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Massachusetts millionaire 9% tax another factor working against Pats in Free agency

Dingleberry

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I should invite you up here to my new state of NH, one without an income tax. The problem though is that between the transplanted Massholes (not me of course), the organized out-of-state college students that arrive in buses and the mules who bring in boxes of votes from who knows where, even we have too many taxes, or fees as they like to call them. I think you can guess who "they" are.
Well said.

In case you are wondering who hit the Pats trophies upvote thing.
 

borg

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Arizona has an income tax for high-end earners.
All wage earners in Arizona pay state income tax
For NFL players, the Washington B&O tax will depend on how they structure their businesses.
Does not apply to NFL salaries
Washington also has a 9+% Sales tax, as is typical in no-income-tax states. This does make it more attractive to rich people, because rich people do well in no-income-tax states, while the lower economic classes get hit hard in terms of fees, sales taxes, property taxes, etc.
Irrelevant to the conversation
Washington has no state income tax despite your attempts to justify your misinformation
I have family in FL who pay the equivalent of a 6% tax on 50k on their house insurance (and they don't live in a flood area) ABOVE what I pay for insurance in MA, and that on a house that's worth about half of mine.
You have family that lives in a hurricane state
I have family in Michigan who love apple sauce
All irrelevant but keep deflecting away from your misinformation post
Like my feathers?
You're special all right
 

50-yard-line

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All wage earners in Arizona pay state income tax
Okay, on a plane from LA and bored. I'll play.
Yep, you're correct. Don't know why I typed AZ - I meant NV. Sue me. AZ's brackets cracked me up when I looked it up. Marginal brackets barely noticeable.
Does not apply to NFL salaries
Not sure about this - do you have a definitive link? NFL players are 1099, as far as I know, and so can be considered contractors or employees, dependent on state. There's a 7% cap gains tax that would certainly affect any players buying/selling a home, and the B&O tax is still being ironed out.
I have writer friends in Seattle who are subject to it because of the way they structured their businesses. My main client is in Renton - I'm out there a lot and hear from them all the time.
Irrelevant to the conversation
Washington has no state income tax despite your attempts to justify your misinformation
You're entitled to your opinion, but a sales tax as high as 10.6 in some cities is money, right? But a Maybach Mercedes or equivalent and that's real money. Move your family there, but a few high-end cars and it counts - and if not, then when are we talking about it?
You have family that lives in a hurricane state
I have family in Michigan who love apple sauce
All irrelevant but keep deflecting away from your misinformation post
My family members moved there to escape income tax - it's hilarious to me that they're paying what amounts to a HIGHER fee than the MA tax. I have a house in SoCal - as much flood potential as they have. Pay less than half what they pay on a house that's worth seven times theirs. FL house insurance is an utter disaster.
You're special all right
Sorry I hurt your feelings. You're the one who started with the insults.
 

50-yard-line

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Although Hill is a crappy person, it is a little different than a lottery winner complaining about the taxes. He looked at two similar offers and decided Miami's offer was basically 6-8% more (when you factor in taxes in away cities) than the Jets when you factor in taxes.

I think for a lot of players it is a factor. It can be a significant difference if you are comparing similar offers from a team in a tax free state vs. a state with a high tax rate. But it doesn't stop the states with high tax rates from getting talent because most players will factor other things beyond the tax.
Sure, I get that. It's half the games (47-53%, right?)...so more like 4.5% compared to MA on income over 1million. Or do home cities tax games in other states with no tax. Not sure on that.

I'm sure the teams in the states pitch it that way - I would - but seriously, if you're complaining about taxes on a 5+million income, you've got bigger issues than taxes, imo.
 

Rob0729

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Sure, I get that. It's half the games (47-53%, right?)...so more like 4.5% compared to MA on income over 1million. Or do home cities tax games in other states with no tax. Not sure on that.

I'm sure the teams in the states pitch it that way - I would - but seriously, if you're complaining about taxes on a 5+million income, you've got bigger issues than taxes, imo.

Don't forget most players get a significant portion of their money off of bonuses that are taxed in the state of the team. If you get a contract for $100 million with $30 million in signing bonuses, only half of $70 million would be taxed in the state of the team of the opposing team.
 

