OT: 2021 NFL QB Prospects List or 1st Round Discussion

[Ochmed Jones]

MVP awards are pure idiocy. It's a popularity contest.Lamar is getting exposed this season and will soon be replaced by the Arizona QB as the flavor of the year for you fantasy geekaloids

mvp awards are pure idiocy because football is the ultimate “team” sport.

introducing individual awards in this sport leads to nonsense, divas and other “me first” losers.

in football we win as a team and lose as a team!

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

How are we debating whether Lamar is good or not. The kid won a freaking NFL MVP and still has a ton he can get better. Which is incredible. That means the kid is super talented. To be a MVP and still have an even higher possible ceiling.


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There are the people that have never liked him and always thought he was going to be terrible. Idk if the search button is back to normal but I don't remember many if any who thought he would be any good. Less wanted him here. Again id love to search his name but there was little good things said about him. Very, very few of those people have come around and probably never will.

When it comes to Pats fans, most have been conditioned to a certain type. Jackson doesn't fit that even though he's been a pocket passer since college.

He's always been a bit of a project when it comes to coming full circle as a passer and that's ok. He's young enough and improved in college and the league. So you seen progression, its not just potential.
Let's not forget before his brilliant season last year he stepped in on a losing team and made the playoffs. Came back the following year and set the league on fire. Regression was always coming but it's hit without anyone else stepping up on the team.

He's been bad in some big games, no question about. Makes you wonder what would have been said about Elway, Favre, Young or Manning for example on this board in their early years?

Anyway sure he's been bad in a few big games but the coaching staff and players around him also **** the bed all together. Going back to the Titans/Chargers PO game, NE game this year. Who was the best player in those games? I don't remember anyone stepping up or making a big play. The defense was awful one game. His center has been bad all year to the point that he's apologizing to the entire fan base. How many big drops is Mark Andrews going to have? That's not even bringing up the lack of adjustments by the coaching staff. Lamar has to play better but everyone else has to pick up there **** too.

Also, with all due respect, this forum thinks everyone but Brady is slapdick ****ebum. Manning is a choker. Brees & Rodgers are stat padders. Luck sucks. A good part of Pats fans are spoiled who only have seen Bledsoe, Brady. Only know mostly winning. Which is ok bc it's a fan forum. Staying or being objective kinda goes those fan instincts and again that's ok. Context is usually thrown out the window though.

 

[1960Pats]

How are we debating whether Lamar is good or not. The kid won a freaking NFL MVP and still has a ton he can get better. Which is incredible. That means the kid is super talented. To be a MVP and still have an even higher possible ceiling.


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I get a kick out of the NFL MVP argument, which always comes about running QB's who aren't very good passers, like Jackson and Cam. Both players' ceilings are low enough that they have to duck when they enter a room.

I'm enjoying the fact that the Ratbirds have hitched their wagon to a RB posing as a QB but I'm hoping that the Pats don't make the same mistake after this year.

 

[1960Pats]

MVP awards are pure idiocy. It's a popularity contest.Lamar is getting exposed this season and will soon be replaced by the Arizona QB as the flavor of the year for you fantasy geekaloids

This is how the MVP used to be awarded.

 

[1960Pats]

There are the people that have never liked him and always thought he was going to be terrible. Idk if the search button is back to normal but I don't remember many if any who thought he would be any good. Less wanted him here. Again id love to search his name but there was little good things said about him. Very, very few of those people have come around and probably never will.

When it comes to Pats fans, most have been conditioned to a certain type. Jackson doesn't fit that even though he's been a pocket passer since college.

He's always been a bit of a project when it comes to coming full circle as a passer and that's ok. He's young enough and improved in college and the league. So you seen progression, its not just potential.
Let's not forget before his brilliant season last year he stepped in on a losing team and made the playoffs. Came back the following year and set the league on fire. Regression was always coming but it's hit without anyone else stepping up on the team.

