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Movie: Joker

Discussion in 'The PatsFans.com Pub' started by slash83, Sep 12, 2019.

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  1. supafly

    supafly Suddenly sad and Brady-less PatsFans.com Supporter Weekly Picks Winner

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    Honestly, I tried to ignore some of the noise, so to speak, so I could just focus on what the movie was without worrying about my opinion being swayed by some internet garbage.

    However, if we’re discussing that angle, I do think that you’re spot on with your analysis. In my opinion, almost everything about that movie was good, and it certainly exceeded my expectations. Like someone else stated, thus far, in the 10th month of the year, it should be considered a candidate for movie of the year. It may not be due to Hollywood politics and the high possibility of a future holiday release knocking it out of the category, but I don’t think anyone can dispute the notion of it being one of the more entertaining flicks that we’ve seen in a little while.

    I don’t remember if it was you or Kontra, but I do see some similarities with “The Wrestler,” which was superb. I didn’t see any reason to link it to involuntary celibates, although I probably don’t have as good of a grasp on that subject matter as some others might. There was actually a point about a year ago where I had to look the term up, as that’s how out of the loop I was on the subject matter.
     
  2. supafly

    supafly Suddenly sad and Brady-less PatsFans.com Supporter Weekly Picks Winner

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    I know that many are throwing around a lot of comparisons, but most artists are inspired by other film, music, literature, etc. That aspect doesn’t take anything away for me, personally. After all, the framework for the character development had been around for years and years.

    You can only have so much “originality” to the story of how the Joker becomes the Joker. In other words, I think we all know that it didn’t happen happily or peacefully. Instead of mailing it in like some of the past depictions of the character did, we see a brilliant look at the creation of the circumstances that led to where we all knew that it would end up. I think there’s something to be said for how they got us there.
     
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  3. betterthanthealternative

    betterthanthealternative PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Saw it a couple of days ago. Still running through my head. Very powerful movie, great acting job. A bit haunting.

    The movie isn't part of the Batman saga series; it just uses that platform to make its statement. Batman fans will be disappointed in that regard.

    In fact, the character is so limited by his mental health issues that he doesn't project as capable of a long career as a major criminal with a criminal enterprise around him, tormenting Batman and Gotham for decades. He just doesn't have the clever evil genius quality about him. And he's much more appealing; you leave that movie with some empathy for him.

    The movie is more of a sociological statement, about how society is structured with a few very powerful people at the top, and the majority living in their wake. The mental health aspect (his, and his Mom's) is simply Joker's entrance fee to that class out outcasts. If the Army wants to worry about the movie, that's the angle; it magnifies the income gap distribution and implies that the only way out of the bottom is violent uprising.
     
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  4. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Florida Man PatsFans.com Supporter

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    There is none. That was just fake news leading to the build-up of this. He’s no incel. He’s a guy that was already a lunatic that slowly became more and more detached from reality after coming off of his meds. I loved (and I don’t think this is a spoiler) how his delusions got worse and worse the longer he was off his medication.
     
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  5. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Florida Man PatsFans.com Supporter

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    ****QUASI SPOILER****







    I was actually surprised that they even showed the scene where Thomas and Martha Wayne were murdered in front of young Bruce. I actually thought it was going to be Arthur who did it at first when he confronted Thomas in the bathroom at the Opera. But then I remembered that Bruce had to actually be there for that.
     
  6. Boomer B

    Boomer B Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    I love how they tied both those characters together. Both the Joker and the Batman were born that same night.
     
  7. betterthanthealternative

    betterthanthealternative PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Me, too. It was the one (thin) connection back to the original story that has a tinge of sequel possibility. But I just don't know where you go from here with that character, played that way. And could Phoenix handle going into that role again? Seems like it would be tough to recover from.
     
  8. YOUGOTMOSSED

    YOUGOTMOSSED In the Starting Line-Up

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    Yeah, they made it sound like this was going to be a dark version of the "40 year Old Virgin" or something.

    ***spoilers****
    Fleck was a lonely person with no support systems or real family whatsoever. His "mother" was an abuser and merely exploiting him. The talk show host/media became a surrogate father to him and he desperately sought their approval. Lashing back with violence against the people who wrong him plus his deranged actions being encouraged by the media sent him off the deep end to become "Joker."
     
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  9. fnordcircle

    fnordcircle The poster who James White said inspires him. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I connected it to The Wrestler because both movies took tremendous pains to show us a main character who was incredibly vulnerable.

