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NEW ARTICLE: Patriots TE Analysis, Morse’s Morsels

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Dec 12th
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Wozzy

In the Starting Line-Up
Asiasi and Keene are complete unknowns at this point... it's hard to grade that.
 

Wozzy

In the Starting Line-Up
That pretty much says it all, doesn't it? Year 3 ... They should be known factors by now
Was Edelman a known factor by year 3? Was Darren Waller, arguably the best receiving TE in the league right now?

No, is the answer on both.

TE is notoriously difficult for rookies to make the leap from college, they have to be part WR/part offensive lineman. A year after getting drafted the Patriots acquired Hunter Henry and Jonnu which slid the kids down the depth chart. That was hardly their fault. They need to stay healthy and get a legitimate shot at playing in a good offense before we write them off... not some snaps with Cam in 2020, arguably the worst starting QB in the league that season.
 
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Pape

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
Was Edelman a known factor by year 3? Was Darren Waller, arguably the best receiving TE in the league right now?

No, is the answer on both.

TE is notoriously difficult for rookies to make the leap from college, they have to be part WR/part offensive lineman. A year after getting drafted the Patriots acquired Hunter Henry and Jonnu which slid the kids down the depth chart. That was hardly their fault. They need to stay healthy and get a legitimate shot at playing in a good offense before we write them off... not some snaps with Cam in 2020, arguably the worst starting QB in the league that season.
Did Julian Edelman contribute in his first three seasons? Yes he did. Was Julian playing behind the best slot receiver in the history of the NFL? Yes he was.

Asiasi and Keene, especially Keene have been mia for two years ... Keene was taking reps with the new players in otas this year... Wtf????

And I don't want to hear about te being a difficult position to learn... Its football, a game these guys have been playing their whole life... The should have cracked the code by now...

Saying stuff like that is like arguing we should keep harry on the roster just in case...
 

BaconGrundleCandy

Not the kind of guy to say I told you so ...
PatsFans.com Supporter
Also Waller was dealing a bunch of substance issues his first few years in the league. Unless Keene or Asiasi have a major habit we don't know about the excuses have ran out.
 

One-If-By-Sea

In the Starting Line-Up
Also Waller was dealing a bunch of substance issues his first few years in the league. Unless Keene or Asiasi have a major habit we don't know about the excuses have ran out.

After this year the excuses will have run out. When Keene was drafted BB said it would be Y3 before he started contributing. Here is Y3, let's see what happens. There is no FB so I think we will see some of Keene blocking, running, and catching. Unlikely Smith and Henry play 17 games again, so Asiasi will have to step in. It will be good to see if they step up or not.
 

BaconGrundleCandy

Not the kind of guy to say I told you so ...
PatsFans.com Supporter
After this year the excuses will have run out. When Keene was drafted BB said it would be Y3 before he started contributing. Here is Y3, let's see what happens. There is no FB so I think we will see some of Keene blocking, running, and catching. Unlikely Smith and Henry play 17 games again, so Asiasi will have to step in. It will be good to see if they step up or not.
I & I'm sure other always envisioned Keene as hybrid FB/TE so we can only hope. I'm a fan of converting those guys bc they can catch but we'll see how it plays out.

Also good point about Henry & Smith. They were waaaay too healthy last year and you know how that goes.
 

LFGMac10

In the Starting Line-Up
2021 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
Did Julian Edelman contribute in his first three seasons? Yes he did. Was Julian playing behind the best slot receiver in the history of the NFL? Yes he was.

Asiasi and Keene, especially Keene have been mia for two years ... Keene was taking reps with the new players in otas this year... Wtf????

And I don't want to hear about te being a difficult position to learn... Its football, a game these guys have been playing their whole life... The should have cracked the code by now...

Saying stuff like that is like arguing we should keep harry on the roster just in case...
Don't even say that about he who shall no be named
 

One-If-By-Sea

In the Starting Line-Up
I & I'm sure other always envisioned Keene as hybrid FB/TE so we can only hope. I'm a fan of converting those guys bc they can catch but we'll see how it plays out.

Also good point about Henry & Smith. They were waaaay too healthy last year and you know how that goes.

Especially with Henry, he is never healthy for a whole year, except is 2021. It is good that Asiasi had an extra year, he looked like he needed it. :notsaying: Keene might surprise - he is incredibly jacked if you have seen any pics.
 

Wozzy

In the Starting Line-Up
Did Julian Edelman contribute in his first three seasons? Yes he did. Was Julian playing behind the best slot receiver in the history of the NFL? Yes he was.

Asiasi and Keene, especially Keene have been mia for two years ... Keene was taking reps with the new players in otas this year... Wtf????

And I don't want to hear about te being a difficult position to learn... Its football, a game these guys have been playing their whole life... The should have cracked the code by now...