He's been bad in some big games, no question about. Makes you wonder what would have been said about Elway, Favre, Young or Manning for example on this board in their early years?

Anyway sure he's been bad in a few big games but the coaching staff and players around him also **** the bed all together. Going back to the Titans/Chargers PO game, NE game this year. Who was the best player in those games? I don't remember anyone stepping up or making a big play. The defense was awful one game. His center has been bad all year to the point that he's apologizing to the entire fan base. How many big drops is Mark Andrews going to have? That's not even bringing up the lack of adjustments by the coaching staff. Lamar has to play better but everyone else has to pick up there **** too.

Also, with all due respect, this forum thinks everyone but Brady is slapdick ****ebum. Manning is a choker. Brees & Rodgers are stat padders. Luck sucks. A good part of Pats fans are spoiled who only have seen Bledsoe, Brady. Only know mostly winning. Which is ok bc it's a fan forum. Staying or being objective kinda goes those fan instincts and again that's ok. Context is usually thrown out the window though.

I can't speak for all of the Pats fans you're constantly pinning a label on, but I will speak for myself.

I'm opposed to any NYFL QB who's a runner first. Simply because they don't win and never have. You're argument about Jackson is that he was a pocket passer in the NCAA, but I don't see that from him here. In this league a QB has much tighter windows and needs to hit the proper receiver at the right time. He isn't doing that and is even worse at it with the better teams, hence his downright putrid playoff record.

Jackson also seems to be regressing, as opposed to many of the top QBs who have made progress. Even some of the QBs that you want to call running QBs, like Mahomes and Wilson, have had to learn how to pass from the pocket to become winners, which is the bottom line, not fantasy statistics.

With, as you say, all due respect, I've seen QBs play since Bart Starr and Johnny U and would take all of them, as well as those you mentioned in your post, ahead of Jackson, a very talented runner posing as a pro QB.

If he doesn't lead his team to the playoffs this year, which is a real possibility, I wonder what the excuses will be then. I'm sure there'll be plenty.

 

[BelizePats]

This is how the MVP used to be awarded.

View attachment 29271

This is awesome.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I can't speak for all of the Pats fans you're constantly pinning a label on, but I will speak for myself.
I'm opposed to any NYFL QB who's a runner first. Simply because they don't win and never have. You're argument about Jackson is that he was a pocket passer in the NCAA, but I don't see that from him here. In this league a QB has much tighter windows and needs to hit the proper receiver at the right time. He isn't doing that and is even worse at it with the better teams, hence his downright putrid playoff record.

Jackson also seems to be regressing, as opposed to many of the top QBs who have made progress. Even some of the QBs that you want to call running QBs, like Mahomes and Wilson, have had to learn how to pass from the pocket to become winners, which is the bottom line, not fantasy statistics.

With, as you say, all due respect, I've seen QBs play since Bart Starr and Johnny U and would take all of them, as well as those you mentioned in your post, ahead of Jackson, a very talented runner posing as a pro QB.

If he doesn't lead his team to the playoffs this year, which is a real possibility, I wonder what the excuses will be then. I'm sure there'll be plenty.

If you think Jackson is a run first QB, you're showing your ignorance and bias. There is no opinion or debate about him being a pocket passer. No serious football mind believes that. I say that bc credibility matters. People who actual study film and can evaluate QB's agree.

I've shown countless clips, broke it down myself, posted other articles from others a lot smarter than you & me showing the same thing. Jackson ran an EP variation in college for fuk's sake. So I'd challenge anyone here to back here post up with evidence. It shouldn't be hard. There's plenty of tape out there. College & NFL A22. Please go breakdown a few games and show example after example of how he's run first QB. I guarantee this will never happen. Again credibility matters, I've backed up everything about Jackson with legit facts & tape. All I hear is the same nonsense that was said about him pre-draft.