    Oh and RE: comparing it to Falling Down or whatever, I don't think that detracts from the movie at all if it has strong comparisons. But in terms of of overall story arc it felt at times like a beat for beat new take on the same story as Falling Down (and whatever movie Falling Down probably borrowed from). But that's the storyboard stuff. It's everything else about a movie that really determines if it works for me or not.
     
  10. fnordcircle

    fnordcircle The poster who James White said inspires him. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The more I think about the movie the more I think it really does a good job of asking us a simple question: what do we want to do about the problems of the mentally ill. Some people are born with an illness and I think some people develop one due to extreme isolation.

    To me it only really comes down to 2 options: Take care of them or kill them. I don't want to put them down like dogs so I'm in the former camp but ultimately I don't see a 3rd option that isn't just basically half-assing the first. I know a lot of people don't like the idea of public sector answers to questions but I don't see how a private sector answer could happen when we're talking about 'customers' who are often too mentally ill to function in our society.

    And one of the worst parts is that caring for the mentally ill is brutal. I never have but my ex did for a bit and it like, ground her down emotionally.

    But the way we're handling things now? Mass shootings are going to continue. The homeless problem is going to continue.
     
  11. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Florida Man PatsFans.com Supporter

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    What do I want to do? Take whatever tax money you can get from me and let’s treat them. Lock them up, but make it pleasant, have them talk to a full-time psychiatrist, with access to whatever drug they need. Take care of them. They don’t choose to be like that. Their most vital organ has betrayed them, and badly. Take care of them or kill them. Those are the only two choices. I choose the former.
     
  12. venecol

    venecol The FRG has a little **** PatsFans.com Supporter

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    After reading this thread, I'll stick with Nicholson's Joker, or even better Ledger. I'll also wait to see it on Netflix, no way my wife (medical social worker) agrees to watch this depressing character development when she deals with whack jobs every day, lol.
     
  13. TommyBrady12

    TommyBrady12 Pro Bowl Player

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    Solid movie. A bit slow in the beginning as Arthur Fleck develops into the Joker. But it got much better at the end.
     
  14. fnordcircle

    fnordcircle The poster who James White said inspires him. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I thought the pace was perfect. But I'm a big fan of slow burns and there wasn't a scene I thought we could have done without.

    Major plot spoilers:

    Trying to wrap my head around how much was delusion and how much was real. I need to rewatch it a few times to see if I can figure out if there are any hints about when he's in fantasy and when he's in the real world. It's so intentionally ambiguous about that though I don't expect I'll find anything. You can make a compelling case the entire movie was just his fantasies.

    You can decide the only real parts were when he gets fired and when he steps into the fridge the rest is just a guy's revenge on society fantasy after getting ****canned.

    I have changed my tune on Thomas Wayne being his father though because as someone else had pointed - why the hell would Wayne know about the adoption? That's a bizarre thing to know about a 'delusional' employee from whom you were trying to distance yourself. That plus the TW smile picture are pretty compelling.
     
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  15. venecol

    venecol The FRG has a little **** PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Why does every thread have to devolve into talking about AB?
     
  16. fnordcircle

    fnordcircle The poster who James White said inspires him. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Question about a scene with a neighbor:

    Do you think he killed her?

    I wish I had some sense of how much time passed between her finding him in her apartment and when the guys beat him up because after he leaves her apartment he's on the couch wearing just underwear and has a lot of bruises on his body.

    The music in that scene as he's walking down the hall upon leaving certainly make me think he killed her or her and her kid.
     
  17. chris_in_sunnyvale

    chris_in_sunnyvale In the Starting Line-Up Weekly Picks Winner

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    No. I think at that point in the movie, he was only killing people who wronged him.

    Regards,
    Chris
     
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  18. Wordsmyth

    Wordsmyth PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The plan is to catch it Tuesday. Was going to see it last Tuesday, but the sinus infection had other ideas.
     
  19. fnordcircle

    fnordcircle The poster who James White said inspires him. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Bring the kids!
     
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  20. aluminum seats

    aluminum seats Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Saw it, liked it, but was a bit disappointed. I went in with very high expectations having seen the trailer, and I like Phoenix a lot. Thought he was great and the movie looks great and overall it was good. I thought the script could’ve used some work, developing the character of Joker a bit more throughout, developing more of a slow build in his psychosis. As it was, he’s getting his ass kicked in the first scene, so there wasn’t really anywhere for it to go. But still, very solid, and Phoenix was awesome. Hell of a dancer too lol.
     

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