LoMo poll

[MassPats38]

Running back performances are closely coupled with the offensive game plans. If you look historically, running backs like Earl Campbell, Jim Brown and Barry Sanders would succeed in virtually any scheme on pure ability, but they are the exception. Running back success has as much to do with receiving corps (ie., it's easier to run on a pass defense than a run defense, which would be the more likely defensive scheme if the receiving corps is good), run blocking competency (Denver's chop blocking, quick offensive line that seems to make any running back a success), and quarterback competency (if QBs are good at play action, defenders may be less willing to commit to tackling the running back and give that split second to the running back).

With all these factors on a presently pass happy team, it is fairly tough to call Maroney a success or failure in his second year, just as it is silly to say Addai or Jones-Drew are successes. Experts give five years to judge the quality of a draft, so the same should be said of Maroney. His injury bug may go away and Addai and Jones-Drew may have short careers because of injuries next year. Play the equivalent of day trader based on short term success and you may look the fool when your stock tanks next year. Other than having happy feet and spending a little too much time on side to side running right now, I think Maroney will be as good if not beter than the alternatives in the draft down the line when he adjust to the NFL game. It is just a question of maturing.

 

[Ring 6]

Faulk and Sammy had and have about the same ypc. Sammy is a back up , Faulk is a third down back.

We could have gotten Maroneys production with a far lower draft choice. Maroneys ypc is not that impressive considering the O he plays in , with the passing attack we have.

Morris had half of his carries against 2 of the worst defenses in the NFL. Cleveland, and Cincy playing with 2 healthy LBs.

I think it is absolutely correct that this year we could have gotten most of Maroneys production from a lower round draft pick or lesser FA. Hell, lets cut the ypc down to 4.0. Thats only 39 less yards.
What you fail to understand is that Maroneys role in this offense is different than other RBs roles in theirs. Maroney has been given 118 carries. You seem to want 1200 yards, without recognizing that the offense he is playing in has been designed to throw the football. Joseph Addai has carried almost twice as many times as Maroney, and is averaging 4.2 yards per carry. That does not mean he has played better than Maroney, it means he has run the ball more times. Being given more carries does not make you a better player. Addai has been more productive. That is because his team has NEEDED him to be more productive.
You need to get over this idea that you can judge Maroney based on someone elses offenses design. Would you be happier if Maroney had 300 carries, 1300 yards, and we threw the ball 180 fewer times, and weren't owning the league with our passing game?

 

[danny88]

Morris had half of his carries against 2 of the worst defenses in the NFL. Cleveland, and Cincy playing with 2 healthy LBs.

I think it is absolutely correct that this year we could have gotten most of Maroneys production from a lower round draft pick or lesser FA. Hell, lets cut the ypc down to 4.0. Thats only 39 less yards.
What you fail to understand is that Maroneys role in this offense is different than other RBs roles in theirs. Maroney has been given 118 carries. You seem to want 1200 yards, without recognizing that the offense he is playing in has been designed to throw the football. Joseph Addai has carried almost twice as many times as Maroney, and is averaging 4.2 yards per carry. That does not mean he has played better than Maroney, it means he has run the ball more times. Being given more carries does not make you a better player. Addai has been more productive. That is because his team has NEEDED him to be more productive.
You need to get over this idea that you can judge Maroney based on someone elses offenses design. Would you be happier if Maroney had 300 carries, 1300 yards, and we threw the ball 180 fewer times, and weren't owning the league with our passing game?

My beef with maroney comes more from injury issues and his lack of ability to get those tough yards.

My concern lies with the fact that when the weather gets terrible he will not be able to get it done.

 

[Ring 6]

For every 3 guys you can point to that "turned it on" after 2 years, there are 10x that amount that NEVER did. To say that Addai would not have more carries in this offense is wrong. Do you honestly believe Addai would be sitting on the sideline when we get inside the red zone like Maroney does a lot? I say no. Forget the fact that Addai has more yards, TD's, and receptions than Maroney. Throw the stats out. What do your eyes tell you? Do you ever see Maroney make something out of nothing when the hole isn't there like Faulk did last night and like Addai does a lot? Do you ever see Maroney overpower a runner and get the extra yard? Hell, do you ever see Maroney do anything that says "this kid is special"? People that compare Maroney to Addai are kidding themsleves. Really.

Of course Addai would be getting the same number of carries as Maroney. Of course Kevin Faulk would be playing ahead of Addai in the passing game.
Tom Brady, with Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Donte Stallworth etc are BETTER than Joseph Addai.
Maroney work load is not a statement about Maroney, it is a statement about having the best passing game in NFL history.

