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Lamar Jackson & NFL QB Rankings

2022 Patriots Season:
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Mon
Dec 12th
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Wozzy

In the Starting Line-Up
Thats pretty much it. He certainly has improved in some areas as he has acquired experience but in terms of consistently delivering pass after pass in a basic pro-style offense...not really.

For example, if you look at BAL from 2019-2021 in 11 (3WR/1TE) personnel he passed more in 2021 but his effectiveness was pretty much the same which was not all that overly efficient.

Other more prolific passing teams fared much better. Even Mac had a 100Qb rating in 11 personnel in 2021 whereas LJ was 86 rating with twice as few attempts as Mac.

Can he improve? Sure. It's not like he doesn't know what he doing out there. He can read defenses, change plays, look off DBs, etc. But what needs to happen for him to get to Josh Allen's level? Maybe better WRs are the answer. Once he got Diggs he took off. Maybe he needs to trust what he sees more out there and have more patience consistently. Maybe it's fundamentals (which he has worked on)? Not sure.
Nah, look at Josh Allen's stats (QB Rating) year by year. He got better in year two, he got better in year three when he got Diggs. The leap in QB Rating was almost equal from year two to year three.

Jackson?

Year QBR
2018 84.5
2019 113.3
2020 99.3
2021 87.0

In 2021 career low TD's, career high INT's, career high sacks, career low yards from scrimmage as a starter... he's become worse as a passer as teams got film on him.

Now he's having another career year... what's changed? Oh yeah, he's playing for a new contract. Fool's gold...

Can he improve? Sure... will he? Can he improve from his baseline enough to pass well in the pocket against playoff defenses? I seriously doubt it, but I was wrong about Josh Allen.
 

RobertWeathers

Author of the Port Huron Statement
Nah, look at Josh Allen's stats (QB Rating) year by year. He got better in year two, he got better in year three when he got Diggs. The leap in QB Rating was almost equal from year two to year three.

Jackson?

Year QBR
2018 84.5
2019 113.3
2020 99.3
2021 87.0

In 2021 career low TD's, career high INT's, career high sacks, career low yards from scrimmage as a starter... he's become worse as a passer as teams got film on him.

Now he's having another career year... what's changed? Oh yeah, he's playing for a new contract. Fool's gold...

Can he improve? Sure... will he? Can he improve from his baseline enough to pass well in the pocket against playoff defenses? I seriously doubt it, but I was wrong about Josh Allen.
I agree on Allen. He improved Y1 to Y2. Just look at his advanced metrics and the other link I posted earlier this am.


My point was last year LJ had a 1000yd receiver and a 1300yd TE but Allen's #'s skyrocketed because he improved at a more accelerated pace.

Before the year is out LJ will miss Marquis Brown more than the Ratbirds realize.
 

Wozzy

In the Starting Line-Up
I agree on Allen. He improved Y1 to Y2. Just look at his advanced metrics and the other link I posted earlier this am.

My point was last year LJ had a 1000yd receiver and a 1300yd TE but Allen's #'s skyrocketed because he improved at a more accelerated pace.

Before the year is out LJ will miss Marquis Brown more than the Ratbirds realize.
I think LJ has had good weapons over his career. They changed their entire offense after his rookie year, watching him flounder as a rookie in a traditional dropback offense designed for Flacco was obviously an eye opener for their coaches.

I like the Baltimore WR's a lot, Bateman and Duvernay are really talented. The problem with them is the same problem they had when Hollywood was still on the team... Lamar looks most efficient throwing to 6'5" Mark Andrews because he's as big as a house and LJ isn't accurate. Hollywood was tiny.

QB Rating isn't a perfect stat, but it's a very comprehensive stat when one takes volume into account.
 

