer to winning a championship today if he (Brady) has stayed?"

With Covid-19 and the opt outs, and just general grimness of the 2020 season, it's conceivable that the Patriots would have finished with the 15th pick in the draft and Mac Jones, or traded up to get him as an understudy to the 44-year-old Brady. Brady's retirement this off-season could have stuck, and they would have the big cap room this season.

It's a great question to think about in 2022.
I don’t think starting from the assumption we would have been no better with Brady than with Legarm in 2020 could possibly make keeping Brady a good move.
And of course most of last years free agents wouldn’t have existed. So at the best we would be a year behind and at the worst we would still have no qb.
 

sb1

Hall of Fame Poster
Anyone still think the league didn’t find evidence that Ross offered Flores a bribe to tank?

No question they have evidence he did…but they can’t admit it publicly. Can you imagine the look this would be with all the league’s gambling partners if they actually admitted a team was suggesting they will tank?

That’s what this punishment is all about - not tampering where they didn’t get their man.
 
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TheRainMaker

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Anyone still think the league didn’t find evidence that Ross offered Flores a bribe to tank?

No question they have evidence he did…but they can’t admit it publicly. Can you imagine the look this would be with all the league’s gambling partners if they actually admitted a team was attempting to rank?

That’s what this punishment is all about - not tampering where they didn’t get their man.
Yeah, what is up with the NFL “investigating” something, only to punish a team/player/owner/coach on something untreated?

For example, there was a sexual harassment complaint against Dan Synder, only to expose emails from John Gruden which resulted in him losing his job.
 
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Ring 6

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Anyone still think the league didn’t find evidence that Ross offered Flores a bribe to tank?

No question they have evidence he did…but they can’t admit it publicly. Can you imagine the look this would be with all the league’s gambling partners if they actually admitted a team was suggesting they will tank?

That’s what this punishment is all about - not tampering where they didn’t get their man.
Tampering doesn’t have to be successful to be real and illegal. And for Miami it was at least successful to the point of getting Brady out of the division
 

goheels22002

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Tampering doesn’t have to be successful to be real and illegal. And for Miami it was at least successful to the point of getting Brady out of the division
Correct. It's against the rules to tamper with a player under contract to another team. Full stop.

This is bigger than the tampering. Stephen Ross and the Dolphins are paying the price for tanking, tampering and discriminating against Brian Flores.

The NFL truly needs to figure out how to get rid of owners like Stephen Ross and Dan Snyder.
 

RobertWeathers

Author of the Port Huron Statement
Anyone still think the league didn’t find evidence that Ross offered Flores a bribe to tank?

No question they have evidence he did…but they can’t admit it publicly. Can you imagine the look this would be with all the league’s gambling partners if they actually admitted a team was suggesting they will tank?

That’s what this punishment is all about - not tampering where they didn’t get their man.
There is no question the NFL was selective in publicizing its findings and what was viewed as proof of a violation.

What was the evidence of Brady on the boat? Flo's word which assumingely was corroborated by Beal and Ross..or maybe it wasn't and the league just went with Flo's word?

What is the proof of evidence of Ross offering Flo $ to tank games? Flo's word in which Ross said it was offered in jest.

Why does the league believe Ross in one case and not Flo in the other?

Ross should have been banned for a year or forced to sell the team.

Complete BS.
 
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Wozzy

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Yeah, what is up with the NFL “investigating” something, only to punish a team/player/owner/coach on something untreated?

For example, there was a sexual harassment complaint against Dan Synder, only to expose emails from John Gruden which resulted in him losing his job.
The league (owners) protect it's own.

Tampering is one thing... telling a coach to tank is another.

They can't allow even a whiff of impropriety of teams tanking, especially now that gambling is legal.

They shielded Ross from the worst of this... Brady gets nothing because he only has one season left, the Patriots who were the aggrieved party get nothing... and Flores will probably be blackballed.. even if nobody says it aloud.
 

Wozzy

In the Starting Line-Up
The teams wouldn’t have been the same. We would have been way over the cap if he stayed in 20, so the nonQb roster would have been hit harder.
And the team we put on the field in 2021 was built with 62 mill in cap space that would have been 12 if you you subtract 25 mill for Brady in each year.
Playoffs would have been doubtful. Championship no way.
We wouldn’t be rebuilt yet
This ^

You either rebuild and find yourself in this current enviable position, flush with draft picks and cap space... or you sign Brady, borrow more against the cap and try to compete in 2020 with a cap anchor tied to your leg in rough seas... you can't do both.

It was time to move on...
 

Bill Lee

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They shielded Ross from the worst of this...
Yep, not because they love Ross, but because the collateral damage from taking the tanking evidence seriously would damage the league tremendously.

This ^

You either rebuild and find yourself in this current enviable position, flush with draft picks and cap space... or you sign Brady, borrow more against the cap and try to compete in 2020 with a cap anchor tied to your leg in rough seas... you can't do both.

It was time to move on...
Bradyites seem to never spell out how they think the last two years would have gone down had the team done what they wanted and given Brady the contract he wanted. A "down" season of seven wins and a "bounceback" season of ten wins would make fans of many teams happy, they would be the best seasons they've had in at least a decade.
 

Wozzy

In the Starting Line-Up
Bradyites seem to never spell out how they think the last two years would have gone down had the team done what they wanted and given Brady the contract he wanted. A "down" season of seven wins and a "bounceback" season of ten wins would make fans of many teams happy, they would be the best seasons they've had in at least a decade.
When your (Brady zealots) default position is "magical QB's" are responsible for everything, then it doesn't matter who they had around Tom in 2020... he wills his teams to victory no matter what, I mean that's what happened the 7 times he won rings... the 15 other times he didn't?

That was everyone else's fault.

It makes sense in the heads of fanboys...
 
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Rob0729

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Anyone still think the league didn’t find evidence that Ross offered Flores a bribe to tank?

No question they have evidence he did…but they can’t admit it publicly. Can you imagine the look this would be with all the league’s gambling partners if they actually admitted a team was suggesting they will tank?

That’s what this punishment is all about - not tampering where they didn’t get their man.

I believe the punishment they got was probably more about tanking than tampering. And you are right. There is zero chance the league will admit that Ross and the Dolphins purposely tried to tank the season especially now that they have partnered with gambling sites.

But even then, a season long attempt to tamper with a player is over and above what other teams do with tampering.
 

MAC10

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I wouldn't put it past the NFL to get back at Brady this year even if they couldn't punish him directly. I can see refs throwing random flags against the Bucs at key moments...
 

NormZauchin

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There are different forms of tanking.

I'd argue the 2020 NEP executed a form of tanking by not fielding the most talented team they possibly could that year so they could be better for 2021. However what they did do was play each game with the 100% level of effort to win with the roster they had.

Difference here is Ross wanted to financially motivate/incentivize Flo to lose games i.e shave points.
Starting a 2020 version of Cam Newton defines "tanking."
 


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