Mac or Zach?

[Tunescribe]

What’s incredible is the absolute clinic the Jets are giving on how to ruin a quarterback. You may have to rewind the highlight clip a few times, but I think it’s clear Wilson isn’t even to blame here. These aren’t errant throws or poorly read coverages. They are all miscommunications with the wide receivers, and it seems like ****ty routes run by the wide receivers. What’s amazing is how after an entire training camp, the QB and WRs are totally out of sync like they’ve never met each other.

Interception 1 - Not Wilson’s fault. Horrendous route run by Corey Davis, who lazily rounds off the cut instead of coming back for the ball over the middle. On the replay, you can see Wilson’s perspective…Davis completely fails to position himself in front of Jackson and looks like he’s on ice skates. Wilson’s pass goes to where Davis was supposed to sit, but Davis is way behind it, and it gets tipped for an INT.

Interception 2 - Not Wilson’s fault…this time Davis is running towards the sidelines with a little separation. The ball glides right through his hands, sails, and gets picked. The announcer immediately cries “Wilson…trying to be too aggressive” as though throwing a perfect pass, where only Davis could catch it, was a bad decision or an inaccurate throw.

Interception 3 - Unknown fault. Wilson thinks Moore will sit for the ball; Moore has a totally different idea. Incredible how little effort Moore gives in trying to recover.

Interception 4 - Unknown fault. Another miscommunication. Wilson thinks a receiver is running a certain route, but he doesn’t.

Now the moron Jets are saying Wilson can learn to be “boring.” Well, none of those interceptions were thrown into double coverage, were risky throws, etc…in fact, none of them were even errant. He was mechanically sound on every one of them. The problem here is (a) Corey Davis’s errors leading directly to two INTs, and (b) lack of preparation/reps between Wilson and the wide receivers, as their communication is terrible.

I dunno, IIB. Seems to me McMilfson reverted to his college "gunslinger" approach, which follows his expressed admiration for Aaron Rodgers. Too much faith in his arm, forcing balls into coverage; the Jete don't run a precise timing passing offense. Granted, Punky didn't have his full WR contingent and some of the misfires might've owed at least partly to that, but I think he's a victim of (1) bad coaching and (2) being overly aggressive while not using his head. The Jete coaches just aren't handling him properly.

 

[NewEraWithMac]

From what I read the pats defense played basic vanilla defenses and predictably let Wilson **** the bed. He even said in an interview after the game there was no disguising coming from the Patriots defense.

they never needed to…

That's because he's very flawed. Everything I said above in my first few posts, covered these flaws. Jay Cutler looked the part, too.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I dunno, IIB. Seems to me McMilfson reverted to his college "gunslinger" approach, which follows his expressed admiration for Aaron Rodgers. Too much faith in his arm, forcing balls into coverage; the Jete don't run a precise timing passing offense. Granted, Punky didn't have his full WR contingent and some of the misfires might've owed at least partly to that, but I think he's a victim of (1) bad coaching and (2) being overly aggressive while not using his head. The Jete coaches just aren't handling him properly.

Maybe his last two INTs. Really not sure who was to blame, but I think we can agree these weren’t forced hero-ball plays where he was dodging a chucking like Tua’s INT or what Mahomes did the other night while being tackled.

The first one was a routine slant over the middle. The second was a fairly routine throw that went right through the receivers hands. Maybe the next two were gunslinger throws…but whatever they were, they weren’t thrown where he thought the receiver was breaking.

In the end, Wilson is taking all the heat and got boo’d off the field in his first start. With the fans and locker room, either he sucks, or he’s an ******* blaming his teammates. Rock and hard place.

Rather than making the headline about ”These were terrible coaching mistakes, and all the players need to execute better”, the Jets serve up a watermelon to the media with a passive aggressive quote implying Wilson needs to listen to coaching and stop making bonehead. hero-ball throws. Whether or not he actually was, it’s such poor leadership at every level as usual.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Zach Wilson might be good, but the Jets are going to ruin him before he ever gets to that point.