40yrpatsfan

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If you're going to peacock like a know-it-all, at least get your facts straight.
(Arizona ?????..........LMFAO)

Currently, the states with no individual income tax include:

  1. Alaska
  2. Florida
  3. Nevada
  4. New Hampshire
  5. South Dakota
  6. Tennessee
  7. Texas
  8. Washington
  9. Wyoming
That's 8 teams, a quarter of the league. For a highly paid player in a tax-free state, a little over half of his income is free of state tax, so their state tax rate averaged is 3-4%. For a highly paid Pats player (or in another high-tax state), his state tax rate averaged is around 7%. So there's a 3-4% difference.
 

50-yard-line

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Don't forget most players get a significant portion of their money off of bonuses that are taxed in the state of the team. If you get a contract for $100 million with $30 million in signing bonuses, only half of $70 million would be taxed in the state of the team of the opposing team.
This is really interesting to me - I hadn't even considered how they might handle that. The signing bonus, depending on how the contract is written (it's up to the team, apparently) is taxed in the player's HOME state. So a Raven living in PA pays less than one living in, say, Jersey.
So MA player living in New Hampshire can escape the State Tax on a SIGNING BONUS, even in a restructure, if the Pats structure it correctly (although the Pats would lose the deduction, I expect).

Read another tidbit, as well: the Cowboys train in CA, so their players are getting hit with CA taxes for a portion of their $$$.

Crazy stuff.
But again, bottom line: people making millions and millions worrying about taxes blows my mind.
 

40yrpatsfan

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Don't forget most players get a significant portion of their money off of bonuses that are taxed in the state of the team. If you get a contract for $100 million with $30 million in signing bonuses, only half of $70 million would be taxed in the state of the team of the opposing team.
If this is true, then it's a bigger spread than what I stated earlier - rather a 3-4% diff, it's a 5-6% difference. I'm not sure why a player with a large bonus couldn't claim that it's really just pre-paid salary, cause that's what it is.
 

Patsgofor4

In the Starting Line-Up
If you're going to peacock like a know-it-all, at least get your facts straight.
(Arizona ?????..........LMFAO)

Currently, the states with no individual income tax include:

  1. Alaska
  2. Florida
  3. Nevada
  4. New Hampshire
  5. South Dakota
  6. Tennessee
  7. Texas
  8. Washington
  9. Wyoming
South Dakota is still a state?
 

Pape

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
All the peeps concerned about the state income tax vs states w/o said tax, you do realize that you still pay, right? It may not be a direct tax, but they still gonna get your money one way or another for their budgets...
 

TommyD4207

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
Although Hill is a crappy person, it is a little different than a lottery winner complaining about the taxes. He looked at two similar offers and decided Miami's offer was basically 6-8% more (when you factor in taxes in away cities) than the Jets when you factor in taxes.

I think for a lot of players it is a factor. It can be a significant difference if you are comparing similar offers from a team in a tax free state vs. a state with a high tax rate. But it doesn't stop the states with high tax rates from getting talent because most players will factor other things beyond the tax.
I'm sure Zack Wilson vs. Tua had no impact on his decision at all.
 

40yrpatsfan

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This is really interesting to me - I hadn't even considered how they might handle that. The signing bonus, depending on how the contract is written (it's up to the team, apparently) is taxed in the player's HOME state. So a Raven living in PA pays less than one living in, say, Jersey.
So MA player living in New Hampshire can escape the State Tax on a SIGNING BONUS, even in a restructure, if the Pats structure it correctly (although the Pats would lose the deduction, I expect).

Read another tidbit, as well: the Cowboys train in CA, so their players are getting hit with CA taxes for a portion of their $$$.

Crazy stuff.
But again, bottom line: people making millions and millions worrying about taxes blows my mind.
if your salary is $20m/yr, the MA 9% tax = $1.8m/yr. Over a 4 year contract that's $7.2m, it's not a few dollars around the margins.

And that's on top of 37% federal and 2.5% fica/med. Total taxes are therefore 48.5%, so of their $20m salary they only get $10.3m. The $1.8m of state tax is really about 15% of their take home pay.

Up to about 5%, people don't care much about state tax, "it is what it is". 9% is outrageous though, and players will "worry" about it.
 
Last edited:

patfanken

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Here's what I think.

COULD the extra tax keep a player from coming to the Pats in favor of a lower taxed state? Sure that's possible, I guess. It probably would be A consideration. But a major one? I think not. A player considers the money of course, but players first and foremost want to WIN. Second they want to go where they will get plenty of playing time so they can get recognition and play in a "system" that can maximize their individual skills. THAT recognition is what allows them to get all the OTHER money that comes with a good NFL career.