Saying stuff like that is like arguing we should keep harry on the roster just in case...
Edelman was called a bust on Patriot forums by the negative types after year three, he was called injury prone and his "talent" and hands were questionable. He became one of the greatest crunch time players in franchise history.

Keene was injured all last or had a case of Foxboro flu, hardly an opportunity to showcase his skills. The only time we saw either of these guys was with Cam in 2020. According to a stat posted that season, Cam went to about midseason and hadn't thrown a single pass to his right, he perpetually missed TE's in the flat... didn't see them at all. He was the worst starting QB in the NFL.

Harry has been given every opportunity to play, wedged onto the roster, put on the field, thrown targets, he was also a first round pick and expected to contribute sooner... he is soft, he sucks, we know that definitely. Apples/oranges...

There are a million examples of rookies taking time to develop and becoming serviceable players by the end of their rookie deal. Not all rookies develop the same. Mike Vrabel didn't start a single game until BB traded for him in year five. No production is not the same as bad production and both of these 2020 rookies have great TE's in front of them on the depth chart. Something will have to happen in order for us to see them play, hopefully they rise to the occasion when that happens.
 

Pape

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
Edelman was called a bust on Patriot forums by the negative types after year three, he was called injury prone and his "talent" and hands were questionable. He became one of the greatest crunch time players in franchise history.

Keene was injured all last or had a case of Foxboro flu, hardly an opportunity to showcase his skills. The only time we saw either of these guys was with Cam in 2020. According to a stat posted that season, Cam went to about midseason and hadn't thrown a single pass to his right, he perpetually missed TE's in the flat... didn't see them at all. He was the worst starting QB in the NFL.

Harry has been given every opportunity to play, wedged onto the roster, put on the field, thrown targets, he was also a first round pick and expected to contribute sooner... he is soft, he sucks, we know that definitely. Apples/oranges...

There are a million examples of rookies taking time to develop and becoming serviceable players by the end of their rookie deal. Not all rookies develop the same. Mike Vrabel didn't start a single game until BB traded for him in year five. No production is not the same as bad production and both of these 2020 rookies have great TE's in front of them on the depth chart. Something will have to happen in order for us to see them play, hopefully they rise to the occasion when that happens.
You do realize that they have already been replaced, yes?

When given opportunities they haven't done anything...

Would not surprise me in the least if one or both were cut at the end of camp... Practice squad maybe... But I don't think we are carrying four right ends this year...
 

Wozzy

In the Starting Line-Up
You do realize that they have already been replaced, yes?

When given opportunities they haven't done anything...

Would not surprise me in the least if one or both were cut at the end of camp... Practice squad maybe... But I don't think we are carrying four right ends this year...
They're still on the team until they aren't.

In 2020 the Patriot's were clearing cap off their books, taking a reset year. In 2021 they had the most cap space in the league by design so they signed the best players available. Regardless of whether these rookie TE's showed promise or not they had to address the TE position. They roster 3 TE's every year, they had two potential players with the kids and needed depth and experience immediately.

They (on average) usually carry 3 TE's and a FB... if they no longer roster a FB then they will very likely carry 4 TE's assuming all four look good in camp and preseason. It's what they did prior to signing James Develin and bringing a FB back. Henry has an injury history and TE's get hurt in general.
 
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Pape

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
They're still on the team until they aren't.

In 2020 the Patriot's were clearing cap off their books, taking a reset year. In 2021 they had the most cap space in the league by design so they signed the best players available. Regardless of whether these rookie TE's showed promise or not they had to address the TE position. They roster 3 TE's every year, they had two potential players with the kids and needed depth and experience immediately.

They (on average) usually carry 3 TE's and a FB... if they no longer roster a FB then they will very likely carry 4 TE's assuming all four look good in camp and preseason. It's what they did prior to signing James Develin and bringing a FB back. Henry has an injury history and TE's get hurt in general.
They spent the money on tight ends because the then rookies were terrible. If they showed anything you could see BB bringing in maybe 1 guy.

As for fb ... Maybe one of the rbs like Harris takes that role on ... Makes more sense to me ...
 

Wozzy

In the Starting Line-Up
They spent the money on tight ends because the then rookies were terrible. If they showed anything you could see BB bringing in maybe 1 guy.

As for fb ... Maybe one of the rbs like Harris takes that role on ... Makes more sense to me ...
If they were “terrible” they would already be gone. BB realized draft prospects often need development, they don’t all exit college ready to play pro ball… especially mid to late round picks.

Whenever I hear comments like this I recall the negative comments about Edelman and others, like “Donta Hightower is too slow to play LB” in his sophomore year when all the other LB’ers got hurt and he was asked to play way beyond his skill set. These guys became some of the best players in franchise history.

Jonnu will be the default FB/Move TE. Beyond that they’ll carry four overall if the two young players look great in preseason. TE’s are too valuable to let go or risk on the PS. Other teams will take notice if they play well.
 
