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Let’s talk about UFOs.

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Kontradiction

Dr. P-ussy
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Apparently, these things cruise around our ships and Navy fighters encounter them all the time. The New York Times released an article a few years ago after the DoD declassified an encounter back in 2004 in which Navy fighter pilots scrambled to intercept a UFO in the area and couldn’t get a lock on it.


Most encounters describe the objects having maneuverability that would be physically impossible to replicate with the technology we have available to us today. They move at speeds in which the G-Force would shred anything we have and kill everyone aboard. They’ve been seen descending from 50,000 and into the ocean in less than a second. I’d recommend watching the documentary The Phenomenon,” on Prime. It goes over Project Blue Book and all of the familiar encounters, such as Roswell. It’s told from a military and government perspective and has guests like Andrew Mellon.

Some of the more intriguing/terrifying encounters they document are related to nuclear weapons sites and the encounter that school children had with a landed UFO in Zimbabwe in 1994. In the latter case, a group of children encounter a landed craft and a life form that they describe as tiny and black who communicates with them via telepathy and warns them of our technological advances. There was a follow-up documentary years later (the children now grown) whose stories and drawings didn’t change at all.


Then there’s the stories of UFOs hovering over nuclear launch sites and either completely deactivating them or, in the Soviet Union’s case, initiating a snap count for launch before deactivating the launch sequence.




Then, you have the most recently released sighting (to my knowledge) from the USS Omaha in 2019 in which an object, caught on infrared at night, descended rapidly and moved across the water before splashing down and submerging. A subsequent dive and search of the area found nothing.


So, what do we think? Are we sharing the planet with these things? It would make sense if they have a base of some kind deep below sea level where we cannot follow or see them. Do you think these could be drones or rovers of some kind from beings from another planet scoping out Earth? Kind of in the same vein with what we are doing on Mars? Or do you think these objects are man-made objects from either us, Russia, or China?

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tom444

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
But these craft don’t do what we can do.
Sure they do. They're built and they fly. That's what we do. We build things we can fly. The chances that some kind of living thing from another planet would do, want to do, what we do is virtually nonexistent. They would be a completely different kind of living thing.
 

Kontradiction

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Sure they do. They're built and they fly. That's what we do. We build things we can fly. The chances that some kind of living thing from another planet would do, want to do, what we do is virtually nonexistent. They would be a completely different kind of living thing.
They fly without any sort of propulsion system, exhaust, don’t break the sound barrier, have been recorded traveling well above 3,000 MPH, maneuver randomly in different kinds of shapes, and sustain speeds where the G-Force would tear apart even the strongest metals found here on Earth. The pilots that have scrambled to intercept them have reported that they’ve scrambled the on-board computers to prevent them from getting a lock and maintained a constant tactical advantage. They cruise through our airspace constantly (including over the White House). If another country has this kind of technology, they’re the head honcho. There’s no reason why they haven’t attacked us yet.
 

tom444

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
They fly without any sort of propulsion system, exhaust, don’t break the sound barrier, have been recorded traveling well above 3,000 MPH, maneuver randomly in different kinds of shapes, and sustain speeds where the G-Force would tear apart even the strongest metals found here on Earth. The pilots that have scrambled to intercept them have reported that they’ve scrambled the on-board computers to prevent them from getting a lock and maintained a constant tactical advantage. They cruise through our airspace constantly (including over the White House). If another country has this kind of technology, they’re the head honcho. There’s no reason why they haven’t attacked us yet.

They fly over the White House huh? Haha. Can you get any more human than that?
 

Kontradiction

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They fly over the White House huh? Haha. Can you get any more human than that?
So who has this technology, in your view? Something made to withstand that much G-Force and not make a sound as it breaks the sound barrier? Why do you think they haven’t attacked us yet since there’s no realistic way we can stop them?
 

tom444

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
So who has this technology, in your view? Something made to withstand that much G-Force and not make a sound as it breaks the sound barrier? Why do you think they haven’t attacked us yet since there’s no realistic way we can stop them?
First of all, I'm not convinced that they, those that are actually built and are not just an unexplained phenomenon, do what some claim they can do. Second, for example, how long was the U-2 program kept secret?
 