Look at Sam Darnold. They threw him out like yesterday's trash. Now he's playing good football in Carolina. Apparently the only trash is the Jets roster

Similarly Mac's development has to be protected. Stop this crap shotgun garbage. Mac throwing a lot of short yardage is because the OLine sucks, not because he can't make all the throws. But all the bad play calling and repeat hits will give Mac bad behaviors.

The best thing to protect the kid is keep both TEs on the field as much as posssible unless it's 3rd and 8+. Always make the defense have to guess run first to buy Mac time when he throws. Also allow him to call either or both TEs to block if needed. Stop with this yard chasing shotgun skippy offense.

.

 

[Tunescribe]

Maybe his last two INTs. Really not sure who was to blame, but I think we can agree these weren’t forced hero-ball plays where he was dodging a chucking like Tua’s INT or what Mahomes did the other night while being tackled.

The first one was a routine slant over the middle. The second was a fairly routine throw that went right through the receivers hands. Maybe the next two were gunslinger throws…but whatever they were, they weren’t thrown where he thought the receiver was breaking.

In the end, Wilson is taking all the heat and got boo’d off the field in his first start. With the fans and locker room, either he sucks, or he’s an ******* blaming his teammates. Rock and hard place.

Rather than making the headline about ”These were terrible coaching mistakes, and all the players need to execute better”, the Jets serve up a watermelon to the media with a passive aggressive quote implying Wilson needs to listen to coaching and stop making bonehead. hero-ball throws. Whether or not he actually was, it’s such poor leadership at every level as usual.

I just re-watched the interceptions, all four were REALLY off target. The first was high and into essentially triple coverage, first touched by a Patriot. The second, a sideline route, was possibly catchable but again too high. The last two were just ridiculous prayers. Look at Punky's terrible mechanics -- all arm, not stepping into his throws. He thinks all he has to do is "sling it." He has physical ability but is not playing pro-caliber football. The fact he was "elected" a team captain is hilarious.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I just re-watched the interceptions, all four were REALLY off target. The first was high and into essentially triple coverage, first touched by a Patriot. The second, a sideline route, was possibly catchable but again too high. The last two were just ridiculous prayers. Look at Punky's terrible mechanics -- all arm, not stepping into his throws. He thinks all he has to do is "sling it." He has physical ability but is not playing pro-caliber football. The fact he was "elected" a team captain is hilarious.

I suspect some degree of confirmation bias for both of us. We’ll just agree to disagree but still laugh at Wilson and the Jets. Suckage is suckage, whoever is to blame.

Edit: I do think you’re right about the last pass. Terrible mechanics…he has plenty of space and folds up for no reason. The ball sails.

 

[NewEraWithMac]

I just re-watched the interceptions, all four were REALLY off target. The first was high and into essentially triple coverage, first touched by a Patriot. The second, a sideline route, was possibly catchable but again too high. The last two were just ridiculous prayers. Look at Punky's terrible mechanics -- all arm, not stepping into his throws. He thinks all he has to do is "sling it." He has physical ability but is not playing pro-caliber football. The fact he was "elected" a team captain is hilarious.

This is why I explained early on in this thread, making an athletic deep throw, while nice to look at when someone is open on a broken play, doesn't mean much in the NFL.

Those are plays Mahomes makes or maybe a Russell Wilson and they're fun to watch, but that can't be the best thing you do. It's just nice to have.

Seriously, go to You Tube, search on Zach WIlson highlights at BYU and see for yourself and then look at his schedule and the idea he actually had a worse season his last year at BYU than his previous year like Darnold did at USC. These are major red flags regardless if he 's a Jet or not.

And, then ask why he's listed at 6'3 when he clearly isn't.

 

[XLIX]

Is it a coincidence that Sam Darnold has probably had the best back-to-back games of his career now that he is finally out of NY, or is there some legit talent emerging which simply never had the chance to emerge in that ****hole franchise?

It makes me feel bad for Zach, and also bemoan the "should-be-illegal" draft system of forcing a college kid to play for only one specific team.

 

[Tunescribe]

Is it a coincidence that Sam Darnold has probably had the best back-to-back games of his career now that he is finally out of NY, or is there some legit talent emerging which simply never had the chance to emerge in that ****hole franchise?