NG Pats Fan

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
Lamar doesn’t have enough of a playoff sample size to defend this opinion of Wozzy. I would still have taken Lamar at 24 over that fat tree stump short armed guard Wynn who sucks at blocking ..terrible pick by Belichick

Wozzy,

If you need a good passing attack to win in the playoffs, how does that bode for the Patriots chances who possess a bottom of the barrel passing attack?
 

crawhammer

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
He sucks every year in the playoffs and the LJ truthers disappear every year in the playoffs.... every f-ing year.

But don't worry, I bookmarked this thread and will remind you.
I don't recall personally having any in depth conversation with you about Jackson. You're making an assumption, one that Jackson will suck in the postseason (if Baltimore even makes it), and two I'll duck from the conversation. The first thing could happen, we'll see, but I'll be happy to discuss it either way.

Again, he's 25 and this is his 5th season in the NFL. He's been to the postseason 3 times, once as a rookie making only his 8th career start... was he horrible in that game?... he got them back in it with 2 TD passes in the 4th quarter. He ran for 143 and 136 respectively in his next two playoff games, as a quarterback... are you just discounting that? He pretty much carried his team on his back in the divisional round loss to Tennessee... accounting for 508 yards of offense by himself. That's far from sucking.

Jackson is a talented quarterback, which includes running on designed plays as well as scrambling out of bad passing plays. Most quarterbacks, when a pass play breaks down it's either an incompletion or a sack. Not usually going to be the case with Jackson. So you're kind of discounting his ability to extend plays or make something out of nothing.

Looking at that Baltimore team, they probably suck without Jackson. With him they have a good chance of winning that division, which includes another Super Bowl caliber team.
 

PatsFan2

Pro Bowl Player
2019 Weekly Picks Winner
Lamar doesn’t have enough of a playoff sample size to defend this opinion of Wozzy. I would still have taken Lamar at 24 over that fat tree stump short armed guard Wynn who sucks at blocking ..terrible pick by Belichick

Wozzy,

If you need a good passing attack to win in the playoffs, how does that bode for the Patriots chances who possess a bottom of the barrel passing attack?
Lamar looked very good running it and passing it against us.
I Want It Desire GIF by WAVE Podcast Network
 

Wozzy

In the Starting Line-Up
Lamar doesn’t have enough of a playoff sample size to defend this opinion of Wozzy. I would still have taken Lamar at 24 over that fat tree stump short armed guard Wynn who sucks at blocking ..terrible pick by Belichick

Wozzy,

If you need a good passing attack to win in the playoffs, how does that bode for the Patriots chances who possess a bottom of the barrel passing attack?
If you want to speak with me you can respond to me directly. Lamar’s playoff record is atrocious, three seasons and four games worth.

Mac was ranked 11th in passing yards entering last weekend’s games. If he can manage his turnovers he is far from bottom of the barrel. If Zappe can play and not turn the ball over this will be a far from a bottom of the barrel offense. Nobody knows what Zappe will become or Mac for that matter, he is an unfinished product.

It’s ironic you LJ truthers are convinced he’ll improve mightily in year five but Zappe as a rookie and Max three games into year two are bottom of the barrel.
 

Wozzy

In the Starting Line-Up
I don't recall personally having any in depth conversation with you about Jackson. You're making an assumption, one that Jackson will suck in the postseason (if Baltimore even makes it), and two I'll duck from the conversation. The first thing could happen, we'll see, but I'll be happy to discuss it either way.

Again, he's 25 and this is his 5th season in the NFL. He's been to the postseason 3 times, once as a rookie making only his 8th career start... was he horrible in that game?... he got them back in it with 2 TD passes in the 4th quarter. He ran for 143 and 136 respectively in his next two playoff games, as a quarterback... are you just discounting that? He pretty much carried his team on his back in the divisional round loss to Tennessee... accounting for 508 yards of offense by himself. That's far from sucking.

Jackson is a talented quarterback, which includes running on designed plays as well as scrambling out of bad passing plays. Most quarterbacks, when a pass play breaks down it's either an incompletion or a sack. Not usually going to be the case with Jackson. So you're kind of discounting his ability to extend plays or make something out of nothing.

