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Mac Jones vs. the other rookie QBs

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dreighver

In the Starting Line-Up
His arm strength is a concern. I hope he can improve this over time.

Can't say I agree. Mac's arm velocity isn't an elite strength (pun intended), but I don't think raw arm velocity is necessary (or even sufficient) for success at the quarterback position. Timing, decision-making, eye placement, preparation, pre-snap adjustments, accuracy, throwing players open ... those are the traits that consistently predict success of NFL quarterback's, not raw arm velocity.

Also worth noting that Mac is young and a rookie, which means two things: he has maturing to do in general (physically, mentally, emotionally), and he has a lot of headroom to grow into NFL shape since he has spent little time (relatively speaking) in an NFL facility.

He'll get stronger as he moves into his mid-to-late 20s and he'll get stronger as he trains within an NFL program specifically for the purpose of increasing core/lower body strength in order to improve arm velocity/zip.
 
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borg

Pro Bowl Player
2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
2021 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
His arm strength is a concern. I hope he can improve this over time.
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Ivan

Hall of Fame Poster
Kirk Cousons, one of the more accurate QB's in the league can't "throw WR's open" or "Drop dimes into their bread baskets" ... We all know that's false.

What does Mac do Kirk can't?

We have very little idea of what he “ can’t do” as a QB other than he won’t be ripping off 40 yard runs where he blows by people. His career will tell us that. But for what I’m looking for he’s exactly what they needed in a QB, he’s smart, tough, focused, learns really quickly, gets rid of the ball as fast as any QB out there, and he can handle adversity. What will determine whether he’s Kirk Cousins or a Manning , Brees, or Brady is making the big plays, which Cousins hasn’t done, and neither has Kones, but one is still a rookie. I don’t expect him to be the GOAT, but I’m not going to limit what he can be simply because he can’t run a 4.4. I’m not saying you are doing that, but that really seems to be the issue, and the truth, at least IMO, is that far more of the “ incredible ceilings “ have failed than the truly savvy QB prospects.
 

BaconGrundleCandy

#1 Mac Jones fan
PatsFans.com Supporter
Can't say I agree. Mac's arm velocity isn't an elite strength (pun intended), but I don't think raw arm talent is a necessary (or even sufficient) trait for success at the quarterback position. Timing, decision-making, eye placement, preparation, pre-snap adjustments, accuracy, throwing players open ... those are the traits that consistently predict success of NFL quarterback's, not raw arm velocity.

Also worth noting that Mac is young and a rookie, which means two things: he has maturing to do in general (physically, mentally, emotionally), and he has a lot of headroom to grow into NFL shape since he has spent little time (relatively speaking) in an NFL facility.

He'll get stronger as he moves into his mid-to-late 20s and he'll get stronger as he trains within an NFL program specifically for the purpose of increasing core/lower body strength in order to improve arm velocity/zip.
Mac has really good arm talent it's specifically the velocity which is lacking and a part of you'd define "arm talent" - touch, placement, velocity, accuracy ... So he his "arm talent" is actually a plus. It's just the velocity that isn't there but one of the easiest to improve. The rest are much harder. And you won't see "big" gains for the most part like you would in velocity.

Also most great QB's have great arm talent. The other stuff is more important but I'd argue not by much. You need arm talent to succeed in the league.

I think you're under-rating Cousins too. If we say Matt Ryan people are ok with it but truthfully there isn't a big gap between the two if we're being objective. Actually Cousins comes out ahead in several stats but again very similar. Same with Pennington. They're all very similar. None are bad comps or ceilings.

