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OT- Bill's owners DEMAND 100% financing of $1.5B stadium

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Oct 31st

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woolster22

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This is a ridiculous statement and only shows you have only ONE idea about socialism and that is that its "bad" and a word you need to be afraid of, even though you have no idea what it means. the republicans win again.....at least with you.
The GOP and the DNC are both wings of the same bird. Keep lapping up the MSM division just like they want.
 

patfanken

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There's still jumbos on the books from 08 that haven't been dealt with. You couldn't have picked a worse example for a reset. The fed propped it all up and has been doing the same with wall st.

Just as a rising tide raises all ships, an outgoing tide brings them to the rocks. Banks deliberately left jumbos unforeclosed on to keep things sane. IE, Joe Main St got foreclosed on, despite his mortgage getting scooped by the Gov't. San Fran Millionaire's got to freeload while making "business decisions" to throw in the towell on horribly underwater loans.

Great, your friend sold at what seems to be a relative peak to a historically unorecedented confluence of unconstitutional eviction bans on the heels of a decade lull in building while construction co's similarly bore the brunt of banking lunacy in 08. How much has the government pumoed into the economy since 08? Who pays those bills? Who buys alls this overvalued property from boomers as they draw on retirement plans? Which generation has the funds?

The global population is trending towards a decline. The generations following Boomer's aren't reproducing and don't trust the systems being left behind. WFH vs Boomer Execs - talent dictates for now. Big cities lose in this equation.

You don't seem to understand the issue re office. If a company with many offices has one in a state where there is no income tax...this is the obvious office that handles any remote hire. Eliminates a lot of the tax headaches when criminal orgs like NY State try to tax work created 100% outside their jurisdiction through convenience of the employer. Dumb assery like this will drive offices away moving forward.

It's not like wall st couldn't be relocated somewhere less corrupt than Cuomo's purview. NYC is already dead, NY just hasn't figured it out yet.

What happens when student loans are forgiven (they will be)? Do we finally admit higher education is broken? Will higher ed see a transition to more online options?

When the small biz foot traffic doesn't return as it was, do the ridiculous rents stay the same?

NYC is far from bulletproof, but you may need a bulletproof vest to ride the subway these days:
Some of what you've said has value and I found very interesting and provocative. Some of what you wrote was just angry drivel. Sort of "I can program and you can't" kind of a childish rant.

My advice would be to leave the anger out of you posts and stiik to the facts and the evidence to back them up. I know that is sometimes hard and I don't always follow my own advice. :)
 

woolster22

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Some of what you've said has value and I found very interesting and provocative. Some of what you wrote was just angry drivel. Sort of "I can program and you can't" kind of a childish rant.

My advice would be to leave the anger out of you posts and stiik to the facts and the evidence to back them up. I know that is sometimes hard and I don't always follow my own advice. :)
Has nothing to do with me personally being better or nana boo-boo dick waving. More this is what's happening, this is why I took 6months/year off from work w/ 2 kids full time and learned how to do it. Statement of fact, not dick waving. One half of society doesn't understand that when a fact causes an emotional reaction, the fact stating party is not acting out of anger. Further, presuming and assuming the moral high ground as result of said insecurities is nothing but morally bankrupt self protection.

Unfortunately, grandpa went typical lib and chose to assert the moral high ground while remaining wilfully ignorant to fact. Funny how we have tests of knowledge for citizenship, but not to vote. Or licenses to fish, but not raise/have kids. Who's insane? The one questioning these bodies, or all the "educated professionals" that bend over backwards to excuse the obviously inexcusable (targeting 70% of the population with not-vaccinations leveraging new, untested, medical tech, for example)?
 

PatsFanSince74

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This is a long term bond. They state gave $500m each to Citi Field and Yankee Stadium.
Both had complex financing structures: https://www.fieldofschemes.com/documents/Yanks-Mets-costs.pdf; https://ibo.nyc.ny.us/iboreports/doubleplay.html
Bottom line (i.e., all figures net of credits, etc.):
  • Yankees (Steinbrenners) put up about $670MM. City, State and Feds $1.2b, of which $115MM was from the state and $690MM from the city. The rest was private developers' investments.
  • Mets (Wilpons) put up about $135MM. City, State and Feds $614MM, of which $96MM was from the state and $380MM from the city. The rest was private developers' investments.

  • Depends on duration and purpose, but NY State Bond Ratings were dropped from AA to AA- in the last year
  • NY City ratings were dropped from AA- to A+ in the last year
  • Buffalo was downgraded to A in the last year. Dangerously close to BBB and junk range.