Scotty

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
I dont mean this to disrespect the thread but why do we see most of the film and photos through some of the worst lenses ever. A lot of the programmes I have watched a significant number show fuzzy lights and no clear pictures. Its only the recent military film releases where we seem to get a clearer picture of these objects whatever they are. As far as the content ?.......someone , somewhere knows more than what has been released to the public. Dont think these sightings have been explained at all.
 

Kontradiction

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First of all, I'm not convinced that they, those that are actually built and are not just an unexplained phenomenon, do what some claim they can do. Second, for example, how long was the U-2 program kept secret?
Listen to Underwood’s interview about its maneuverability. Listen to the pilots amazed at the speed they’re traveling at in the Nimitz video. Then there are interviews with Fravor and Dietrich.



 

Kontradiction

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I dont mean this to disrespect the thread but why do we see most of the film and photos through some of the worst lenses ever. A lot of the programmes I have watched a significant number show fuzzy lights and no clear pictures. Its only the recent military film releases where we seem to get a clearer picture of these objects whatever they are. As far as the content ?.......someone , somewhere knows more than what has been released to the public. Dont think these sightings have been explained at all.
Good question. Unfortunately, a lot of fakes out there have contributed to cognitive dissonance regarding this topic. The majority of the military videos are using infrared.
 

Pape

In the Starting Line-Up
I dont mean this to disrespect the thread but why do we see most of the film and photos through some of the worst lenses ever. A lot of the programmes I have watched a significant number show fuzzy lights and no clear pictures. Its only the recent military film releases where we seem to get a clearer picture of these objects whatever they are. As far as the content ?.......someone , somewhere knows more than what has been released to the public. Dont think these sightings have been explained at all.
most of the images are captures by the sensor pod, usually a night. so its not a direct visual image captured by a lens. Its an image captured and processed via the infrared imaging system.

as for ufo's they are exactly that objects that fly that have no known classification...

I would add the following
They fly without any sort of propulsion system - More like no kind of propulsion system you can discern from poor quality videos

exhaust - that you can discern from a poor quality video

don’t break the sound barrier - if they travel above 767 mph, they are breaking the sound barrier, whether or not the sonic boom is captured... maybe design characteristics can help mitigate the sonic boom etc? i dunno

have been recorded traveling well above 3,000 MPH - The SR-71 can travel at 3500 mph, so conceivably within our engineering capabilities

maneuver randomly in different kinds of shapes - i dunno, depends on the type of propulsion system, maneuvering thrusters - all that star trekkie stuff i would guess and don't rightly know about

and sustain speeds where the G-Force would tear apart even the strongest metals found here on Earth. - who said its metals? metals are actually brittle in comparison to other materials... so composite materials would be my guess, one that would provide the tensile strength of metal combined with the flexibility of another material needed to withstand such forces... advanced avionics exist and survive in ballistic missels, launched and travel at high rates of speed... no idea what the gforces they sustain upon launch etc are though. but its not not inconceivable that this issue could be figured out thru engineering


Simply put, just because you don't know the technology exists, doesn't mean the technology to do these things doesn't exist... does anyone actually think groom lake / area 51 is the only darpa research facility the us government has operating? the skunk works operated out of boeing iirc... there has to be others... A51 is too well known, too open of a target for there not to be
 

Kdo5

Pro Bowl Player
Apparently, these things cruise around our ships and Navy fighters encounter them all the time. The New York Times released an article a few years ago after the DoD declassified an encounter back in 2004 in which Navy fighter pilots scrambled to intercept a UFO in the area and couldn’t get a lock on it.


Most encounters describe the objects having maneuverability that would be physically impossible to replicate with the technology we have available to us today. They move at speeds in which the G-Force would shred anything we have and kill everyone aboard. They’ve been seen descending from 50,000 and into the ocean in less than a second. I’d recommend watching the documentary The Phenomenon,” on Prime. It goes over Project Blue Book and all of the familiar encounters, such as Roswell. It’s told from a military and government perspective and has guests like Andrew Mellon.

Some of the more intriguing/terrifying encounters they document are related to nuclear weapons sites and the encounter that school children had with a landed UFO in Zimbabwe in 1994. In the latter case, a group of children encounter a landed craft and a life form that they describe as tiny and black who communicates with them via telepathy and warns them of our technological advances. There was a follow-up documentary years later (the children now grown) whose stories and drawings didn’t change at all.


