Mac Watch [Very Old Thread from 2022]

[Kontradiction]

Sorry I missed this response.

You think a "fly" or "post" is too complicated for Meyers? I am lost. Meyers has run lots of "flys" over the years, if you remember he gave up on a fly and Brady overthrew him, and Brady was pissed. Maybe you mean Meyers does not run the fly, corner, and post well? Agreed. Meyers runs those routes but does not get separation? Agreed. That is not who Meyers is. Bourne does not run the middle of field adjustments well. Meyers is like Edelman in that he adjusts on the fly (not during a fly route ), which seems to be a challenge for others. Bourne is lost in the MOF when it comes to adjusting to the defense - hence my comment about Borne not getting the decision making like Meyers.

What is a "robust route tree"? Not sure what that is. Sounds like something people say when they want to win an discussion. Meyers is who he is which at the moment is the most productive Patriots receiver. Maybe we agree on this?

I’ve never said they’re too complicated. Read the post again. I said he doesn’t have the athleticism to get separation on those routes whereas his route running ability is more suited to the traditional slot role. But if you think he runs those routes, then great. Tell me specific games in which Meyers has run routes 7-9 and made a play. If you could be even more helpful and give me quarter and time remaining on the clock so I can fast forward to it on the all-22, even better. If not, then the game should be fine.

I could save you the time - he doesn’t run those routes unless it’s a broken coverage and the team is playing sandlot ball. That’s why he’s used in the more traditional slot role - crossers, slants, hitches, etc. But yes, we agree that he’s been the most productive receiver through two games in which the Pats have scored 24 points.

 

[Kontradiction]

You guys have never heard the term “more robust” before? More robust presentation? More robust model? More robust data set? I guess that’s just something my company uses.

 

[Boomer B]

You guys have never heard the term “more robust” before? More robust presentation? More robust model? More robust data set? I guess that’s just something my company uses.

I was always more interested in “bigger busts” than “more robust”, but I guess that’s just me.

 

[Boomer B]

With the change in O and offensive coaches I don’t think we can make any judgements on Mac yet. On one of the pre-game shows on Sunday they said that after watching game one an NFL personnel guy said the Pats offence went from a Masterclass to Pre-School. We’ll have to see how it plays out.

 

[PScottman]

More robust presentation? More robust model? More robust data set? I guess that’s just something my company uses.

 

[Zuma]

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I’ve never said they’re too complicated. Read the post again. I said he doesn’t have the athleticism to get separation on those routes whereas his route running ability is more suited to the traditional slot role. But if you think he runs those routes, then great. Tell me specific games in which Meyers has run routes 7-9 and made a play. If you could be even more helpful and give me quarter and time remaining on the clock so I can fast forward to it on the all-22, even better. If not, then the game should be fine.

I could save you the time - he doesn’t run those routes unless it’s a broken coverage and the team is playing sandlot ball. That’s why he’s used in the more traditional slot role - crossers, slants, hitches, etc. But yes, we agree that he’s been the most productive receiver through two games in which the Pats have scored 24 points.

Sorry this conversation is not robust enough for me to spend the time chasing down the quarter, time, and all-22. Last year Meyers ran a fly at the end of the season and dove to catch the ball over his shoulder - I do not remember the game. You can look it up if it is important to you - you started the conversation - not chasing after your made up objections.

 

[Ivan]

Bourne should be on the field more than Meyers, and I’m saying that even with the game Meyers had today. Meyers is steady, but far more limited than Bourne is. He’s quick in and out of cuts, but he’s no threat to break one after the catch. Bourne is, but for some reason, he’s either in Bill’s Doghouse or Fat Matt’s Outhouse.

I agree that Bourne needs the be on the field full time, he’s far more explosive that the other receivers, but Meyers has definitely earned both the trust and opportunity to be out there full time as well. Meyers doesn’t threaten defenses but he definitely finds the holes in the secondary and moves the chains. While it’s not an all world receiving corps they have the tools to help them win games.