People just aren't accounting for surroundings and Cousins isn't cool. Cousins might be running the most simplistic offense in the league and until a few years ago never really had real targets. Ryan is in Atlanta enough said.
We have very little idea of what he “ can’t do” as a QB other than he won’t be ripping off 40 yard runs where he blows by people. His career will tell us that. But for what I’m looking for he’s exactly what they needed in a QB, he’s smart, tough, focused, learns really quickly, gets rid of the ball as fast as any QB out there, and he can handle adversity. What will determine whether he’s Kirk Cousins or a Manning , Brees, or Brady is making the big plays, which Cousins hasn’t done, and neither has Kones, but one is still a rookie. I don’t expect him to be the GOAT, but I’m not going to limit what he can be simply because he can’t run a 4.4. I’m not saying you are doing that, but that really seems to be the issue, and the truth, at least IMO, is that far more of the “ incredible ceilings “ have failed than the truly savvy QB prospects.
I don't care about QB's running. I evaluate and talk about if it's there but you obviously don't need to run in order to win in the NFL or college. Not sure why you're even bringing that up tbh?

I ask the poster I replied to what does Mac do Kirk can't? I won't get a legit answer bc he doesn't know but Mac is actually ahead of Kirk in at least one area. It's just silly to say Cousins doesn't throw his WR's open or he can't drop it in a bucket. You either haven't been watching him or just repeating what other people say.

Again Mac does something a lot better Cousins but I doubt the poster knows what.
 

BaconGrundleCandy

#1 Mac Jones fan
PatsFans.com Supporter
If you think Matt Ryan is a good comp or ceiling you can't be mad at Cousins. Don't mess with me. I'm a big stat guy.
Screenshot_2021-12-20-19-20-05~2.png
 

SouthernPatriot

Practice Squad Player
I never mentioned 2019 or 2020, you did trying to reframe the subject multiple times. My whole point was Fields faced plenty of top tier comp and ranked teams.
Well, 2019 and 2020 were the only years he was a starting QB in college, so not sure what other years you would be talking about!
You said he faced that many ranked teams, not me, and when I asked you to tell what ranked teams you avoided answering me and when you did, you were wrong!
He faced 3 ranked teams in 2019 and 2 in 2020.
 

DropKickFlutie

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
Well, 2019 and 2020 were the only years he was a starting QB in college, so not sure what other years you would be talking about!
You said he faced that many ranked teams, not me, and when I asked you to tell what ranked teams you avoided answering me and when you did, you were wrong!
He faced 3 ranked teams in 2019 and 2 in 2020.

Careful, BGC is a snowflake so will probably flip out now because he has really thin skin about anyone who disagrees. A headcase.
 

BaconGrundleCandy

#1 Mac Jones fan
PatsFans.com Supporter
Well, 2019 and 2020 were the only years he was a starting QB in college, so not sure what other years you would be talking about!
You said he faced that many ranked teams, not me, and when I asked you to tell what ranked teams you avoided answering me and when you did, you were wrong!
He faced 3 ranked teams in 2019 and 2 in 2020.

Wrong
MSU was not ranked in 19-20
Clemson was not regular season
Wisconsin was ranked 1 season
Penn State was ranked 1 season
They played 5 ranked teams in 2019 and 2020 in the regular season.
You tried saying Fields didn't have size, even compared to Lawrence and were wrong. His size is fine.

You tried saying he wasn't as accurate as Mac and Lawrence but ignored or didn't know Fields is arguably the most accurate college QB ever.

I gave you 8 ranked opponents and refuse to admit you're wrong.

You say MSU wasn't ranked 2019-20 ...
Screenshot_2021-12-20-20-55-41~2.png

You're like 0-4. And have the dumbest poster in the forum agreeing with you.
 

DropKickFlutie

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
or didn't know Fields is arguably the most accurate college QB ever.

Actually Mac Jones is the most accurate college QB ever, in the toughest division the SEC.

BGC remains a clown who hopes people forget how he kept saying predraft Trey Lance was the best QB, and kept making up completely false claims about Mac having a bad arm and not accurate on 2nd read throws. BGC is a total clown.

I am so glad this Patriot home run draft class was the exact opposite of what fake expert clown bacongrundlecandy wanted
.
 
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Ivan

Hall of Fame Poster
Mac has really good arm talent it's specifically the velocity which is lacking and a part of you'd define "arm talent" - touch, placement, velocity, accuracy ... So he his "arm talent" is actually a plus. It's just the velocity that isn't there but one of the easiest to improve. The rest are much harder. And you won't see "big" gains for the most part like you would in velocity.