It makes me feel bad for Zach, and also bemoan the "should-be-illegal" draft system of forcing a college kid to play for only one specific team.

There is no reason to feel bad for McMilfson, unless it's for lack of competent coaching. Otherwise pity him for being arrogant in his naiveté. He came in all brash and cokky, oblivious to the new world he was stepping into. This was only encouraged by the Johnsons and perpetuated by a moronic coaching regime that made him a freaking captain with no benefit of veteran QB mentoring.

 

[jah]

Is it a coincidence that Sam Darnold has probably had the best back-to-back games of his career now that he is finally out of NY, or is there some legit talent emerging which simply never had the chance to emerge in that ****hole franchise?

It makes me feel bad for Zach, and also bemoan the "should-be-illegal" draft system of forcing a college kid to play for only one specific team.

Fair point, but what replaces the draft? Just treat all rookies like UDFA but without restrictions on contracts? Maybe replace early draft positioning for worse teams with a bit of extra cap space.

 

[XLIX]

Fair point, but what replaces the draft? Just treat all rookies like UDFA but without restrictions on contracts?

Yes. Well, the restrictions on the contracts are still a matter of fitting under the salary cap. Or they could implement a hard cap on rookie salaries.

 

[BigPeteG]

Is it a coincidence that Sam Darnold has probably had the best back-to-back games of his career now that he is finally out of NY, or is there some legit talent emerging which simply never had the chance to emerge in that ****hole franchise?

It makes me feel bad for Zach, and also bemoan the "should-be-illegal" draft system of forcing a college kid to play for only one specific team.

Zach got screwed over - guy has tons of talent. And you shouldn't assume that his judgement is bad. It's very likely his WRs were running the wrong routes on several of those throws.

I know this is a Patriots board but thinking no one but Mac has any talent in the QB picks is pretty silly. Lawrence and Wilson just have **** teams. They are going to have to stay healthy and gut through it till they can escape..like Darnold.

 

[StockingAnarchyNumber12]

Zach got screwed over - guy has tons of talent. And you shouldn't assume that his judgement is bad. It's very likely his WRs were running the wrong routes on several of those throws.

I know this is a Patriots board but thinking no one but Mac has any talent in the QB picks is pretty silly. Lawrence and Wilson just have **** teams. They are going to have to stay healthy and gut through it till they can escape..like Darnold.

Lawrence is better than Wilson. Mac is better than Wilson. Us bashing on him isn't silly.

 

[NewEraWithMac]

Zach got screwed over - guy has tons of talent. And you shouldn't assume that his judgement is bad. It's very likely his WRs were running the wrong routes on several of those throws.

I know this is a Patriots board but thinking no one but Mac has any talent in the QB picks is pretty silly. Lawrence and Wilson just have **** teams. They are going to have to stay healthy and gut through it till they can escape..like Darnold.

What do you consider his talents as a prospect beyond his nice arm?

 

[VJCPatriot]

This thread and upcoming game would have been more fun if both the Jets n Pats were 1-0 vs 0-1, but such is life.

Disclaimer: Sorry if I'm not allowed to start a thread as a Jet fan. I'm not trying to cause issues for Ian or the mods. I think (hope) they know this. Just curious.

Go on the record. Zach or Mac? Who will be better?

I think we can all agree Mac is in the better situation (coach, supporting cast...).

But if you had the #2 overall pick now, whom would you pick? Zach or Mac?

Btw, cheers to a season w/fans again. And congrats on Mac! Kid looks good. Looking forward to seasons of battles. And especially this upcoming week.

I'm taking Mac all day and twice on Sundays. Is this even a conversation at this point? Maybe ask again if Zach manages to do something positive. I doubt that happens, but Zach Wilson looks set to spiral at this rate. 4 Ints in one game? OOF. I guess when you hit rock bottom at least you can only go up from there?

PS If all it took to succeed in the NFL was talent, there would be no busts in the 1st round. But as we can clearly see that's not true. You need a good head, you need work ethic, you need fight in your game. What has Wilson shown except the ability to throw pretty balls in uncontested situations in his shorts? Talent is overrated. You need an X factor besides talent to become great in the NFL, where everybody's overall athletic ability is much higher than what you encounter in the collegiate ranks.