Looking at that Baltimore team, they probably suck without Jackson. With him they have a good chance of winning that division, which includes another Super Bowl caliber team.
No need to talk so much, see me in December.
 

BaconGrundleCandy

Not the kind of guy to say I told you so ...
PatsFans.com Supporter
Yea you did and do. Whatever. You think your take is the word of gospel and everyone else you either ignore or claim they don't know as much as you. Just look as your past posts. It oozes arrogance.

Not even close. Multiple career stats? LOL

How is his efficiency in 11 personnel compared to all QBs who throw for over 4000 yards and 500 attempts? How about % of bad throws per attempt? On target throw %? Games when he attempts more than 29 passes. How does he compare?

Do some homework.
I don't think my word is the gospel. And I'm sorry if you're upset that I don't really think you're all that knowledgeable. Again people can easily look at everyones post here if they dont have them hidden. Youre captain of Team Bill, a nice guy and pretty rational but you're post are vanilla. Its not that serious man I don't really care if people think I'm a clown or know what I'm talking about.

Anyway I'm been following Jackson for years and have admitted every step of the way the he has his flaws and concerns. The other side has been acting clowns the entire time. First it was Jackson can't play QB, then he can't make the playoffs, he's a good passer etc it's always something even though there's a lot of evidence pointing to the opposite.

I didn't just find Sharp's site today and have actually posted that stuff before. Congrats on finding it though it's neat.

You seem to be discounting the career stats I posted though and think this is an end all. It's part of the puzzle. He has to improve but stats show he's on par with the guys you said he wasn't.

Also he's been a pretty good passer in crunch time despite the bad INT the other day. Again not the end all that proves he's an elite passer. Just a lot better than people like you think.


I'm not saying he's an "elite" passer but on par with the guys you mentioned. I think we both know where each other stands.
 

captain stone

Hall of Fame Poster
Just as some thought might happen, when the conditions aren't perfect neither is Lamar, who has Indoor QB Syndrome branded right on his forehead... Explains why he's a playoff loser too...
 

RobertWeathers

Author of the Port Huron Statement
I don't think my word is the gospel. And I'm sorry if you're upset that I don't really think you're all that knowledgeable. Again people can easily look at everyones post here if they dont have them hidden. Youre captain of Team Bill, a nice guy and pretty rational but you're post are vanilla. Its not that serious man I don't really care if people think I'm a clown or know what I'm talking about.

Anyway I'm been following Jackson for years and have admitted every step of the way the he has his flaws and concerns. The other side has been acting clowns the entire time. First it was Jackson can't play QB, then he can't make the playoffs, he's a good passer etc it's always something even though there's a lot of evidence pointing to the opposite.

I didn't just find Sharp's site today and have actually posted that stuff before. Congrats on finding it though it's neat.

You seem to be discounting the career stats I posted though and think this is an end all. It's part of the puzzle. He has to improve but stats show he's on par with the guys you said he wasn't.

Also he's been a pretty good passer in crunch time despite the bad INT the other day. Again not the end all that proves he's an elite passer. Just a lot better than people like you think.


I'm not saying he's an "elite" passer but on par with the guys you mentioned. I think we both know where each other stands.

Typical response. Arrogance. Condescending. QBR in the 4th qtr? Are you saying LJ is a better passer that Brady, Mahomes and Rogers? Keep digging the ditch you currently stand in. I'm enjoying it.

I suggest sticking to your draft research. That way you can be wrong 99.9% of the time and say you were right once and no one would care.
 
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crawhammer

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
Mac was ranked 11th in passing yards entering last weekend’s games. If he can manage his turnovers he is far from bottom of the barrel. If Zappe can play and not turn the ball over this will be a far from a bottom of the barrel offense. Nobody knows what Zappe will become or Mac for that matter, he is an unfinished product.