Also most great QB's have great arm talent. The other stuff is more important but I'd argue not by much. You need arm talent to succeed in the league.

I think you're under-rating Cousins too. If we say Matt Ryan people are ok with it but truthfully there isn't a big gap between the two if we're being objective. Actually Cousins comes out ahead in several stats but again very similar. Same with Pennington. They're all very similar. None are bad comps or ceilings.

People just aren't accounting for surroundings and Cousins isn't cool. Cousins might be running the most simplistic offense in the league and until a few years ago never really had real targets. Ryan is in Atlanta enough said.

I don't care about QB's running. I evaluate and talk about if it's there but you obviously don't need to run in order to win in the NFL or college. Not sure why you're even bringing that up tbh?

I ask the poster I replied to what does Mac do Kirk can't? I won't get a legit answer bc he doesn't know but Mac is actually ahead of Kirk in at least one area. It's just silly to say Cousins doesn't throw his WR's open or he can't drop it in a bucket. You either haven't been watching him or just repeating what other people say.

Again Mac does something a lot better Cousins but I doubt the poster knows what.

I don’t disagree with this assessment, I bring up running because that and the other “ athletic” measureables is where Jones and other QB’s similar to him get knocked, but to me he has the pocket presence and enough mobility to be effective without taking off for big gains. I agree that he can continue to develop his velocity as he matures. The Cousins discussion doesn’t really matter to me, Jones will be measured by his achievements alone.
 

Ivan

Hall of Fame Poster
On a related topic, did anyone see Cam Newton against the Bills? He’s awesome, so are the football geniuses who wanted him to be the Patriots starter.
 

BaconGrundleCandy

#1 Mac Jones fan
PatsFans.com Supporter
I don’t disagree with this assessment, I bring up running because that and the other “ athletic” measureables is where Jones and other QB’s similar to him get knocked, but to me he has the pocket presence and enough mobility to be effective without taking off for big gains. I agree that he can continue to develop his velocity as he matures. The Cousins discussion doesn’t really matter to me, Jones will be measured by his achievements alone.
I can't stand when / if an analyst dings a prospect bc he can't run or w\e. It helps a prospect but certainly isn't a must to have a successful career.
On a related topic, did anyone see Cam Newton against the Bills? He’s awesome, so are the football geniuses who wanted him to be the Patriots starter.
Imagine being a Patriot fan and actually wanting Newton to start > Mac.
shut up pu ssy
He's obsessed lol. Someone PM'd a few weeks ago and showed me a few screenshots. Dude has taken his act on the road and is now posting on other boards. Poor guy needs a new hobby bc football isn't it for him. I see he's still lying and making things up about me. Honestly this is weird behavior.
Screenshot_2021-12-10-09-18-27~2.png
 

Ivan

Hall of Fame Poster
I can't stand when / if an analyst dings a prospect bc he can't run or w\e. It helps a prospect but certainly isn't a must to have a successful career.

Imagine being a Patriot fan and actually wanting Newton to start > Mac.

He's obsessed lol. Someone PM'd a few weeks ago and showed me a few screenshots. Dude has taken his act on the road and is now posting on other boards. Poor guy needs a new hobby bc football isn't it for him. I see he's still lying and making things up about me. Honestly this is weird behavior.
View attachment 39067

Wow, that is truly pathetic. And it’s really telling that his agenda matters more to him than the Patriots success. MacDaniels is doing an exceptional job with Jones and everyone knows it, but he wants MacDaniels gone simply because he doesn’t like him, and because his need to be perceived as being right is so important to his fragile ego.
 

BaconGrundleCandy

#1 Mac Jones fan
PatsFans.com Supporter
Wow, that is truly pathetic. And it’s really telling that his agenda matters more to him than the Patriots success. MacDaniels is doing an exceptional job with Jones and everyone knows it, but he wants MacDaniels gone simply because he doesn’t like him, and because his need to be perceived as being right is so important to his fragile ego.
He gets obsessed with certain things and doesn't let go. Plus he's just a liar. He loves making stuff. Case in point - this tweet. He pretends I said this and has followed me around for a year making stuff up lol
Unfortunately it looks like I'm on his list along with Josh. It's weird he used to @ me asking me questions and now I'm a dumb plumber.