And no, I do not see Addai doing anything that Maroney doesnt do, except that he does it more often.

 

[Ring 6]

Oh really? 70 percent of voters are either against drafting him or undecided. Good sign in week 12 of year two. A high first round pick who was highly coveted should have more confidence from his fans in his second year. A whopping 4 votes seperates the people against drafting him, and those who would still draft him.

Avg shelf life for a rb is 4 years. Half way there!

NO. Over 50% chose undecided, because whether or not you would redraft ANY player should be answered undecided in less than 2 years.
Of those making a choice 58% agree with the pick, which is actually very high, since in hindsight almost every player chosen could be 'traded' for a guy picked later who has been suprisingly good for a year and a half.

 

[National Sports Advisors]

Of course Addai would be getting the same number of carries as Maroney. Of course Kevin Faulk would be playing ahead of Addai in the passing game.
Tom Brady, with Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Donte Stallworth etc are BETTER than Joseph Addai.
Maroney work load is not a statement about Maroney, it is a statement about having the best passing game in NFL history.

And no, I do not see Addai doing anything that Maroney doesnt do, except that he does it more often.

Wow, I disagree 100%. I'll leave it at that. You are entitled to your opinion, but even Rodney Harrison said Addai is one of the top 5 backs they have faced the last couple years when he was on WEEI a few weeks back. I don't think ANYONE has said that about Maroney.

 

[danny88]

Of course Addai would be getting the same number of carries as Maroney. Of course Kevin Faulk would be playing ahead of Addai in the passing game.
Tom Brady, with Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Donte Stallworth etc are BETTER than Joseph Addai.
Maroney work load is not a statement about Maroney, it is a statement about having the best passing game in NFL history.

And no, I do not see Addai doing anything that Maroney doesnt do, except that he does it more often.

Are you saying maroney jukes guys out of there shoes at the los and makes runs out of nothing like Addai does?

 

[DaBruinz]

Yeah that and the fact 4 votes seperate those who would draft him and those who would take someone else if they could. Should be more difinitive then that. Considering this kid was a first round choice.

A lot of people are undecided 2 years in. The vast majority actually. If the shelf life of a avg back is 4 years , and the second year is 80 percent done , it should be more concrete then 70 percent undecided or against.

And the shelf life of a football player in general is only 3 years. So what is your point? That a WORTHLESS benchmark for you to be using.

Why should it be more definitive than that? Because you say so? You're a NOBODY.

A lot of people are "undecided" because they have the intelligence to know that you can't judge a player for 3 years, unless he's out of the league by that time. Yes, Belichick and Pioli have had their busts. From 2000 to 2005 (2006 and 2007 the jury is still out), the Pats had 17 players drafted. Of those 17 players, its my opinion that only J.R. Redmond, Brock Williams, Bethel Johnson, and Guss Scott have been busts. I had considered Marquise Hill a bust until I read that the O-line talked so highly of him and his play on the scout squad in helping them get ready for games. BB said much the same. Considering how young and raw he was, I don't feel I can classify him as a bust. But, with a success rate of 70%, I think the BB and Pioli have earned the right to say that it takes 3 years to fully evaluate a player.

 

[National Sports Advisors]

Yeah that and the fact 4 votes seperate those who would draft him and those who would take someone else if they could. Should be more difinitive then that. Considering this kid was a first round choice.

A lot of people are undecided 2 years in. The vast majority actually. If the shelf life of a avg back is 4 years , and the second year is 80 percent done , it should be more concrete then 70 percent undecided or against.[/quote}

And the shelf life of a football player in general is only 3 years. So what is your point? That a WORTHLESS benchmark for you to be using.

Why should it be more definitive than that? Because you say so? You're a NOBODY.

A lot of people are "undecided" because they have the intelligence to know that you can't judge a player for 3 years, unless he's out of the league by that time. Yes, Belichick and Pioli have had their busts. From 2000 to 2005 (2006 and 2007 the jury is still out), the Pats had 17 players drafted. Of those 17 players, its my opinion that only J.R. Redmond, Brock Williams, Bethel Johnson, and Guss Scott have been busts. I had considered Marquise Hill a bust until I read that the O-line talked so highly of him and his play on the scout squad in helping them get ready for games. BB said much the same. Considering how young and raw he was, I don't feel I can classify him as a bust. But, with a success rate of 70%, I think the BB and Pioli have earned the right to say that it takes 3 years to fully evaluate a player.