Of course he has work to do as a passer. A lot in fact but an objective mind would recognize he actually performed unbelievable in the most important year for a QB. Year's 2 & 3 are the most important. Most objective people that understand the position wouldn't gloss over the fact that he was the most efficient QB in the league last year. Also and wait for it ... The best pocket passer! Not an opinion 1960, fact. He was outstanding from the pocket last year. So regression was always coming. An objective person putting things into context would also point out he's getting pressured more, OL regressed as well as others. But you would actually have to watch Baltimore to know that.

What part of this post to destroy next???
"Simply because they don't win and never have"
Oh yeah Russell Wilson was absolutely more of a "run first" QB than Jackson when he won a SB. Jackson was obviously farther along as a passer. Not hard to figure out or see. Literally a few years ago. There's more than a few examples of QB'S who weren't advanced as a passer but carried by defense and a strong running game. Even though Jackson isn't a run first QB. A "running" QB is just another extension of that.

Again please back up your opinions with tape & evidence. I have countless times and it gets old beating up on weak arguments with absolutely no substance. Just bias & opinions. Just come correct is all I'm asking. Im sorry but again it's boring.

 

[1960Pats]

If you think Jackson is a run first QB, you're showing your ignorance and bias. There is no opinion or debate about him being a pocket passer. No serious football mind believes that. I say that bc credibility matters. People who actual study film and can evaluate QB's agree.

I've shown countless clips, broke it down myself, posted other articles from others a lot smarter than you & me showing the same thing. Jackson ran an EP variation in college for fuk's sake. So I'd challenge anyone here to back here post up with evidence. It shouldn't be hard. There's plenty of tape out there. College & NFL A22. Please go breakdown a few games and show example after example of how he's run first QB. I guarantee this will never happen. Again credibility matters, I've backed up everything about Jackson with legit facts & tape. All I hear is the same nonsense that was said about him pre-draft.

Of course he has work to do as a passer. A lot in fact but an objective mind would recognize he actually performed unbelievable in the most important year for a QB. Year's 2 & 3 are the most important. Most objective people that understand the position wouldn't gloss over the fact that he was the most efficient QB in the league last year. Also and wait for it ... The best pocket passer! Not an opinion 1960, fact. He was outstanding from the pocket last year. So regression was always coming. An objective person putting things into context would also point out he's getting pressured more, OL regressed as well as others. But you would actually have to watch Baltimore to know that.

What part of this post to destroy next???
"Simply because they don't win and never have"
Oh yeah Russell Wilson was absolutely more of a "run first" QB than Jackson when he won a SB. Jackson was obviously farther along as a passer. Not hard to figure out or see. Literally a few years ago. There's more than a few examples of QB'S who weren't advanced as a passer but carried by defense and a strong running game. Even though Jackson isn't a run first QB. A "running" QB is just another extension of that.

Again please back up your opinions with tape & evidence. I have countless times and it gets old beating up on weak arguments with absolutely no substance. Just bias & opinions. Just come correct is all I'm asking. Im sorry but again it's boring.

If you're bored then take a snooze, because the constant looking down your nose at fans here isn't helping. Anyone with an unbiased eye can see that Lamar Jackson is a running QB. Saying that he's a pocket passer is laughable.

I don't give a rat's arse what Jackosn did in the NCAA. Right now he's in the NYFL, of which I'm a fan, and his biggest gift is that he runs with the ball but looks like crap in the pocket, on the rare occasions that he stays there. That has gotten him two one and done playoffs in two tries and another big loss yesterday to a Ryan Tannehill led team.

Did you watch the KC game yesterday? I did. I don't think Mahomes ever ran over the line of scrimmage. He wins now because he learned to stay in the pocket more, not less.

In other action, Rivers beat Rodgers, Big Ben is 10-0, Brady and Brees have been rolling along. At some point you're going to have to face the facts. This is the NYFL, and the QB's that run haven't done squat in this league and some don't even survive.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

If you're bored then take a snooze, because the constant looking down your nose at fans here isn't helping. Anyone with an unbiased eye can see that Lamar Jackson is a running QB. Saying that he's a pocket passer is laughable.