A few months ago he said our RB's should only pass protect up the middle bc it was too tough to guess which side they should cover regarding the tackles lol. He's truly clueless, there's no other way to put it.
 

DropKickFlutie

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
I can't stand when / if an analyst dings a prospect bc he can't run or w\e. It helps a prospect but certainly isn't a must to have a successful career.

Imagine being a Patriot fan and actually wanting Newton to start > Mac.

He's obsessed lol. Someone PM'd a few weeks ago and showed me a few screenshots. Dude has taken his act on the road and is now posting on other boards. Poor guy needs a new hobby bc football isn't it for him. I see he's still lying and making things up about me. Honestly this is weird behavior.
View attachment 39067

What's hilarious is you can tell by the crappy punctuation it's some dork doing a really bad and obvious troll job. What a loser BaconGrundleCandy is to try to sling this crap. Shows how psycho this construction guy fake expert is
 

SouthernPatriot

Practice Squad Player
You tried saying Fields didn't have size, even compared to Lawrence and were wrong. His size is fine.

You tried saying he wasn't as accurate as Mac and Lawrence but ignored or didn't know Fields is arguably the most accurate college QB ever.

I gave you 8 ranked opponents and refuse to admit you're wrong.

You say MSU wasn't ranked 2019-20 ...
View attachment 39062

You're like 0-4. And have the dumbest poster in the forum agreeing with you.
Once again, you are wrong and change the narrative to fit your lack of knowledge.
In 2019 MSU was not ranked and was 4-2 when they played.
In 2020 MSU was 2-4
You tried saying Fields didn't have size, even compared to Lawrence and were wrong. His size is fine.

You tried saying he wasn't as accurate as Mac and Lawrence but ignored or didn't know Fields is arguably the most accurate college QB ever.

I gave you 8 ranked opponents and refuse to admit you're wrong.

You say MSU wasn't ranked 2019-20 ...
View attachment 39062

You're like 0-4. And have the dumbest poster in the forum agreeing with you.
Not sure where you got this photo, but it is not relevant.
In 2019 MSU was not ranked and 4-2 when they played Ohio St
In 2020 MSU was not ranked and was 2-4 when they played Ohio St
You are flat out wrong about it and sadly enough willing to post erroneous pics to cover up for your lack of knowledge!
Dude, that is an all time low!
 

SouthernPatriot

Practice Squad Player
You tried saying Fields didn't have size, even compared to Lawrence and were wrong. His size is fine.

You tried saying he wasn't as accurate as Mac and Lawrence but ignored or didn't know Fields is arguably the most accurate college QB ever.

I gave you 8 ranked opponents and refuse to admit you're wrong.

You say MSU wasn't ranked 2019-20 ...
View attachment 39062

You're like 0-4. And have the dumbest poster in the forum agreeing with you.
Just in case you want to continue with your false narrative, here are the dates, ranking, and outcomes of when Ohio St played MSU when you maintain MSU was ranked.
 

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BaconGrundleCandy

#1 Mac Jones fan
PatsFans.com Supporter
Once again, you are wrong and change the narrative to fit your lack of knowledge.
In 2019 MSU was not ranked and was 4-2 when they played.
In 2020 MSU was 2-4

Not sure where you got this photo, but it is not relevant.
In 2019 MSU was not ranked and 4-2 when they played Ohio St
In 2020 MSU was not ranked and was 2-4 when they played Ohio St
You are flat out wrong about it and sadly enough willing to post erroneous pics to cover up for your lack of knowledge!
Dude, that is an all time low!
Just in case you want to continue with your false narrative, here are the dates, ranking, and outcomes of when Ohio St played MSU when you maintain MSU was ranked.
You think I photoshopped the pic lol? What a weirdo.
Screenshot_2021-12-20-20-52-30~2.png

This one photoshopped too lol
Screenshot_2021-12-21-16-56-58~2.png

I'm going to do what every guy has done to you in the past in situations like this. Smile, nod, say you're right and bounce.
 

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