To me, this means:
  1. The owners have to have some skin in the game (Wilpons16% of total; Steinbrenners 29%). Hard to see Buffalo ownership getting away with a lower percentage than the Wilpons.
  2. Bond ratings will have to be adjusted for the reality of post COVID tax receipts. Certainly not going higher.
  3. Buffalo is not NYC, where there's a lot more room to fudge tax estimates.
  4. Bye Bye Bills if the owners expect the public to pick up the whole tab post COVID.
 
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Ice_Ice_Brady

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Unfortunately, grandpa went typical lib and chose to assert the moral high ground while remaining wilfully ignorant to fact.
Huh?
Funny how we have tests of knowledge for citizenship, but not to vote.
One of these is a requirement to become a citizen; the other is the right of an eligible citizen.
Or licenses to fish, but not raise/have kids.
One is a public requirement, usually a fee to maintain the place where you fish; the other is a private decision where a required license would violate constitutional rights.
Who's insane?
Hmmmm....
The one questioning these bodies, or all the "educated professionals" that bend over backwards to excuse the obviously inexcusable (targeting 70% of the population with not-vaccinations leveraging new, untested, medical tech, for example)?
My Dunning-Kruger detector is beeping.
 

Ice_Ice_Brady

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Wanting the public to fund a stadium is socialist. Socialism is big govt and big business in partnership.

A billionaire just came into a city, purchased the beloved local football team, and is now holding the team for ransom so a million citizens of lower economic means will foot the expenses...but will share in none of the profits. Hmmm...I don't know, I'm not an economics professor or philosopher, but that seems like something a socialist would cite as a problem with capitalism and not the other way around, no?
 

upstater1

Pro Bowl Player
They will in some form. Those that want to be paid well, at least.

But we'll never need computers in the home, right? We need offices, right?

Simple excel functions are technically code, but don't let that stop reality from slapping you in the face.

I've seen what @Joker @fnordcircle (kontra gets a more obvious comedic value pass)etc are capable of producing, this is far from insane by this board's standards.

If I'm so insane, facts to support your drivel should be easy to find. Yet the one example you offered is anything but. Seems you are the one out of touch with reality, grandpa. Go eat some tapioca and get back to me when your blood sugar is under control.
You expect me to reply with facts to your contention that everyone will code, or else not be paid well, and that universities will die because they don't prepare you for coding well?
 

upstater1

Pro Bowl Player
Huh?

One of these is a requirement to become a citizen; the other is the right of an eligible citizen.

One is a public requirement, usually a fee to maintain the place where you fish; the other is a private decision where a required license would violate constitutional rights.

Hmmmm....

My Dunning-Kruger detector is beeping.
I'm not responding to the crazy anymore. He can have the last word
 

PatsFanSince74

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My job is in venture capital and I just helped place funding for a major hotel resort in the Caribbean. The whole complex (hotels/homes/casino/marina/retail) will be north of $400m. The vast majority of that is debt, not personal money.

This is what many people don’t realize. The Bills owners could do their stadium without putting up a ton of their own money. The vast majority of it would be a loan. It’s basically pure greed on their part. They could do a stadium deal on their own but like others have said, maybe they want out of Buffalo.
If what you mean is they could borrow all or most of the money they throw in the pot, yes you are right. The important thing is that they have skin in the game and are on the hook for it one way or another.
 

woolster22

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Huh?

One of these is a requirement to become a citizen; the other is the right of an eligible citizen.

One is a public requirement, usually a fee to maintain the place where you fish; the other is a private decision where a required license would violate constitutional rights.

Hmmmm....

My Dunning-Kruger detector is beeping.
Why test for the knowledge to become a citizen unless the expectation is the material should be common knowledge within the citizenry?

Ah yes, you're right. The fishing license covers costs incurred by society allowing fishermen to fish, makes sense. Where does society recoup costs incurred by negligient parents? If this is such a basic private decision, why are there screening processes for adoptions? Just let any ******* adopt whoever, right?
 

Joker

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you know what I do?....well, for one thing, I like to go to Patriots games because I'm a lifelong Patriots fan...and when I do I cheer hard for the Pats and I boo vociferously against the competition no matter what team they represent. I give no ground and want no quarter. I feel a sense of camaraderie with my fellow Pats fans and have exactly ZERO interest in their politics, their occupations, their wardrobes or their possessions.
 

patsfan13

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A billionaire just came into a city, purchased the beloved local football team, and is now holding the team for ransom so a million citizens of lower economic means will foot the expenses...but will share in none of the profits. Hmmm...I don't know, I'm not an economics professor or philosopher, but that seems like something a socialist would cite as a problem with capitalism and not the other way around, no?



Try reading: The Vampire Economy by Reinmann, it explains the relationship between big business and bigger government then apply to today's situation.

The Vampire Economy.pdf
 

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