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Movie: Joker

Discussion in 'The PatsFans.com Pub' started by slash83, Sep 12, 2019.

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  1. captain insano

    captain insano Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    he's been in a lot of really good movies. The yards. we own the night was excellent. the chase scene in the rain was intense. Robert Duvall was in that one.
     
  2. fnordcircle

    fnordcircle The poster who James White said inspires him. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I really don't like the 'incel gets justice' spin people (who I suspect haven't seen it) are putting on this movie. This character is not an incel. An incel isn't simply a guy who can't get chicks or is socially awkward or osmething. An incel is a person who has decided to rather than to work on self-improvement that it is easier to turn to hatred of women to explain why they aren't getting laid. It's not that they need to do some exercise and work on social skills it's that women are vacuous, golddigging size queens who only like assholes. Your average basement dwelling loser virgin stereotype is an infinitely better quality human being than an incel. Read incel discussion forums - they jerk off to fantasies about raping women as punishment for what incels perceive as injustice because other guys get more snatch than them. Even the term 'involuntary celibate' implies a state of victimhood that has been inflicted on a person. If your daily routine involves a heavy dose of sitting in front of your desk posting impotent rage-filled missives about how women deserve to get raped for the 'crime' of not being sexually available the ugly person you will become will repulse any person regardless of what is between their legs. I despise incels and I'm deeply annoyed that people are trying to chalk Phoenix's Joker up as one. There's nothing incel about him.

    There's clear social commentary about both inequality and mental illness. I do not think the main character is portrayed as a hero. Think Breaking Bad but you definitely hit a point where it is even less ambiguous about what the main character has become.

    It was not an easy watch, a few tough moments here and there. Some really interested ideas and a terrifically filmed movie. You can almost smell the early 80s sewer of a city that was NYC.

    It oddly reminds me of The Wrestler in a lot of ways but I can't really put my finger on how because Rourke's character in that movie was hardly a bad guy. Just something about the tone and odd vulnerability of both characters.

    I watched a ****ty cam and I think it almost made it better in some ways. I'm going to go see it in the theaters this weekend but I got tired of waiting. It's only a comic book movie in a few superficial ways.
     
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  3. Tunescribe

    Tunescribe PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter Weekly Picks Winner

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    In a way you're saying being an incel is not a real "thing," which is something I agree with. As I've noted before, they're just men/boys who won't court the women available to them at their own level of looks and status. Whatever angst or injustice they feel is entirely self-inflicted.
     
  4. fnordcircle

    fnordcircle The poster who James White said inspires him. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think that's oversimplifying it a bit much. It's not just about going for girls outside of their range it is often about lacking the confidence to go after any girl. The inevitable resulting lack of success leaves them feeling self-loathing but then here comes incel social media to tell them it isn't their fault it's the fault of women who are all loathsome, shallow people. You don't need to try and work on improving your game you're being victimized by women withholding vagina from you because women are awful, inhuman creatures.

    To me the real definition of an incel is someone who redirects hatred for self born out a lack of sexual success then turns that into a hatred for and dehumanizing of women and takes no accountability for the things they themselves could do to fix their situation.
     
  5. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Florida Man PatsFans.com Supporter

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    This part is where I theorize that legalized prostitution may solve a lot of these violent crimes. They don’t have to approach women, talk to them, etc. Just shell out the coin and shed some goo. That won’t eliminate the psychos but it’ll eliminate the people who have gone crazy because they either have never gotten laid or haven’t gotten laid in a long time. Plus it’s taxed. Win win.
     
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  6. YOUGOTMOSSED

    YOUGOTMOSSED In the Starting Line-Up

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    Okay, just saw the movie.

    Well written. Great acting by Phoenix.

    ******spoiler alert*****

    The "incel" aspect seems to be part and parcel of growing up the victim of an abusive mother (similar to Norman Bates in Psycho). We learn that Penny Fleck was a lying, manipulative, abusive parent who made Arthur Fleck into what he was- a hopelessly damaged adult. Arthur learning the truth about his mother wasn't a salvation; it just drove him deeper into madness until he became the Joker.

    I imagine this is why the SJW crowd dislikes the film so much. The incel is the victim of an evil woman and a government that doesn't care about him. TO them, such notions are blasphemy.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2019
  7. YOUGOTMOSSED

    YOUGOTMOSSED In the Starting Line-Up

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    Prostitution is really not the sort of thing we, as a society, want to encourage women to do.

    As for the movie (I just noticed your post saying you haven't seen it yet), I'm not a professional psychologist but I'll go out on a limb and say that Arthur Fleck issues went well beyond the point where he could have turned it around simply by getting laid by a hooker.
     
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  8. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Florida Man PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yeah, you’re not stopping the psychos with legalized prostitution. Nothing can do that. But it’ll stop the repressed virgin types and it’ll probably help a bit with suicide rates. And you don’t have to encourage women to do that. They make that decision on their own when they’re an adult.
     
  9. supafly

    supafly James White pays me for shoutouts PatsFans.com Supporter Weekly Picks Winner

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    I just couldn’t imagine paying some dirty hooker for a BJ. I’d be too worried to even focus on the act. I’m sure that you’re right and lots of people would do it, though.
     
