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Asking for your support
 
THIS IS OUR LIVE GAME DAY THREAD:

This is where we gather to follow things on Game Day. Obviously, emotions tend to be high so if anyone gets a little crazy, the use of the “Mute” button is encouraged on anyone who may be annoying to you to control your experience and to allow the moderators to also enjoy the game.

At the same time, please take a deep breath before over-reacting for the sake of making this a pleasant experience for everyone.

Who do you want to see OUT?

  • Mac Jones OUT! Let us see Zappe!

    Votes: 33 25.8%
  • Matt Patricia OUT! Let someone else call the offensive plays!

    Votes: 102 79.7%
  • Joe Judge OUT! He is ruining our Quarterbacks!

    Votes: 48 37.5%
  • KEEP them ALL - I have complete FAITH in the choices BB has made so far this season!

    Votes: 5 3.9%

  • Total voters
    128
  • Poll closed .

cmasspatsfan

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
For me it’s a lot of ifs. We knew the situation with Wynn last year and we went OG first round for some reason. We now need LT and RT. We also need depth. Tackles are expensive.

We also need to more at WR and TE. I have no faith in BB getting us a legit number one WR.

Then we have Patricia and Judge. Reports coming out now the players are not on board with them, wondering what the hell is going on. We can’t come back next year with these 2 in their current positions.

Then there’s Mac. I think we dealt him a really sh*tty hand this year. A garbage o-line and offensive coach’s out of their depth. Now we don’t know what we got in him.

There’s a lot to fix.
I think Mac can be a good QB in this league and win a lot of games, but we won't know for sure until we have a competent Offensive stafff to coach him and a decent O-line.
 

Kontradiction

#1 Biggest Patriots Fan. A true fan.
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2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
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And who in this group do you think can still be salvaged? Or do we flip everything and basically start over?
Well, OL has been a product of injuries and age. We have a solid starter in Andrews, and Onwenu offers some positional flexibility. Brown’s best days are behind him and Wynn is an injury machine. That group needs to be almost entirely revamped.

The WRs are fine if you have a playmaker in the vein of Diggs, Hill, Jefferson, Chase, etc as the clear cut #1. You can get away with this group with guys like Brady, Rodgers, Mahomes, and Allen. You can’t get away with it with Mac. The TEs have been a total waste of money. $24M in cap space for two total touchdowns is an abomination. Out of the two, Henry has been better. We can put to bed the myth that we just don’t know how to use Jonnu because he’s been almost totally useless under two different OCs, one of whom is the best in the business. The WRs seem like the most salvageable unit if you want to shed a guy like Agholor or Bourne and bring in a true #1.

I’ve never been a fan of Patricia on either side of the ball, and I would not have brought him back in the first place. His fat ass can pack his s.hit, click his cankles together three times, and f.uck off back to the all-you-can-eat buffet.

Mac? Too early to tell. I’ve given him a fair shake. I haven’t even really been critical of him until after the Vikings game. I still think the 2022 Pats are his team, and that Zappe’s time to earn the job is in TC next season. But I see some troubling signs that have put doubt into me about whether or not he’s the guy. He runs way too hot and seems to have trouble forgetting the previous play. He doesn’t seem to be THE GUY to make the tough play when we need it (sliding before the first down marker in key situations two weeks in a row instead of taking the hit and fighting for it). His field vision has been spotty all season, and that’s not something that’s ideal for a guy who is already working with limited physical traits. He can read a defense very well. His pre-snap reads are great and he can diagnose disguises. But I don’t think he has “it.” The mental issues may be a side effect of immaturity, but the physical softness isn’t something many skittish QBs overcome. Hard to say if he can be salvaged or not right now.

Just my honest take.
 

gtfanboy

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
I think Mac can be a good QB in this league and win a lot of games, but we won't know for sure until we have a competent Offensive stafff to coach him and a decent O-line.

Give him both of those plus a bona fide WR and if he still f*cks up, I have no issue in moving on from Mac to Zappe or drafting someone and trying again.

Plus, I really think its time to let Bill move on and bring in Sean Payton or someone with a offensive mindset is the way forward. Bill believes in his own genius a bit too much and the team is stagnant or worse since Brady left.
 

captain stone

Hall of Fame Poster
He was getting rid of talented players to establish a new culture, a new style of play, new defense, etc. in favor of older guys who were not as good. Again, I don't see anything contradictory here. You understood what I was saying. I'm talking about the whole process of what he did in those years.

If he doesn't tear it down and go 5-11, then he doesn't build it the way he wanted to, and it took him 3 years to build it.