I don't give a rat's arse what Jackosn did in the NCAA. Right now he's in the NYFL, of which I'm a fan, and his biggest gift is that he runs with the ball but looks like crap in the pocket, on the rare occasions that he stays there. That has gotten him two one and done playoffs in two tries and another big loss yesterday to a Ryan Tannehill led team.

Did you watch the KC game yesterday? I did. I don't think Mahomes ever ran over the line of scrimmage. He wins now because he learned to stay in the pocket more, not less.

In other action, Rivers beat Rodgers, Big Ben is 10-0, Brady and Brees have been rolling along. At some point you're going to have to face the facts. This is the NYFL, and the QB's that run haven't done squat in this league and some don't even survive.

You're embarrassing yourself. You sound casual and very out of touch. Again you can't back up your opinions at all. Show some video, there's years of him on film. That'll never happen though bc you're still sitting at the kids table when it comes to these discussions with cranberry sauce dripping down your chin.



One metric rates Lamar Jackson the best pocket passer in the NFL | RSN

 

[patsinthesnow]

“There are endless options with the rest of the season yet to play out, but as of now Trask doesn't appear likely to fall out of the top 20 picks of the draft.”

Starting to look like there will be 6 first round graded QBs in the draft.

 

[Jim Beankie]

“There are endless options with the rest of the season yet to play out, but as of now Trask doesn't appear likely to fall out of the top 20 picks of the draft.”

Starting to look like there will be 6 first round graded QBs in the draft.

Before reading this, I was independently going to ask about whether or not Trask might be in the running for our top pick, as opposed to someone like Jones (assuming we .500 out the rest of the way). Oh who am I kidding - I think my head would explode if BB actually picked a QB in the 1st round.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

I do not have a first round grade on either trask or Jones.

however, due to bb’s relationship with saban, we should get some inside information on Jones.

 

[BobDigital]

My favorite an may well be Lance. Which is odd for me to say. I hate hate hate QBs that run as much as he does. I find they tend to have short careers and fail at the top level when they can't run to support their pass game. Usually their mechanics aren't smooth and while they may pop off for a bit like RG3 or Lamar they usually come back down to earth one way or another.

Every criticism I usual have about these kind of QBs is true for lance. He pushes the ball with his upper body instead of slinging it with with momentum from his feet and hips like he should. He ran for 1000 yards last season. He dominated a lower level of competition and has limited tape. Someone like me who usually hates these kinds of QBs has every reason to proclaim that Lance will be a bust.

That being said he has great touch on his passes. Something you don't usually see when guys pass the way he does. I'm pretty sure it has to do with how he uses his finger tips as the ball leaves. While he runs a lot he usually doesn't give up after the first read and run unless that is called. Many of his runs were designed plays or RPOs. Another thing is guys who push a ball usually can only do a 'fast ball' and not a 'change up' so to speak. They have a hard time lofting it over the top accurately. Lance can do this pretty damn well even with subpar mechanics.

Just to be clear, I'm not one of those guys whose like 'Well, once he cleans up his mechanics blah blah blah'. As if it is some obvious and easy thing. We hear that said about QBs all the time, but it almost never works out. Personally I think 'bad mechanics' are a habit the forms due to compensating for not being a natural thrower. I don't expect Lance to ever sling it as pretty as Brady did. While it's something you can teach in theory, you need a smoothness and flexibility in your lower body. At this point I believe that either you have it or you don't. You can teach anyone to throw like that, but not everyone can throw at a high level correctly.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

You're embarrassing yourself. You sound casual and very out of touch. Again you can't back up your opinions at all. Show some video, there's years of him on film. That'll never happen though bc you're still sitting at the kids table when it comes to these discussions with cranberry sauce dripping down your chin.



One metric rates Lamar Jackson the best pocket passer in the NFL | RSN

Spot on. And Cam has been a 76% passer with no picks the last 4 weeks. But Lamar and Cam don't fit the mental image or expectation for some

.