Then there’s the stories of UFOs hovering over nuclear launch sites and either completely deactivating them or, in the Soviet Union’s case, initiating a snap count for launch before deactivating the launch sequence.




Then, you have the most recently released sighting (to my knowledge) from the USS Omaha in 2019 in which an object, caught on infrared at night, descended rapidly and moved across the water before splashing down and submerging. A subsequent dive and search of the area found nothing.


So, what do we think? Are we sharing the planet with these things? It would make sense if they have a base of some kind deep below sea level where we cannot follow or see them. Do you think these could be drones or rovers of some kind from beings from another planet scoping out Earth? Kind of in the same vein with what we are doing on Mars? Or do you think these objects are man-made objects from either us, Russia, or China?

View attachment 33350
I remember my dad once telling me about an acquaintance of his through work who had some level of security clearance in government who met a small unidentified creature that seemed to have an ability to communicate with telepathy. My dad really didn’t have incentive to lie but obviously it could be total ********. I thought it was interesting you mentioned the telepathy for that reason though.

I think there is a very real possibility of extra-terrestrials or at least beings on this planet that we have had very minimal contact with. It would make most sense that such beings dwell deep under the ocean. 80% of the Earth’s oceans are unexplored. And as those videos showed the UFOs just seem to dive right down into the ocean.
 

tom444

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
Listen to Underwood’s interview about its maneuverability. Listen to the pilots amazed at the speed they’re traveling at in the Nimitz video. Then there are interviews with Fravor and Dietrich.



Well, I won't pretend to be able to explain it, and I take the pilots at their word.
 
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betterthanthealternative

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Thorough, logical arguments can be made at both ends of this: these are clearly not from around here, and these are earthly and just beyond our scientific understanding at this point.

Fun.
 

Kontradiction

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The story of Betty and Barney Hill. Discovered pretty much by accident when she went under hypnosis for sleep deprivation after a close encounter.


According to a variety of reports given by the Hills, the alleged UFO sighting happened on September 19, 1961, around 10:30 p.m. The Hills were driving back to Portsmouth from a vacation in Niagara Falls and Montreal. Just south of Lancaster, New Hampshire, Betty claimed to have observed a bright point of light in the sky that moved from below the moon and the planet Jupiter, upward to the west of the moon. While Barney navigated U.S. Route 3, Betty reasoned that she was observing a falling star, only it moved upward.[7] Since it moved erratically and grew bigger and brighter, Betty urged Barney to stop the car for a closer look, as well as to walk their dog, Delsey. Barney stopped at a scenic picnic area just south of Twin Mountain.[8]

Betty, looking through binoculars, observed an "odd-shaped" craft flashing multi-colored lights travel across the face of the Moon.[9] Because her sister had several years earlier said she had seen a flying saucer, Betty thought it might be what she was observing. Through binoculars, Barney observed what he reasoned was a commercial airliner traveling toward Vermont on its way to Montreal. However, he soon changed his mind, because without looking as if it had turned, the craft rapidly descended in his direction. This observation caused Barney to realize, "this object that was a plane was not a plane."[10] They quickly returned to the car and drove toward Franconia Notch, a narrow, mountainous stretch of the road.

The Hills claimed that they continued driving on the isolated road, moving very slowly through Franconia Notch in order to observe the object as it came even closer. At one point, the object passed above a restaurant and signal tower on top of Cannon Mountain and came out near the Old Man of the Mountain. Betty testified that it was at least one and a half times the length of the granite cliff profile, which was 40 feet (12 m) long, and that it seemed to be rotating. The couple watched as the silent, illuminated craft moved erratically and bounced back and forth in the night sky.[11]