Then why didn't he tear it down during the 2020 season?

Oh yeah, now I remember why: Papa Bear & Shula.
 
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captain stone

Hall of Fame Poster
It kinda isn’t. Here was the full view of the play. The play was supposed to go to Parker (it is clear he first looks to Parker) who was the sole receiver on the right side of the line. Parker was covered. By the time he turned to the left side of the field and Henry looked back for the ball, the defender was in his face. To say that Jones could have gotten it to Henry is a lie. This was not Mac Jones’ fault.



I believe that NewTonyEason was looking for Stevenson first, as usual, and Parker second.
 
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TheRainMaker

Matt Patricia is the greatest and you're not
2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
This may shock some but here's the where the Pats rank for money allocated to positions:

QB: 2nd least.
RB: 5th least.
WR: 2nd most money tied up. There's absolutely no way you could pay Meyers to be your highest paid WR at this point. You have to let him walk.
TE: 1st most. We all know how bad this is.
OL: 14th least.
DL: 13th least.
LB: 6th most (Judon takes up around 50% of total money).
DB: 6th most. Now this is bizarre. Where is the money going to?
ST: 10th least.
 
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RIpats88

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
This may shock some but here's the where the Pats rank for money allocated to positions:

WR: 2nd most money tied up. There's absolutely no way you could pay Meyers to be your highest paid WR at this point. You have to let him walk.
TE: 1st
LB: 6th (Judon takes up around 50% of total money)
DB: 6th. Now this is bizarre. Where is the money going to?

I'd rather pats pay $25million to one stud receiver than whatever they are paying for a bunch of "mediocre" guys.

In today's NFL talented receiver might just be most important to winning. Eagles and Miami were average teams last year and their QBs looked mid. Now they go get top receivers and their teams are Superbowl contenders and their QBs look all of a sudden elite.
 

patsfanfromoversea

In the Starting Line-Up
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This may shock some but here's the where the Pats rank for money allocated to positions:

QB: 2nd least.
RB: 5th least.

WR: 2nd most money tied up. There's absolutely no way you could pay Meyers to be your highest paid WR at this point. You have to let him walk.
TE: 1st most. We all know how bad this is.
WR - league average at best, no one who can constantly beat press man and get separation
TE - average at best, no blocker,
--> wrong groceries overpaid
OL: 14th least.
DL: 13th least.
LB: 6th most (Judon takes up around 50% of total money).
DB: 6th most. Now this is bizarre. Where is the money going to?
ST: 10th least.
 

ivanvamp

In the Starting Line-Up
Rebuilds in the NFL in 2022 take 2-3 years, not 5. I see regression and not progression this year. Since Bill runs the organization as GM and HC it's all on his shoulders. I wouldn't give a year 5.

The Eagles took 5 years to rebuild from their SB winning 2017 team to their current NFC best 2022 team. Five years, not 2-3.

Denver has been rebuilding since 2015, with only one winning season in there (2016).

Seattle was last good in 2020. Last year they went 7-10. This year, in year 2 of the rebuild, they're 6-5, with Geno Smith as their QB, who is not the long-term answer.

The Dolphins won 10 games in 2016, then have been building ever since, with only one good year since then (10-6 in 2020). They are finally really good, but it took them a long time to get there, not 2-3 years.

The Bengals won 12 games in 2015 and had their first good season with Burrow/Chase/Higgins/Mixon in 2021, a stretch of 6 seasons.

The Panthers have been rebuilding since 2017, when they won 11 games. No more than 7 wins in any season since.

The Falcons were last good in 2017 as well, when they won 10 games. Since then, they haven't won more than 7 in any year.

The Steelers won 12 games two seasons ago in 2020, but since then they won 9 and now are 4-7. Their rebuild looks like it will take more than 2-3 years since they're already in year 2 and they suck.

I could go on but you get the point. The idea that rebuilds back to contender status only take 2-3 years in this day and age is absurd and demonstrably false.
 

h0c2000

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
The Eagles took 5 years to rebuild from their SB winning 2017 team to their current NFC best 2022 team. Five years, not 2-3.

Denver has been rebuilding since 2015, with only one winning season in there (2016).

Seattle was last good in 2020. Last year they went 7-10. This year, in year 2 of the rebuild, they're 6-5, with Geno Smith as their QB, who is not the long-term answer.

The Dolphins won 10 games in 2016, then have been building ever since, with only one good year since then (10-6 in 2020). They are finally really good, but it took them a long time to get there, not 2-3 years.