As we start to get to an age where the minimum payment is getting close to $1MM/yr we are reaching the point were a 4 year stay at then end of team's bench SHOULD give a player a life time of financial security.,.. if they are smart with that $4-6MM

Now as to taxes in general. 1. EVERYONE hates to pay them, YET everyone wants most of the services that taxes provide. 2. Our "progressive" tax system, isn't at all fair. Upper income brackets have dropped from a top rate of 90% back in the 50's down to around 34% now, which is the LOWEST by far, of any industrialized nation and if you know a multimillionaire who actually pays 34% of their income in federal taxes they should fire their accountant because of VAST loopholes in current tax law allow for massive deductions to the wealthy simply because THEY are the ones writing the hundreds of pages of small print we never see that allow for the wealthy to often pay less than that 34%

Now usually I'd use Trump as an exemplar of a wealthy person who abused the tax system, but I don't want to go down that road. So I'll use a politician I respect and voted for who did it too. Mitt Romney back in 2011 when be published his return prior to his presidential run, it was noticed that HE paid just 14% of his income in taxes. What was even more shocking (and to his credit) left more money on the table that he COULD have deducted. It clearly showed there was something seriously wrong with our tax system when the guy getting $15/hr at the grocery store or the garage is paying around 24%.

So here's the thing. We are STILL the richest nation in the world and given the amount of wealth that is created every year, we SHOULD be able to afford everything we need as far as infrastructure, defense, education, etc IF we were willing to pay our "fair share" But NOT paying taxes has become the national pastime to EVERYONE's disadvantage (except the wealthiest 10%. who essentially write the tax codes to their benefit)

I think i recall it was in the mid 1880's when our nation had it's greatest DISPARITY in the gap between rich and poor in our nation's history. That disparity shrank until 1978 where it that disparity reached its lowest in US history. SINCE 1981 it has consistently grown year after year until our "middle class" has shrunk to almost nonexistence. Now fortunately, I won't live to see it, but if we keep on this path we will soon get to the point where we will get to a 2 class system of haves and have nots

Of course that assumes a global warming catastrophe doesn't wreck the world economy or Donald Trump's lies about the 2020 election (or ANY election he doesn't win) doesn't upend the BEDROCK of our democracy which is our belief in the fairness of our election system. Those LIES, as transparent as they were, made about 30% of Americans believe them DESPITE the evidence to the contrary, and severely has damaged our democracy. To the point, I believe, where we could very well be a one party nation within a couple of decades

People forget that back in 1932 Germany was the most educated and tolerant democracy in Europe. That year Hitler's Nazi party came to power with Hitler as essentially the VP. A year later the Hindenburg was dead and by 1935 democracy was dead in Germany. It can happen THAT quickly. and I'm sure that many in this country would welcome that kind of system....at least of a while.

Sorry that my thoughts on the MA tax situation has veered off the rails into another rant. But my rant is about as much about football as so many on this board lately, so I just want to have my say. Feel free to delete it, or mute it, or whatever we do these days, I won't be offended. ;)
 

Le Numéro Douze

In the Starting Line-Up
Here's what I think.

COULD the extra tax keep a player from coming to the Pats in favor of a lower taxed state? Sure that's possible, I guess. It probably would be A consideration. But a major one? I think not. A player considers the money of course, but players first and foremost want to WIN. Second they want to go where they will get plenty of playing time so they can get recognition and play in a "system" that can maximize their individual skills. THAT recognition is what allows them to get all the OTHER money that comes with a good NFL career.

As we start to get to an age where the minimum payment is getting close to $1MM/yr we are reaching the point were a 4 year stay at then end of team's bench SHOULD give a player a life time of financial security.,.. if they are smart with that $4-6MM

Now as to taxes in general. 1. EVERYONE hates to pay them, YET everyone wants most of the services that taxes provide. 2. Our "progressive" tax system, isn't at all fair. Upper income brackets have dropped from a top rate of 90% back in the 50's down to around 34% now, which is the LOWEST by far, of any industrialized nation and if you know a multimillionaire who actually pays 34% of their income in federal taxes they should fire their accountant because of VAST loopholes in current tax law allow for massive deductions to the wealthy simply because THEY are the ones writing the hundreds of pages of small print we never see that allow for the wealthy to often pay less than that 34%

Now usually I'd use Trump as an exemplar of a wealthy person who abused the tax system, but I don't want to go down that road. So I'll use a politician I respect and voted for who did it too. Mitt Romney back in 2011 when be published his return prior to his presidential run, it was noticed that HE paid just 14% of his income in taxes. What was even more shocking (and to his credit) left more money on the table that he COULD have deducted. It clearly showed there was something seriously wrong with our tax system when the guy getting $15/hr at the grocery store or the garage is paying around 24%.