Approximately one mile south of Indian Head, they said, the object rapidly descended toward their vehicle, causing Barney to stop in the middle of the highway. The huge, silent craft hovered approximately 80–100 feet (24–30 m) above the Hills' 1957 Chevrolet Bel Air and filled the entire field of view in the windshield. It reminded Barney of a huge pancake. Carrying his pistol in his pocket, he stepped away from the vehicle and moved closer to the object. Using the binoculars, Barney claimed to have seen about 8 to 11 humanoid figures, who were peering out of the craft's windows, seeming to look at him. In unison, all but one figure moved to what appeared to be a panel on the rear wall of the hallway that encircled the front portion of the craft. The one remaining figure continued to look at Barney and communicated a message telling him to "stay where you are and keep looking." Barney had a recollection of observing the humanoid forms wearing glossy black uniforms and black caps. Red lights on what appeared to be bat-wing fins began to telescope out of the sides of the craft, and a long structure descended from the bottom of the craft. The silent craft approached to what Barney estimated was within 50–80 feet (15–24 m) overhead and 300 feet (91 m) away from him. On October 21, 1961, Barney reported to National Investigations Committee On Aerial Phenomena (NICAP) investigator Walter Webb that the "beings were somehow not human."[12]

Barney "tore" the binoculars away from his eyes and ran back to his car. In a near-hysterical state, he told Betty, "They're going to capture us!"[13]He saw the object again shift its location to directly above the vehicle. He drove away at high speed, telling Betty to look for the object. She rolled down the window and looked up. Almost immediately, the Hills heard a rhythmic series of beeping or buzzing sounds, which they said seemed to bounce off the trunk of their vehicle. The car vibrated and a tingling sensation passed through the Hills' bodies. The Hills said that then they experienced the onset of an altered state of consciousness that left their minds dulled. A second series of beeping or buzzing sounds returned the couple to full consciousness. They found that they had traveled nearly 35 miles (56 km) south, but had only vague, spotty memories of this section of road. They recalled making a sudden, sharp unplanned turn, encountering a roadblock, and observing a fiery orb in the road.

Arriving home at about dawn, the Hills assert that they had some odd sensations and impulses they could not readily explain: Betty insisted their luggage be kept near the back door rather than in the main part of the house. Their watches would never work again. Barney said that the leather strap for the binoculars was torn, though he could not recall it tearing. The toes of his best dress shoes were scraped. Barney says he was compelled to examine his genitals in the bathroom, though he found nothing unusual. They took long showers to remove possible contamination and each drew a picture of what they had observed.[14]

Perplexed, the Hills say they tried to reconstruct the chronology of events as they witnessed the UFO and drove home. But immediately after they heard the buzzing sounds, their memories became incomplete and fragmented.[15] After sleeping for a few hours, Betty awoke and placed the shoes and clothing she had worn during the drive into her closet, observing that the dress was torn at the hem, zipper and lining. Later, when she retrieved the items from her closet, she noted a pinkish powder on her dress. She hung the dress on her clothesline and the pink powder blew away. But the dress was irreparably damaged. She threw it away, but then changed her mind, retrieved the dress and hung it in her closet. Over the years, five laboratories have conducted chemical and forensic analyses on the dress.[16]

There were shiny, concentric circles on their car's trunk that had not been there the previous day. Betty and Barney experimented with a compass, noting that when they moved it close to the spots, the needle would whirl rapidly. But when they moved it a few inches away from the shiny spots, it would drop down.[17]

Ten days after the alleged UFO encounter, Betty began having a series of vivid dreams. They continued for five successive nights. Never in her memory had she recalled dreams in such detail and intensity. But they stopped abruptly after five nights and never returned. They occupied her thoughts during the day. When she mentioned them to Barney, he was sympathetic, but not too concerned, and the matter was dropped. Betty did not mention them to Barney again.[20]

In November 1961 Betty began writing down the details of her dreams. In one dream, she and Barney encountered a roadblock and men who surrounded their car. She lost consciousness but struggled to regain it. Then she realized that she was being forced by two small men to walk in a forest at night, and of seeing Barney walking behind her, though when she called to him, he seemed to be in a trance or sleepwalking. The men stood about five feet to five feet four inches tall and wore matching blue uniforms, with caps similar to those worn by military cadets. They appeared nearly human, with black hair, dark eyes, prominent noses and bluish lips. Their skin was a greyish colour.[21]

In the dreams, Betty, Barney, and the men walked up a ramp into a disc-shaped craft of metallic appearance. Once inside, Barney and Betty were separated. She protested and was told by a man she called "the leader" that if she and Barney were examined together, it would take much longer to conduct the exams. She and Barney were then taken to separate rooms.