Cedric Cobbs says hello. I forgot about Jr Redmond. It looks like with Maroney, Cobbs, and Redmond we definitely NEED WORK in accessing running back talent. Good lord what a trio of stinkers!

 

[Ring 6]

My beef with maroney comes more from injury issues and his lack of ability to get those tough yards.

My concern lies with the fact that when the weather gets terrible he will not be able to get it done.

It is idiotic to have a 'beef' with an NFL RB who has sustained 2 injuries in 2 years. Curtis Martin was injured in his 2nd and 3rd years, and in his 3rd, he missed the end of the season and playoffs. What he injury prone? Adrain Peterson has 1 injury in 1 year, after numerous ones in college. Do you have a 'beef' with his injury issues? Corey Dillon spent most of 2005 injured, did you have a 'beef' with him? Addai has missed games twice due to injuries. Tiki Barber was injured a ton early in his career, and the list goes on and on.
Running back is a position where injuries are prevelant. Being injured 2 times in 2 years indicates absolutely nothing.

I'm not sure where you come up with the idea that Maroney cannot get 'tough yards'. When has he failed to get 'tough yards'? I watched him last night pound into defenders and drive forward consistently. What are you asking for, him to run over a 330 lb DL then go 80? You'll be waiting a long time ot see anyone do that.

 

[DaBruinz]

I have said over and over Maroney is talented. You guys ignore anything positive I say.

Maroney to me is a avg NFL running back , who is not worth his high first round draft choice. He is also injury proned.

Hmm.. Injury prone?

Please tell me what exercises one does to keep your ribs from being dislocated by a brutal hit from a 275 lbs lineman?

Sorry, but his ribs/shoulder injury falls into the catastrophic nature and, to the best of my knowledge, there are no exercises one can do. Just like there are no exercises one can do to prevent your ACL from tearing when your knee gets dislocated.

Please provide the link where you claimed that Maroney was a talented back. Because everyone must have missed it.

 

[Ring 6]

Are you saying maroney jukes guys out of there shoes at the los and makes runs out of nothing like Addai does?

Right, Addai 'jukes people out of their shoes at the los and makes runs out of nothing'.
This is the problem with your argument. Anyone who isnt named Maroney is superhuman and you think they do things that they do not do.
Addai averages 4.2 yards per carry. Wouldn't juking people out of their shoes, and making runs out of nothing, which apparently you think Maroney doesnt do, gain him more than -0.1 yard per carry?

 

[VJCPatriot]

The flaw in this reasoning is that Addai and the Colts DO have a pass happy offense. With a QB like Peyton Manning and weapons like Reggie Wayne, Marvin Harrison, Dallas Clark, the Colts ARE the Original Pass Happy O. And Addai still PRODUCES in the framework of that offense.

The fact is that the Colts trust Addai more, therefore they include him more in his gameplans. If Addai was a scrub, he would not be given the ball over 200 times and trusted to pass protect for Manning. It's not simply more opportunity producing the numbers for Addai, to this point he has simply been BETTER than Maroney. He produced over 1,000 yards as a rookie and already has over 900 yards through 12 games in his second season. Even as a Patriot fan, if I take off the homer tinted lenses, I can see that he's better.

The reason Maroney has not been involved more in the Patriots gameplan is pretty easy to see with simple observation: he is not a good pass catcher out of the backfield, his pass protection needs work, and he is not a tough interior runner. Why does Maroney get less touches? Could it be that the Patriots coaching staff simply doesn't TRUST him to carry the load yet? It seems so obvious when somebody finally says it, doesn't it?

The fact that Maroney gets injured frequently has probably hampered his development, sure. But you can't "hang your hat" on the injury excuse as a universal excuse for ALL of Maroney's deficiencies. Right now he looks like a #2 RB at best. He did contribute some in the passing game vs the Ravens, so who knows, maybe he can improve that aspect of his game. But right now, Maroney (#21 2006) has a LONG way to go before he can be compared with the likes of Joseph Addai (#30 2006) or a back like Willis McGahee (#23 2003) who showed us last night what a REAL #1 RB can do.

What you fail to understand is that Maroneys role in this offense is different than other RBs roles in theirs. Maroney has been given 118 carries. You seem to want 1200 yards, without recognizing that the offense he is playing in has been designed to throw the football. Joseph Addai has carried almost twice as many times as Maroney, and is averaging 4.2 yards per carry. That does not mean he has played better than Maroney, it means he has run the ball more times. Being given more carries does not make you a better player. Addai has been more productive. That is because his team has NEEDED him to be more productive.