  10. YOUGOTMOSSED

    YOUGOTMOSSED In the Starting Line-Up

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    I'd rather live in a world where women used their youth and beauty to lock down good husbands and raise families. Hookers flame out after about 5 years and usually wind up as public charges.
     
  11. Boomer B

    Boomer B Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Saw Joker last night.

    Where to begin. It’s unlike any comic book movie ever made, and pretty much the darkest movie I’ve ever seen. I thought it was brilliant. Hand the best actor award to J. Phoenix now.

    The movie basically follows Arthur Fleck in his decent into madness until he ultimately becomes the Joker. It’s unrelenting, never giving the viewer any sort of break. Gotham City in this movie is a dirty metropolis spilling over the brim with crime, despair, and garbage piling up.

    Joker is a slow grind and if you’re looking for an action or fantasy movie this isn’t it, but it is a movie that will have you thinking about it long after you’ve left the theatre.

    9.5/10
     
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  12. YOUGOTMOSSED

    YOUGOTMOSSED In the Starting Line-Up

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    A valid criticism of the movie is lack of originality.

    The script seems to be a fusion of "King of Comedy" with "Taxi Driver" with "Psycho."

    Still enjoyed the film but can see their point.
     
  13. YOUGOTMOSSED

    YOUGOTMOSSED In the Starting Line-Up

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    The sort of people that are giving the negative reviews are the sort of people this film is criticizing. The bad reviews I've read seem to be missing the point of the movie entirely.
     
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  14. YOUGOTMOSSED

    YOUGOTMOSSED In the Starting Line-Up

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    I'm with you. Haven't been to the movies in a while (Hacksaw Ridge was the last time I went to see something in the theater and can't remember the time before that).

    It's been awhile since Hollywood produced something that isn't a huge flaming pile of dogsh*t. Joker is brilliant. I'm still getting my head around it. May even see it again.
     
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  15. Boomer B

    Boomer B Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    It’s funny you said your still getting your head around it. One of my buddies I went with said after it ended he didn’t like it. Said it was to dark and depressing. He phoned me the next day and said he’d been thinking about it and now felt it was a really good movie. That’s what this movie does, it stays with you and keeps you thinking about it.
     
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  16. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Florida Man PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Just saw it. It makes quite a statement on mental illness and how it’s treated within society. I can’t imagine why anyone would bring their children to that movie, as someone earlier in the thread said. It’s not a kid’s comic book movie. I thought it was excellent and a much different way of looking at the character. And yeah, this one does stay with you. Phoenix has to be a shoe-in for a Best Actor Oscar. If he doesn’t get it, it’ll be because of some straight up political Hollywood BS. That movie stood out head and shoulders above what was otherwise a year of turds.
     
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  17. Boomer B

    Boomer B Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Been hearing calls for this Joker to be brought back in a future Batman movie. I just don’t see it.

    * Minor Spoilers *

    While this was a brilliant movie it works best as a stand alone film. They did a fantastic job of showing Fleck’s transformation into the Joker, but I don’t see this rendition of the character being much of a match for Batman.

    Joker in the comics has genius level intellect which allows him to stay 2 steps ahead of Batman and pull off his elaborate schemes. This was what Nolan did so well in The Dark Knight. Combining the craziness of the Joker while always being a step ahead of Batman, even when he was caught. This rendition of the Joker would not be able to outsmart Batman and obviously wouldn’t win in a fight. They should just leave this film be as it is. No need to bring him back.
     
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  18. YOUGOTMOSSED

    YOUGOTMOSSED In the Starting Line-Up

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    The negatives reviews of the film come across as odd. It's as if they're trying too hard to find reasons not too like it. By any objective standard, it's a great film- well shot, fantastic acting, compelling story.

    ***spoilers***
    One interesting theory behind that: For the critics (the main stream media)- The Joke is on them. Fleck initially comes across as someone we feel sympathy for as he's struggling with a mental condition, wants to be perceived as a good person who cares for his elderly mom/ wants to bring laughter to the world, is a target of terrible abuse from society, and seems desperate for attention. When he tries to do standup comedy (something positive), he struggles due to a mental condition- how does the media react? It makes fun of him. It gives negative attention- which contributes to his descent into madness.
    When Fleck goes off the deep end and commits acts of violence-how does the media react? It makes his mysterious "clown" character out to be some kind of hero and leader of a movement. Fleck seems to take this as "positive" attention-which further accelerates his descent into madness.
    This, in effect, is holding a mirror up to the members of the main stream media and, clearly, they don't like what they see.

    This is the brilliance of the movie.
     
  19. fnordcircle

    fnordcircle The poster who James White said inspires him. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't know how to communicate my rage at you right now.

    It is, 100%, Falling Down. Just swap the mentally ill wife for a mentally ill mother and put face paint on the main character instead of a tie.
     
  20. fnordcircle

    fnordcircle The poster who James White said inspires him. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    @KontradictioN @YOUGOTMOSSED @supafly and anyone else who has seen it.

    Please explain the incel connection because I didn't see it. Incels aren't losers who can't get a girlfriend. Incels are ****ing losers who won't take accountability and turn to hatred of women. Is Arthur a loser? Sure. But absolutely nothing he does suggests that his lack of romantic or sexual accomplishments are the results of women being awful creatures with is the lazy go-to for incel assholes.
     
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