The Bengals won 12 games in 2015 and had their first good season with Burrow/Chase/Higgins/Mixon in 2021, a stretch of 6 seasons.

The Panthers have been rebuilding since 2017, when they won 11 games. No more than 7 wins in any season since.

The Falcons were last good in 2017 as well, when they won 10 games. Since then, they haven't won more than 7 in any year.

The Steelers won 12 games two seasons ago in 2020, but since then they won 9 and now are 4-7. Their rebuild looks like it will take more than 2-3 years since they're already in year 2 and they suck.

I could go on but you get the point. The idea that rebuilds back to contender status only take 2-3 years in this day and age is absurd and demonstrably false.

I'll just do the AFC east for brevity. FYI, all 3 are contenders this year.

Rebuild StartRecord
bills20186-10
NYJ20184-12
Dolphins20195-11
 

h0c2000

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
That 5-11 year, though, helps skew the numbers for all the anti-Belichick people. ;)

Belichick is going to have to just admit a bad decision and move on. Patricia is a great numbers guy and has a brain for contracts, etc, so I have zero issue with him being in the front office and/or being an assistant. Just not the driving force behind what's going on game-to-game or week-to-week. I still think they made a mistake with how they handled Nick Caley, but that's another story. :rolleyes:

So if people aren't able to exclude the pre-Brady years from their argument, does that mean Bill has lost the only playoff game he's reached?
 

Ras-IR Dowling

2022 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
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I think Mac can be a good QB in this league and win a lot of games, but we won't know for sure until we have a competent Offensive stafff to coach him and a decent O-line.
I’m not sold on Mac. I think there’s too many weaknesses in his game to ever be that qb that takes us to where we want to go.

That being said, we definitely need to replace this offensive staff and offensive line first. These 2 areas are bigger issues.
 

Ras-IR Dowling

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The Eagles took 5 years to rebuild from their SB winning 2017 team to their current NFC best 2022 team. Five years, not 2-3.

Denver has been rebuilding since 2015, with only one winning season in there (2016).

Seattle was last good in 2020. Last year they went 7-10. This year, in year 2 of the rebuild, they're 6-5, with Geno Smith as their QB, who is not the long-term answer.

The Dolphins won 10 games in 2016, then have been building ever since, with only one good year since then (10-6 in 2020). They are finally really good, but it took them a long time to get there, not 2-3 years.

The Bengals won 12 games in 2015 and had their first good season with Burrow/Chase/Higgins/Mixon in 2021, a stretch of 6 seasons.

The Panthers have been rebuilding since 2017, when they won 11 games. No more than 7 wins in any season since.

The Falcons were last good in 2017 as well, when they won 10 games. Since then, they haven't won more than 7 in any year.

The Steelers won 12 games two seasons ago in 2020, but since then they won 9 and now are 4-7. Their rebuild looks like it will take more than 2-3 years since they're already in year 2 and they suck.

I could go on but you get the point. The idea that rebuilds back to contender status only take 2-3 years in this day and age is absurd and demonstrably false.
Rebuilds take time and I think most of the board here understands.

The problem and what people can’t get their heads around was after an improvement in 2021 from the Cam Newton year Bill completely f’d the offseason once we lost Josh to LV. He basically quit on his rebuild and now we are looking at starting fresh after this season because I’m assuming this offensive staff is gone at the minimum.
 

Ian

Administrator
Staff member
ADMINISTRATOR
So if people aren't able to exclude the pre-Brady years from their argument, does that mean Bill has lost the only playoff game he's reached?
So far, I guess. But the fact they're penalizing Bill for finding Brady and playing a role in developing him and then capitalizing off of that development is still something I don't understand. They act like he played no role in Brady ultimately becoming who he turned out to be, and that's absolutely more than a little unfair.
 

captain stone

Hall of Fame Poster
I don't think he could catch a pass once he stepped oob in the EZ so he took himself out of the play. HH had a TD called back for the same reason. Probably coached to do exactly that. I suppose he could've tried to break up the almost INT but not sure if that would've been a penalty.

A penalty there still beats an interception there.
 

captain stone

Hall of Fame Poster
I’m surprised nobody is talking about when Mack Wilson went Kiwanuka on Josh Allen before the TD pass. As I saw Wilson closing in, I saw visions of posters itching to get on here and say “I told you so” about Wilson and McMillian until we saw that horrible attempt of a tackle. Then Jon Jones giving up in the end zone. It reminded me of 2002 with Steve Martin jogging around not giving a fuk.

Yep.

Small wonder then that the Brownies were willing to take only Wino for him.
 
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