 

[1960Pats]

You're embarrassing yourself. You sound casual and very out of touch. Again you can't back up your opinions at all. Show some video, there's years of him on film. That'll never happen though bc you're still sitting at the kids table when it comes to these discussions with cranberry sauce dripping down your chin.



One metric rates Lamar Jackson the best pocket passer in the NFL | RSN

I'm sorry. I thought this was the 2020 season. How about I show the video of the playoff game when his own fans were booing him and pleading for Joe freakin' Flacco to come in? Cherry picking the stats from a year ago, when teams were still adjusting to the Ratbirds RUNNING offense, is frankly dishonest.

Since you didn't produce any of your precious stats from this year they probably don't exist. But let's talk about this year. He lost to every decent team he played but one. He lost to KC, Pitt, Ten and even NE. He did mange to beat what appears to be a decent Indiot team and a Cleveland team that hadn't settled in yet, but all the rest of his other 4 wins have come against a collection of cream puffs.

The fraud is being exposed because he's a one trick pony. Having the board's self-proclaimed expert peg him as the second coming of pocket passers doesn't change the facts. Right now his team would be out of the playoffs, but with most of his remaining games coming against more creampuffs, he'll probably make it and get another chance to extend his one and done playoff record to 3 for 3.

 

[stcjones]

2021 NFL Draft: Time for the Pats to start scouting QBs?

If the Patriots’ 2020 season continues to spiral, could they consider adding a quarterback in next year’s draft? If so, here are a few QB prospects to keep tabs on.

www.nbcsports.com

Apparently the top3 are Lawrence, Fields, and Lance.

The backup QB at Clemson just had a great game while Lawrence was out with covid. So Lawrence was helped by the system, of course.

Parcells used to look for QBs who proved production within major conferences. But then he randomly found Romo. Brady was hidden due to a platoon in Michigan but performed in bowl games. Might there be a sleeper in this draft who can develop with some hard work and a chip on their shoulder ?

I don’t think Lawrence excelled and won championship because he was helped “by the system”. I think he has amazing talent and elite skill set....the only question is can he bring it to the Pro game? I think so. He reminds me of Herbert in some ways except he can take off running some if needs to. Biggest problem for him is where he is plotted to go....the Jete.....The jests have destroyed more good QB than probably anyone except maybe Bengals and Browns....maybe Jags?! Anyways we will have to hope for diamond in the rough....by the time we pick the top 3 will probably be gone!

 

[stcjones]

11TDs to 9 INT last year is concerning. But looks like he's on a better track this year.

Yeah with those stats… We already have that going on right now!

 

[stcjones]

Wilson looks just like Mahomes in terms of how he plays. If we can get the same production, I'd happily take him.

EDIT: The more I watch, he's got a lot of Kyler in his game, too. In terms of size, he's closer to Mahomes but not quite as big. I like what I see.

Unfortunately I think there’s only one Mahomes!

 

[ToonPatriot]

“There are endless options with the rest of the season yet to play out, but as of now Trask doesn't appear likely to fall out of the top 20 picks of the draft.”

Starting to look like there will be 6 first round graded QBs in the draft.

This is more where i'm at. If we are going down the low 1st/high 2nd "pocket passer" route i'd prefer Jones who has a better arm and is slightly more athletic. I'd be interested to hear @BaconGrundleCandy compare the two.

 

[fightingirish595]

You're embarrassing yourself. You sound casual and very out of touch. Again you can't back up your opinions at all. Show some video, there's years of him on film. That'll never happen though bc you're still sitting at the kids table when it comes to these discussions with cranberry sauce dripping down your chin.



One metric rates Lamar Jackson the best pocket passer in the NFL | RSN

While I agree he is a pocket passer. Wasn’t he one of the worst in the league last year throwing outside the numbers? Haven’t those numbers continued to be poor this season.