 

[VJCPatriot]

2 games into sophomore season. How's he looking?

Unfortunately I see little, if any, difference in his weaknesses from his rookie season so far:
- Little zip on intermediate throws
- Does not feel or anticipate pressure well
- Quick internal clock doesn't allow him to go through progressions at times
- If he struggles to get velocity with his feet set, he has almost zero throwing ability on the run

Pros:
- Smart? Has learned the offense well I think?
- Motivated, good attitude
- ?

Middle of the road:
- Accuracy. Short throws mostly on point. Intermediate/deep a mixed bag.

Overall, I think he's got the brains and mindset, but would love to see him start to recognize pressure and consistently go through progressions and make good decisions.

Whoa, careful there Mikey. Any criticism of any Patriots player and the BB defense brigade will jump down your throat! Cos don't you know, BB never makes a mistake in the draft! All his picks turn into pro-bowl gold and any criticism means you're a troll! ... Although Mac was the first to break the trend, other than that we haven't had a pro-bowler since Donta Hightower... OOPS! Maybe Tyquan Thornton, oops he's on IR will break the mold?

 

[VJCPatriot]

The ball is sailing on him.

Use the tight ends.

Bourne should never come off of the field.

Well for him not to come off, that would predicate Bourne being ON the field in the first place.

Let's look at the snaps this game.

Parker 52 snaps.

Bourne 26 snaps.

Call me crazy but aren't those snaps inverted once you consider the actual production of those players so far through 2 games?

Parker literally had a GOOSE EGG this game, 0 receptions, 0 yards, and he gets 52 snaps!

PS Although Agholor was our leading receiver he only got a whopping 34 snaps?

How does Matt Patricia justify the usage of the WRs at all?!

Patriots Snap Counts vs. Steelers: Starting O-Line Gets Full Workload

Patriots Country breaks down the numbers and possible meanings behind the Pats’ playing time in New England’s Week 2 matchup against the Pittsburgh Steelers.

www.si.com

 

[NovaScotiaPatsFan]

Comparing a QB in 2002 to a QB in 2022 might as well be comparing different sports. Brady's 3,764 yards passing in 2002 was good enough for 6th and he lead the league in touchdowns at 28. Compare that to Mac last year and his 3,801 and yards were good enough for 13th and if a QB were to throw for 28 touchdowns last year that would have been 10th highest in the league.

I keep forgetting Brady played before the forward pass was invented.

 

[Kontradiction]

Sorry this conversation is not robust enough for me to spend the time chasing down the quarter, time, and all-22. Last year Meyers ran a fly at the end of the season and dove to catch the ball over his shoulder - I do not remember the game. You can look it up if it is important to you - you started the conversation - not chasing after your made up objections.

Ah, okay. So you’re just being c.unty again, then. Your butthurt lately is pretty obvious. Like a child that’s acting out to get his dad’s attention. You’ll get over whatever it is that I did to offend you.

FYI, the game you’re talking about (I think) is the Miami game from last season. That was out and up out of a bunch formation on the strong side. The reason that play happened is because the safety was late in coming over to help. The reason he had to dive to make the spectacular grab is because the corner caught up to him and was in his hip pocket.

Bourne has the more robust route tree. He should be on the field more. If or when he is, the offense will probably average more than 12 PPG.

 

[captain stone]

I don't know what a More Robust Tree is (sounds like a Seinfeld thing)...but does anyone here doubt that Bourne is Meyers just better and more dynamic ? They both need to be on the field with Agholor...is it rocket science? Phatt Matt?

Yep, if we're in 11 personnel then the 3 wides MUST be Bourne - Agholor - Meyers.

After all, haven't we been told that Bill runs a meritocracy here, or is all that just more bullsh!t?

 

[sb1]

Cos don't you know, BB never makes a mistake in the draft!