Betty then dreamt that a new man, similar to the others, entered to conduct her exam with the leader. Betty called this new man "the examiner" and said he had a pleasant, calm manner. Though the leader and the examiner spoke to her in English, the examiner's command of the language seemed imperfect and she had difficulty understanding him.

The examiner told Betty that he would conduct a few tests to note the differences between humans and the craft's occupants. He seated her on a chair, and a bright light was shone on her. The man cut off a lock of Betty's hair. He examined her eyes, ears, mouth, teeth, throat and hands. He saved trimmings from her fingernails. After examining her legs and feet, the man used a dull knife, similar to a letter opener, to scrape some of her skin onto what resembled cellophane. He then tested her nervous system and he thrust the needle into her navel, which caused Betty agonizing pain, whereupon the leader waved his hand in front of her eyes and the pain vanished.

The examiner left the room and Betty engaged in conversation with the "leader." She picked up a book with rows of strange symbols that the "leader" said she could take home with her. She also asked from where he came, and he pulled down an instructional map dotted with stars.

In Betty's dream account, the men began escorting the Hills from the ship when a disagreement broke out. The leader then informed Betty that she couldn't keep the book, stating that they had decided that the other men did not want her to even remember the encounter. Betty insisted that no matter what they did to her memory, she would one day recall the events.

She and Barney were taken to their car, where the leader suggested that they wait to watch the craft's departure. They did so, then resumed their drive.[22]
 

Kontradiction

Dr. P-ussy
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Continued…


Simon began hypnotizing the Hills on January 4, 1964. He hypnotized Betty and Barney several times each, and the sessions lasted until June 6, 1964. Simon conducted the sessions on Barney and Betty separately, so they could not overhear one another's recollections. At the end of each session, he reinstated amnesia.[citation needed]

Barney's sessions​

Simon hypnotized Barney first. His recall of witnessing non-human figures was quite emotional, punctuated with expressions of fear, emotional outbursts and incredulity. Barney said that, due to his fear, he kept his eyes closed for much of the abduction and physical examination. Based on these early responses, Simon told Barney that he would not remember the hypnosis sessions until he was certain he could remember them without being further traumatized.

Under hypnosis (as was consistent with his conscious recall), Barney reported that the binocular strap had broken when he ran from the UFO back to his car. He recalled driving the car away from the UFO, but that afterwards he felt irresistibly compelled to pull off the road and drive into the woods. He eventually sighted six men standing in the dirt road. The car stalled and three of the men approached the car. They told Barney not to fear them. He was still anxious, however, and he reported that the leader told Barney to close his eyes. While hypnotized, Barney said, "I felt like the eyes had pushed into my eyes."[25]

Barney described the beings as generally similar to Betty's hypnotic (not dream) recollection. The beings often stared into his eyes, said Barney, with a terrifying, mesmerizing effect. Under hypnosis, Barney said things like, "Oh, those eyes. They're there in my brain" (from his first hypnosis session) and "I was told to close my eyes because I saw two eyes coming close to mine, and I felt like the eyes had pushed into my eyes" (from his second hypnosis session) and "All I see are these eyes…. I'm not even afraid that they're not connected to a body. They're just there. They're just up close to me, pressing against my eyes."[26]

Barney related that he and Betty were taken onto the disc-shaped craft, where they were separated. He was escorted to a room by three of the men and told to lie on a small rectangular exam table. Unlike Betty, Barney's narrative of the exam was less detailed, as he continued to keep his eyes closed for most of the exam. A cup-like device was placed over his genitals. He did not experience an orgasm, though Barney thought that a sperm sample had been taken. The men scraped his skin and peered in his ears and mouth. A thin tube or cylinder was inserted into his anus and quickly removed. Someone felt his spine and seemed to be counting his vertebrae.

Betty reported a conversation with the "leader" that she understood in English. Barney said that he heard them speaking in a mumbling language he did not understand, yet he also understood them in English. Betty also mentioned this detail. The few times they communicated with him, Barney said it seemed to be "thought transference;" at that time, he was unfamiliar with the word "telepathy."[27] Both Betty and Barney stated that they hadn't observed the beings' mouths moving when they communicated in English with them.