So here's the thing. We are STILL the richest nation in the world and given the amount of wealth that is created every year, we SHOULD be able to afford everything we need as far as infrastructure, defense, education, etc IF we were willing to pay our "fair share" But NOT paying taxes has become the national pastime to EVERYONE's disadvantage (except the wealthiest 10%. who essentially write the tax codes to their benefit)

I think i recall it was in the mid 1880's when our nation had it's greatest DISPARITY in the gap between rich and poor in our nation's history. That disparity shrank until 1978 where it that disparity reached its lowest in US history. SINCE 1981 it has consistently grown year after year until our "middle class" has shrunk to almost nonexistence. Now fortunately, I won't live to see it, but if we keep on this path we will soon get to the point where we will get to a 2 class system of haves and have nots

Of course that assumes a global warming catastrophe doesn't wreck the world economy or Donald Trump's lies about the 2020 election (or ANY election he doesn't win) doesn't upend the BEDROCK of our democracy which is our belief in the fairness of our election system. Those LIES, as transparent as they were, made about 30% of Americans believe them DESPITE the evidence to the contrary, and severely has damaged our democracy. To the point, I believe, where we could very well be a one party nation within a couple of decades

People forget that back in 1932 Germany was the most educated and tolerant democracy in Europe. That year Hitler's Nazi party came to power with Hitler as essentially the VP. A year later the Hindenburg was dead and by 1935 democracy was dead in Germany. It can happen THAT quickly. and I'm sure that many in this country would welcome that kind of system....at least of a while.

Sorry that my thoughts on the MA tax situation has veered off the rails into another rant. But my rant is about as much about football as so many on this board lately, so I just want to have my say. Feel free to delete it, or mute it, or whatever we do these days, I won't be offended. ;)
Could you please explain me why someone would respect Mitt ****ing Romney?
 

40yrpatsfan

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Romney's looking better by the day.

Someone like him with generations of wealth has advanced strategies for minimizing taxes that take years to develop, based on stock holdings, tax free municipal bonds, etc. He probably has $100m in holdings and sells 5% of it a year, at the long term capital gains rate (15-20% federal rate).

It's not comparable to an athlete with a max 10-year career who starts with nothing and makes all his money from wages (taxed 30-37% federal).
 

Water Boy

In the Starting Line-Up
Here's what I think.

COULD the extra tax keep a player from coming to the Pats in favor of a lower taxed state? Sure that's possible, I guess. It probably would be A consideration. But a major one? I think not. A player considers the money of course, but players first and foremost want to WIN. Second they want to go where they will get plenty of playing time so they can get recognition and play in a "system" that can maximize their individual skills. THAT recognition is what allows them to get all the OTHER money that comes with a good NFL career.

As we start to get to an age where the minimum payment is getting close to $1MM/yr we are reaching the point were a 4 year stay at then end of team's bench SHOULD give a player a life time of financial security.,.. if they are smart with that $4-6MM

Now as to taxes in general. 1. EVERYONE hates to pay them, YET everyone wants most of the services that taxes provide. 2. Our "progressive" tax system, isn't at all fair. Upper income brackets have dropped from a top rate of 90% back in the 50's down to around 34% now, which is the LOWEST by far, of any industrialized nation and if you know a multimillionaire who actually pays 34% of their income in federal taxes they should fire their accountant because of VAST loopholes in current tax law allow for massive deductions to the wealthy simply because THEY are the ones writing the hundreds of pages of small print we never see that allow for the wealthy to often pay less than that 34%

Now usually I'd use Trump as an exemplar of a wealthy person who abused the tax system, but I don't want to go down that road. So I'll use a politician I respect and voted for who did it too. Mitt Romney back in 2011 when be published his return prior to his presidential run, it was noticed that HE paid just 14% of his income in taxes. What was even more shocking (and to his credit) left more money on the table that he COULD have deducted. It clearly showed there was something seriously wrong with our tax system when the guy getting $15/hr at the grocery store or the garage is paying around 24%.