Eh we all know BB has made plenty of mistakes in the draft but picking Mac Jones at #15 in the 2021 draft is not one of them.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

FYI, the game you’re talking about (I think) is the Miami game from last season. That was out and up out of a bunch formation on the strong side. The reason that play happened is because the safety was late in coming over to help. The reason he had to dive to make the spectacular grab is because the corner caught up to him and was in his hip pocket.

Yes, agreed. To be clear, Myers and Bourne can run the same route tree. Meyers is plodding and therefore some of his routes are slow. Bourne on the other hand struggles to read the defense and therefore is not as good in the MOF. I think we agree on this.

What is more robust? Running faster and crisper routes, or quicker and smarter routes? I am not sure. Robust is a new word in football lingo to me.

Why do you always assume everyone that talks to you on PatsFans is "butt hurt"? My butt is fine, not sure why you are obsessed with posters' butts.

 

[mikey m]

Whoa, careful there Mikey. Any criticism of any Patriots player and the BB defense brigade will jump down your throat! Cos don't you know, BB never makes a mistake in the draft! All his picks turn into pro-bowl gold and any criticism means you're a troll! ... Although Mac was the first to break the trend, other than that we haven't had a pro-bowler since Donta Hightower... OOPS! Maybe Tyquan Thornton, oops he's on IR will break the mold?

Well we're 8 pages in and there's been plenty of conversation about the potential leading issues whether it be Mac, WR play, personnel decisions, playcalling, scheme, etc. Maybe the head-in-the-clouds BB defense/homer brigade exists primarily in your head?

 

[203Pat]

I keep forgetting Brady played before the forward pass was invented.

You can compare apples to oranges all you want. It was a run first league back then that was supplemented by the pass. The fact that Mac's numbers are slightly worse than a QB from 20 years ago isn't really the "gotcha" you think it is.

 

[Guts]

Why do you always assume everyone that talks to you on PatsFans is "butt hurt"? My butt is fine, not sure why you are obsessed with posters' butts.

He just like me

 

[Kontradiction]

Yes, agreed. To be clear, Myers and Bourne can run the same route tree. Meyers is plodding and therefore some of his routes are slow. Bourne on the other hand struggles to read the defense and therefore is not as good in the MOF. I think we agree on this.

What is more robust? Running faster and crisper routes, or quicker and smarter routes? I am not sure. Robust is a new word in football lingo to me.

Why do you always assume everyone that talks to you on PatsFans is "butt hurt"? My butt is fine, not sure why you are obsessed with posters' butts.

Bourne, when he actually plays, runs just about every single route in every single game. He has the quickness in and out of breaks to get open short and intermediate. He has the separation speed to get open deep.

Meyers, on the other hand, does not have the separation speed to get open deep unless there is a broken coverage assignment or, as I pointed out in that Miami game, his man gets caught in the trash. That’s why he’s effectively their slot receiver. He runs many of the same routes that Welker did.

When you combine these two facts, Bourne’s route tree is more robust. Or complete. Or stronger. Or healthier. Or whatever other adjective you’d like to use.

As for you being butthurt, it’s pretty obvious you are. Between that embarrassing tirade the other night and this, something has your ass chafed. You can either act like a little girl and be passive-aggressive about it, or you could air it out. Your choice.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Bourne, when he actually plays, runs just about every single route in every single game. He has the quickness in and out of breaks to get open short and intermediate. He has the separation speed to get open deep.

Meyers, on the other hand, does not have the separation speed to get open deep unless there is a broken coverage assignment or, as I pointed out in that Miami game, his man gets caught in the trash. That’s why he’s effectively their slot receiver. He runs many of the same routes that Welker did.

When you combine these two facts, Bourne’s route tree is more robust. Or complete. Or stronger. Or healthier. Or whatever other adjective you’d like to use.

As for you being butthurt, it’s pretty obvious you are. Between that embarrassing tirade the other night and this, something has your ass chafed. You can either act like a little girl and be passive-aggressive about it, or you could air it out. Your choice.

OK. I agree with your post. Nothing to air out. I was hammered the other night. No deep dark secrets. Love you man.