 

[Ring 6]

Wow, I disagree 100%. I'll leave it at that. You are entitled to your opinion, but even Rodney Harrison said Addai is one of the top 5 backs they have faced the last couple years when he was on WEEI a few weeks back. I don't think ANYONE has said that about Maroney.

Great standard. We are going to judge the value of other players by what the team that overcomplements every opponent they face says in interviews. Sweet plan.

 

[ATippett56]

Ever wonder what could have been in 2004?

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?season=2004

128 Cedric Cobbs RB Arkansas New England Patriots
154 Michael Turner RB Northern Illinois San Diego Chargers

Would you rather have Michael Turner or Laurence Maroney?

 

[DaBruinz]

Oh really? 70 percent of voters are either against drafting him or undecided. Good sign in week 12 of year two. A high first round pick who was highly coveted should have more confidence from his fans in his second year. A whopping 4 votes seperates the people against drafting him, and those who would still draft him.

Avg shelf life for a rb is 4 years. Half way there!

I knew you'd be an imbecile regarding the numbers. And I knew your intentions were to just beat your chest and try and say "I TOLD YOU SO".

Maroney was NOT a high 1st round pick. 21 falls into the LOWER half of the 1st round. There is another blatant over-statement on your part. As is the statement that he was highly coveted. Yes, by some he was. But not by all.

31 of 60 voters are UNDECIDED because they clearly have more intelligence than you do and don't feel they can make a judgement yet. And it has NOTHING to do with confidence in Maroney. It has to do with the idea that they haven't seen enough of him yet to be able to make an educated decision. I know that is a foreign concept for you, but I am hoping that you will understand at some point.

 

[Ring 6]

The flaw in this reasoning is that Addai and the Colts DO have a pass happy offense. With a QB like Peyton Manning and weapons like Reggie Wayne, Marvin Harrison, Dallas Clark, the Colts ARE the Original Pass Happy O. And Addai still PRODUCES in the framework of that offense.

The fact is that the Colts trust Addai more, therefore they include him more in his gameplans. If Addai was a scrub, he would not be given the ball over 200 times and trusted to pass protect for Manning. It's not simply more opportunity producing the numbers for Addai, to this point he has simply been BETTER than Maroney. He produced over 1,000 yards as a rookie and already has over 900 yards through 12 games in his second season. Even as a Patriot fan, if I take off the homer tinted lenses, I can see that he's better.

The reason Maroney has not been involved more in the Patriots gameplan is pretty easy to see with simple observation: he is not a good pass catcher out of the backfield, his pass protection needs work, and he is not a tough interior runner. Why does Maroney get less touches? Could it be that the Patriots coaching staff simply doesn't TRUST him to carry the load yet? It seems so obvious when somebody finally says it, doesn't it?

The fact that Maroney gets injured frequently has probably hampered his development, sure. But you can't "hang your hat" on the injury excuse as a universal excuse for ALL of Maroney's deficiencies. Right now he looks like a #2 RB at best. He did contribute some in the passing game vs the Ravens, so who knows, maybe he can improve that aspect of his game. But right now, Maroney has a LONG way to go before he can be compared with the likes of Joseph Addai or a back like Willis McGahee who showed us last night what a REAL #1 RB can do.

The Colts have not been even close to as productive in the passing game, or in scoring points as the Patriots.
The only difference in Maroney, Addai, and McGahee are the amount of rushes.
Its ludicrous to say the Patriots do not trust Maroney 'to carry the load'. If they trust him to be the #1 RB, they trust him to carry 'the load' if they gameplan to run the ball a lot.

 

[Ring 6]

Ever wonder what could have been in 2004?

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?season=2004

128 Cedric Cobbs RB Arkansas New England Patriots
154 Michael Turner RB Northern Illinois San Diego Chargers

Would you rather have Michael Turner or Laurence Maroney?

You are kidding right?

 

[Ishdul]

Ryans is too small to play in the Pats 3-4 defense.

He's listed at 239 so it's not like he's Donnie Edwards size, and I think you're putting way too much emphasis on pure size if you think Ryans wouldn't help.

 

[IcyPatriot]

20 players have scored TD's this year on this team. We don't feature players and i doubt we ever will under Belichick. Maroney will never be a top 5 RB under Belichick especially with Brady as our QB.

Now we were okay with that when we drafted Maroney. Thinking he would average around 15 carries a game ... so when did the idea change on this? Except for his injuries ... he is doing just what he was drafted for. Somewhere around 10-15 carries a game and @3-5 catches a game.