He recalled being escorted from the ship and taken to his car. In a daze, he watched the ship leave. Barney remembered a light appearing on the road, and he said, "Oh no, not again." He recalled Betty's speculation that the light might have been the moon, though the moon had set several hours earlier. He also stated that he attempted to produce the code-like buzzing sounds which seemed to strike the car's trunk a second time by driving from side to side and stopping and starting the vehicle. His attempt was unsuccessful.

Betty's sessions
Under hypnosis, Betty's account was similar to her five dreams about the UFO abduction, with some notable differences, mainly pertaining to her capture and release. Also, the technology on the craft was different, the short men differed significantly in physical appearance and the sequential order of the abduction differed. Barney's and Betty's memories in hypnotic regression were, however, consistent with one another.[28]

Betty exhibited considerable emotional distress when recounting her capture and examination; Simon ended one session early because tears were flowing down her cheeks.

Simon gave Betty the post-hypnotic suggestion that she could sketch a copy of the "star map" that she later described as a three-dimensional projection similar to a hologram. Though the map she saw had many stars, she drew only those that stood out in her memory. Her map consisted of twelve prominent stars connected by lines and three lesser ones that formed a distinctive triangle (see below). She said she was told the stars connected by solid lines formed "trade routes," whereas dashed lines were to less-traveled stars.

Simon's conclusions​

After the hypnosis sessions, Simon speculated that Barney's recollection of the UFO encounter was possibly a fantasy inspired by Betty's dreams. Simon thought it was the most reasonable and consistent explanation. Barney rejected this idea, noting that while their memories were consistent in some regards, there were also portions of both their narratives that were unique to each. Barney was now ready to accept that they had been abducted by the occupants of a UFO, though he never embraced it as fully as Betty did.

Though the Hills and Simon disagreed about the cause of their distress, they all concurred that the hypnosis sessions were effective; the Hills were no longer tormented by abduction anxiety.

When the series of hypnosis sessions were complete, Simon wrote an article about the Hills for the journal Psychiatric Opinion, explaining his conclusion that the case was a singular psychological aberration.[29]

This is the most interesting part to me, aside from the fact that they probed Barney’s anus. I’ve been searching for a video of that online but, sadly, I cannot find it.

In 1968 Marjorie Fish of Oak Harbor, Ohio, read Fuller's book, Interrupted Journey. Fish was an elementary school teacher and amateur astronomer. Intrigued by the "star map," Fish wondered if it might be "deciphered" to determine which star system the UFO came from. Assuming that one of the fifteen stars on the map must represent Earth's Sun, Fish constructed a three-dimensional model of nearby Sun-like stars (i.e., stars deemed to have characteristics that could support life such as that found on Earth) using thread and beads, basing stellar distances on those published in the 1969 Gliese Star Catalogue. Studying thousands of vantage points over several years, the only one that seemed to match the Hill map was from the viewpoint of the double star system of Zeta Reticuli.

Fish sent her analysis to Webb. Agreeing with her conclusions, Webb sent the map to Terence Dickinson, editor of the magazine Astronomy. Dickinson did not endorse Fish and Webb's conclusions, but for the first time in the journal's history, Astronomy invited comments and debate on a UFO report, starting with an opening article in the December 1974 issue. For about a year afterward, the opinions page of Astronomycarried arguments for and against Fish's star map. Notable was an argument made by Carl Sagan and Steven Soter,[33] arguing that the "star map" was little more than a randomalignment of chance points. In an episode of "Cosmos" in 1980, Sagan demonstrated that without the lines drawn in the maps, the Hill map bore no resemblance to the real-life map. In contrast, those more favorable to the map, such as David Saunders, a statistician who had been on the Condon UFO study, argued that unusual alignment of key Sun-like stars in a plane centered around Zeta Reticuli (first described by Fish) was statistically improbable to have happened by chance from a random group of stars in our immediate neighborhood.[34][35]

In the early 1990s the European Hipparcos ("high precision parallax collecting satellite") mission, which measured the distances to more than a hundred thousand stars around the Sun more accurately than ever before, showed that some of the stars in Fish's interpretation of the map were in fact much further away than previously thought. Other research revealed that some stars counted by Fish as likely to host life would have had to be excluded by her own criteria, while some other stars which had been discounted by Fish have been recognised as potential abodes for life. Results such as these led Fish herself to reject her hypothesis in a public statement.[36]
 

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