It’s ironic you LJ truthers are convinced he’ll improve mightily in year five but Zappe as a rookie and Max three games into year two are bottom of the barrel.
Even as an unfinished product you can see Mac isn't "bottom of the barrel." You can also see his ceiling isn't elite level. Zappe looks really limited, particularly arm strength, and they took an (overly) conservative approach with him on Sunday. Frankly, his limitations, and/or the coaching staff's lack of trust in the player, cost them the game. Jackson, with his style of play, is an elite football player. Outside of the TE, Jackson doesn't have a strong supporting cast either. If I'm putting a franchise together for the next five years then there are only 3 quarterbacks I'm taking over Jackson... Mahomes, Allen and Watson. Herbert is probably tied with Jackson.
 

Wozzy

In the Starting Line-Up
Even as an unfinished product you can see Mac isn't "bottom of the barrel." You can also see his ceiling isn't elite level. Zappe looks really limited, particularly arm strength, and they took an (overly) conservative approach with him on Sunday. Frankly, his limitations, and/or the coaching staff's lack of trust in the player, cost them the game. Jackson, with his style of play, is an elite football player. Outside of the TE, Jackson doesn't have a strong supporting cast either. If I'm putting a franchise together for the next five years then there are only 3 quarterbacks I'm taking over Jackson... Mahomes, Allen and Watson. Herbert is probably tied with Jackson.
Lol... arm strength is the biggest load of garbage regarding the Patriot's QB's... whether we're talking about Mac or Zappe.

Yeah, Mac has a weak arm, even though we’ve seen him complete multiple 45+ yard passes that were entirely air yards. The longest pass TB12 made in his historic 2007 season traveled about 47 air yards... or the same distance Mac threw on one long pass to N'Keal Harry last year.

And Zappe, he has a weak arm also. How do we know? Because the Patriots drafted him and that’s the default position because Bill fcked us or some other BS because Tom chose to leave.

Meanwhile watch at the :25 mark:

m.youtube.com/watch?v=37yeoWpubgY

50 yards through the air… but he’s a Patriot so... “noodle arm.”

Haters have to make sht up when they have no actual proof.

Arm strength is the most overrated nonsense casual fans bandy about. Last season Sean Payton had Jameis Winston playing at a hyper efficient level by keeping the clamps on him, this year he is the same reckless decision maker he always has been, and all the arm strength in the world won't help him... and he has it in spades.
 

BaconGrundleCandy

Not the kind of guy to say I told you so ...
PatsFans.com Supporter
Typical response. Arrogance. Condescending but contains a re-tweet calling out a singular data point without context. QBR in the 4th qtr? Are you saying LJ is a better passer that Brady, Mahomes and Rogers? Keep digging the ditch you currently stand in. I'm enjoying it.
Yes I'm comparing Jackson to Brady and saying he's a better passer lol. C'mon man, its just one piece of info concerning Jackson.
I literally said in that post it's not an end all, be all stat. They're just pieces to a puzzle. You seem to just discount everything positive in Jackson's direction though. Seems like you're ignoring what doesn't fit your narrative on focusing on what you want.
I suggest sticking to your draft research. That way you can be wrong 99.9% of the time and say you were right once and no one would care.
Bringing up draft stuff ... clear tell you're mad lol. At least be honest and objective. If not you sound like DKF just ranting.

Fwiw, You can actually look at these things to gain perspective by looking career, per game AV from pfr. And just looking at people's they put out stuff before the draft. Unfortunately not many ever do, even in the draft forum. I've done very well, right in line with NFL when someone here looked at them.

I bet my grades are actually in line with where we take most of our players. And again I put all that before the draft.

Also if there's anyone better identifying Patriot prospects I haven't seen them. We've had some good posters here but they're playing for 2nd place if we're being honest. And I mean that respectfully. Rook, Mayo, Box were unbelievable. Midwest, Manx and OTG right behind them, those guys were really good too.
 