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Pape

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
If they were “terrible” they would already be gone. BB realized draft prospects often need development, they don’t all exit college ready to play pro ball… especially mid to late round picks.

Do you think that those guys are "good" "average" "below average" or terrible? If they were cut tomorrow, would the team, in its current iteration, miss them and the skills, if any, they bring to the table?

Harry has been terrible, yet hes found a way to stick for the last three years... so that refutes your argument about keeping not so good players around...

And whenever I read comments standing 100% behind players who haven't done a damn thing in multiple seasons, I'm reminded of 2005 and Monty Beisel ... "If he wasnt good, BB wouldn't play him"... well he wasn't good, and he played him...
 
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Wozzy

In the Starting Line-Up
Do you think that those guys are "good" "average" "below average" or terrible? If they were cut tomorrow, would the team, in its current iteration, miss them and the skills, if any, they bring to the table?
That’s my point… nobody but the coaches in that program know. If Hunter or Jonnu get hurt having quality depth behind them is crucial.
Harry has been terrible, yet hes found a way to stick for the last three years... so that refutes your argument about keeping not so good players around...
He was injured in 2019, had Cam in 2020, his last chance was 2021. Now the team knows exactly who he is. It’s easy to say player x can do this, this and this. Very often until you get a young unknown into your building you don’t really know what they can do.
And whenever I read comments standing 100% behind players who haven't done a damn thing in multiple seasons, I'm reminded of 2005 and Monty Beisel ... "If he wasnt good, BB wouldn't play him"... well he wasn't good, and he played him...
Monty Beisel after four years in KC came to NE for the cost of a cup of coffee. He started 6 games in 2005 because Bruschi got hurt… and that’s the only reason. Then he was let go. BB won’t hang onto bad players or players who don’t contribute in one of three phases… but it’s funny you’ve been carrying this hatred for Beisel for almost two decades.
 

Pape

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
That’s my point… nobody but the coaches in that program know. If Hunter or Jonnu get hurt having quality depth behind them is crucial.

He was injured in 2019, had Cam in 2020, his last chance was 2021. Now the team knows exactly who he is. It’s easy to say player x can do this, this and this. Very often until you get a young unknown into your building you don’t really know what they can do.

Monty Beisel after four years in KC came to NE for the cost of a cup of coffee. He started 6 games in 2005 because Bruschi got hurt… and that’s the only reason. Then he was let go. BB won’t hang onto bad players or players who don’t contribute in one of three phases… but it’s funny you’ve been carrying this hatred for Beisel for almost two decades.
Wozzy, come on man, dont duck the question... Good, Average, Below Average, Terrible... its not the theory of relativity we are trying to parse here...

The coaches know... We can also figure it out... Asiasi was inactive for 16 of the 17 games last season... Dalton Keene was literally taking OTA snaps with the new players this year... in his third season here... thats vomit inducing... At some point they should have shown at least a little bit of something to justify their continued roster spot... I'd settle for good Special Teams play at this point...

and please spare me... i don't need any rationalizations based on the injury history of N'Keal Harry... Hes been nothing short of a disappointment since he got here. I know that. You know that. Everyone knows that. The coaches knew exactly who he was since day 1. Tom Curran pickup up on it from the beginning. "Water Cooler" guy...

Beisel was brought in as a free agent, played the entire season, minus 1 game. then he was cut. But he still played. And it drove me freaking nuts.
 

Zappe Hour

Pro Bowl Player
Wozzy, come on man, dont duck the question... Good, Average, Below Average, Terrible... its not the theory of relativity we are trying to parse here...

The coaches know... We can also figure it out... Asiasi was inactive for 16 of the 17 games last season... Dalton Keene was literally taking OTA snaps with the new players this year... in his third season here... thats vomit inducing... At some point they should have shown at least a little bit of something to justify their continued roster spot... I'd settle for good Special Teams play at this point...

and please spare me... i don't need any rationalizations based on the injury history of N'Keal Harry... Hes been nothing short of a disappointment since he got here. I know that. You know that. Everyone knows that. The coaches knew exactly who he was since day 1. Tom Curran pickup up on it from the beginning. "Water Cooler" guy...

Beisel was brought in as a free agent, played the entire season, minus 1 game. then he was cut. But he still played. And it drove me freaking nuts.
I remember the Money Beisel threads peoples were hype over him coming to the Pats. People put up his nose and said that’s a hard nosed linebacker look at his broken nose he’s going to stop the run yada yada.
Then I had to watch game after game as he got abused in the run game just absolutely dominated by blockers and I recall running backs running over and by him.
I thought he had a good reputation coming from KC.
I wonder if problems understanding the defense made him play more unsure and timid.
I believe after he left here he played much better i recall him going back to KC I believe.
 


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