So here's the thing. We are STILL the richest nation in the world and given the amount of wealth that is created every year, we SHOULD be able to afford everything we need as far as infrastructure, defense, education, etc IF we were willing to pay our "fair share" But NOT paying taxes has become the national pastime to EVERYONE's disadvantage (except the wealthiest 10%. who essentially write the tax codes to their benefit)

I think i recall it was in the mid 1880's when our nation had it's greatest DISPARITY in the gap between rich and poor in our nation's history. That disparity shrank until 1978 where it that disparity reached its lowest in US history. SINCE 1981 it has consistently grown year after year until our "middle class" has shrunk to almost nonexistence. Now fortunately, I won't live to see it, but if we keep on this path we will soon get to the point where we will get to a 2 class system of haves and have nots

Of course that assumes a global warming catastrophe doesn't wreck the world economy or Donald Trump's lies about the 2020 election (or ANY election he doesn't win) doesn't upend the BEDROCK of our democracy which is our belief in the fairness of our election system. Those LIES, as transparent as they were, made about 30% of Americans believe them DESPITE the evidence to the contrary, and severely has damaged our democracy. To the point, I believe, where we could very well be a one party nation within a couple of decades

People forget that back in 1932 Germany was the most educated and tolerant democracy in Europe. That year Hitler's Nazi party came to power with Hitler as essentially the VP. A year later the Hindenburg was dead and by 1935 democracy was dead in Germany. It can happen THAT quickly. and I'm sure that many in this country would welcome that kind of system....at least of a while.

Sorry that my thoughts on the MA tax situation has veered off the rails into another rant. But my rant is about as much about football as so many on this board lately, so I just want to have my say. Feel free to delete it, or mute it, or whatever we do these days, I won't be offended. ;)

Why are liberal political posts like this allowed in the main form but conservative memes not allowed in the meme thread?
 

patfanken

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Could you please explain me why someone would respect Mitt ****ing Romney?
I actually thought he did a decent job of being Governor of MA. There have been a few Republican Governors in MA who have done good jobs here. I didn't always vote or agree with everything they did, but I could always respect the effort.

Of course the term "Republican" USED to represent a party of fiscal conservatism but could get behind public works and believed in the 2 party system, unlike the election denying, Jim Crow loving, fear mongers, who only believe in elections that THEY win. A party that wants to go back to the 50's, when everyone looked like them, thought like them, and everyone else simply "knew their place" These are the guys who are pissed they lost their privilege and want it back!

I never thought I would live to see anti-semitism end for the most part in my teens, only to watch it rise again 50 years later. I never thought I'd see a lot of things get worse as far as people taking care of people as I have watched over the last 10 years. Social discourse seems to be at an end. He who yells the loudest and has the best weapons rule in the US. We have over one mass shooting a DAY in this country, and the next country on the list has a fraction of that. A FRACTION..

There are a lot of different definitions of what a mass shooting is. I saw one that defined it as 4 or more deaths (not counting the shooter) That stat showed the US had 101 shootings of that description, the next largest number was Germany at 12 over the same period. Other stats define it as 3 or more deaths or injuries not counting the shooter. Under that definition we had over 600 last year.

For the record over 44,000 people were killed by guns last year about 53% by suicide, about 43% are homicides, and the rest are police related and "undetermined". Yet even common sense gun control laws like have to take a course and pass a test like we do to get a drivers licence, or not selling military weaponry to private citizens. or limiting the magazine sizes to 8-10 rather than the dozens you can buy now. Finally make sure dangerous or crazy people cannot buy weapons. But mention any of these simple common sense things to a card carrying member of the NRA and YOU will be the one considered dangerous and crazy. But the fact is the gun industry makes BILLIONS annually so a frightened and scared populous is good for business, even if it isn't good for one's health.

We are the ONLY damned industrialized country in the WORLD that has this problem at even CLOSE to this rate. Why is that?

God I need to stop doing this at 3am. I'm REALLY going to start pissing some people off.
 

patfanken

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Why are liberal political posts like this allowed in the main form but conservative memes not allowed in the meme thread?
Hey don't blame Ian. IF you want to complain complain directly to me. I'm available. BTW- this wasn't a "liberal" post and it pisses me off that you think you can label something without understanding it and think you can dismiss with a term YOU think is derogatory. There are PLENTY of right wing voices here. Stop whining.
 

Pape

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
Why are liberal political posts like this allowed in the main form but conservative memes not allowed in the meme thread?
because some people decided they could do what ever they wanted because memes, took advantage of Ian's leniency, and then berated, belittled and bullied anyone who dared to say peep about it? aka they acted like entitled assholes and ruined it for everyone with their egotistical attitudes

That would be my guess
 

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