 

[BigPeteG]

What do you consider his talents as a prospect beyond his nice arm?

He has everything you look for - smart kid, big arm, good mobility, can whip the fastball in there and yet can throw with touch. He can make reads and react quickly.. He can throw well on the run etc. Can make accurate throws.. None of that matters because he is on the Jets had the situation been reversed the people here would love Wilson and hate on Mac Jones and Lawrence.

This kid is another Sam Darnold. it doesn't matter how good you are if you have lazy wrs that run the wrong routes. Football is the ultimate team game. Tom Brady couldn't save the Jets - without dumping the coach, gm and owner..

 

[Pats1971]

He has everything you look for - smart kid, big arm, good mobility, can whip the fastball in there and yet can throw with touch. He can make reads and react quickly.. He can throw well on the run etc. Can make accurate throws.. None of that matters because he is on the Jets had the situation been reversed the people here would love Wilson and hate on Mac Jones and Lawrence.

This kid is another Sam Darnold. it doesn't matter how good you are if you have lazy wrs that run the wrong routes. Football is the ultimate team game. Tom Brady couldn't save the Jets - without dumping the coach, gm and owner..

Which he would probably do.

 

[Tunescribe]

He has everything you look for - smart kid, big arm, good mobility, can whip the fastball in there and yet can throw with touch. He can make reads and react quickly.. He can throw well on the run etc. Can make accurate throws.. None of that matters because he is on the Jets had the situation been reversed the people here would love Wilson and hate on Mac Jones and Lawrence.

This kid is another Sam Darnold. it doesn't matter how good you are if you have lazy wrs that run the wrong routes. Football is the ultimate team game. Tom Brady couldn't save the Jets - without dumping the coach, gm and owner..

He is athletic and has a strong arm, his mechanics are poor and decision-making questionable. You're wrong about people here "hating on him" just because he's with the Jete. He needs strict coaching and attitude tutoring and isn't getting it from that crap organization, that part isn't his fault.

 

[BigPeteG]

He is athletic and has a strong arm, his mechanics are poor and decision-making questionable. You're wrong about people here "hating on him" just because he's with the Jete. He needs strict coaching and attitude tutoring and isn't getting it from that crap organization, that part isn't his fault.

I do agree he is doomed. But if I am being honest I think BB would trade Mac Jones for him in an instant. How many elite QBs in the NFL do not have elite arm talent? Guys that have a big arm can whip it in there as soon as a guy gets beat... This is why guys who are athletic, have a big arm and are accurate will always go high in the draft.

If things were reversed we would he super happy with Wilson and be picking on Jones. It's the situation.. Don't get me wrong BB has proven he can work with average arm talent - don't forget Jimmy G has just average arm strength and is doing pretty well in SF. But its easy to understand why the Jets picked Wilson..

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

He has everything you look for - smart kid, big arm, good mobility, can whip the fastball in there and yet can throw with touch. He can make reads and react quickly.. He can throw well on the run etc. Can make accurate throws.. None of that matters because he is on the Jets had the situation been reversed the people here would love Wilson and hate on Mac Jones and Lawrence.

This kid is another Sam Darnold. it doesn't matter how good you are if you have lazy wrs that run the wrong routes. Football is the ultimate team game. Tom Brady couldn't save the Jets - without dumping the coach, gm and owner..

I don’t really see it with Darnold, to be honest. He has never looked like a talented guy being held back. I know he‘s had a couple of decent starts, but I’m skeptical. Yes, the Jets org is a joke and would ruin everyone, but I just don’t think Darnold would have succeeded anywhere. He would have been better, but he was so far below par over three years. Just doesn’t seem to have the vision or release, relies on mobility but isn’t quite big or quite fast enough. Doesn’t have consistent accuracy.

Wilson looks awesome…I don’t know what else to say. A great prospect the Jets will ruin. I came in very skeptical about him, but sometimes you can just tell when a guy has the tools when he takes snaps against NFL defenses. Wilson has all the tools, he doesn’t panic back there. and he seems like a good kid who has the intangibles, but he’ll fail with those bozos.