RobertWeathers

Author of the Port Huron Statement
Yes I'm comparing Jackson to Brady and saying he's a better passer lol. C'mon man, its just one piece of info concerning Jackson.
I literally said in that post it's not an end all, be all stat. They're just pieces to a puzzle. You seem to just discount everything positive in Jackson's direction though. Seems like you're ignoring what doesn't fit your narrative on focusing on what you want.
Pot, meet kettle. You have yet to offer a rebuttal to the 1/2 dozen points I've made because you can't. You blew off Wozzy as well.

If you want to keep posting pieces of the puzzle and never connect them you'll continue to have posters believe you think he is as good as Brady, Rogers and Mahomes.

Jackson is barely a top 15 passing QB. I've said that 1000 times. Numbers prove it. He has good QBR #s in the 4th qtr. Great.
Bringing up draft stuff ... clear tell you're mad lol. At least be honest and objective. If not you sound like DKF just ranting.

Fwiw, You can actually look at these things to gain perspective by looking career, per game AV from pfr. And just looking at people's they put out stuff before the draft. Unfortunately not many ever do, even in the draft forum. I've done very well, right in line with NFL when someone here looked at them.

I bet my grades are actually in line with where we take most of our players. And again I put all that before the draft.

Also if there's anyone better identifying Patriot prospects I haven't seen them. We've had some good posters here but they're playing for 2nd place if we're being honest. And I mean that respectfully. Rook, Mayo, Box were unbelievable. Midwest, Manx and OTG right behind them, those guys were really good too.
Not upset - annoyed. Big difference.

Man, you like yourself. That much is certain.
 
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Triumph

Hall of Fame Poster
Typical response. Arrogance. Condescending. QBR in the 4th qtr? Are you saying LJ is a better passer that Brady, Mahomes and Rogers? Keep digging the ditch you currently stand in. I'm enjoying it.

I suggest sticking to your draft research. That way you can be wrong 99.9% of the time and say you were right once and no one would care.

Josh Allen will win a Super Bowl before Lamar Jackson if Jackson wins one at all.

Bottom line is that Allen makes those around him better. After Diggs, Allen has regular guys the same as Brady did. Jackson wants to run the ball in for a TD from 50 yards and be the 1 man show.
 

1960Pats

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
Josh Allen will win a Super Bowl before Lamar Jackson if Jackson wins one at all.

Bottom line is that Allen makes those around him better. After Diggs, Allen has regular guys the same as Brady did. Jackson wants to run the ball in for a TD from 50 yards and be the 1 man show.
Both of those QBs run too often but Allen has gotten away with it (so far) because of his size. Allen also seems to be improving more.
 

Triumph

Hall of Fame Poster
Both of those QBs run too often but Allen has gotten away with it (so far) because of his size. Allen also seems to be improving more.
Jackson already has 316 rushing yards in 4 games. The next Ravens RB only has 123 yards. Jacksons longest run is 79 yards. He wants to be Mike Vick and will end up just like him when the big hit happens.

Allen has rushed for 183 yards and his longest is 20 yards. I notice that he takes off on those 3rd and 10 pass plays where you have at least 10 yards of open real estate in front of you for a new set of downs.
 

RobertWeathers

Author of the Port Huron Statement
Both of those QBs run too often but Allen has gotten away with it (so far) because of his size. Allen also seems to be improving more.
Hes still running a lot. Ran for over 700yds last year and on the same pace this year.

Difference is he throws the ball 600 times + year.

Hes another guy i'm concerned might be taking a more hits than he should.
 

203Pat

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
He sucks every year in the playoffs and the LJ truthers disappear every year in the playoffs.... every f-ing year.

But don't worry, I bookmarked this thread and will remind you.

Just a reminder for now... I have this conversation with LJ truthers every September every season for the last four years and not once have one of you jokers acknowledged it.
I always think there is some ulterior motive in the people who seem to go out of their way to trash Jackson.
 


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