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Kraft Orchids Case - Prosecuters Want a Tug Rule?


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The prosecutor said “human trafficking”, so that got picked up by ESPN and trumpeted every news cycle, even though Kraft was only charged with soliciting. So now Kraft is forever tarred with that.

Forever.

You may rail at the ‘injustice’ of it, but politically ambitious prosecutors overcharge much more serious crimes everyday (e.g. Kamalatoe bringing criminal charges against parents of truant kids).

In the big scheme of things it doesn’t matter if he gets off on a technicality or not, it is going to be forever ingrained in people’s minds that Bob Kraft took advantage of ‘trafficked’ women.

You can argue your bs points with Andy all day long but that is the sorry truth. And 250 pages of whining isn’t going to change that.

And as much as it pains me to say this, Bob Kraft has only himself to blame for his predicament, and for letting the franchise and the fans all down.

A. This has little do with Kraft. The debate in this thread has long turned away from Kraft's image and onto the nature of the police investigation/surveillance and whether or not the police overstepped. No one really cares or argues that Kraft deserves to get off. It's about the deeper issue of police surveillance.

B. I think you're being dramatic about the "forever" ingrained into people's minds. I don't think most people outside of New England really give a crap about this story in general...it was more of a blip on the radar type of incident for those who aren't hardcore NFL fans/Patriots haters. It's like if you asked a lot of people about Jim Irsay's transgressions, 9 out of 10 people would have no idea what the heck you're talking about and the rest would have a vague recollection. This isn't like SPYGATE!!! or DEFLATEGATE!!! where the media has been able to brand it into every leading newspaper and magazine for six months...there just isn't much interest in Bob Kraft.
 
A. Lol @ police surveillance. Like you have suddenly discovered some major abuse of human rights. Get a grip. Like I said - but you ignored - overcharging cases happens every day in this country. Many of the politicians that I am sure you voted for got there with he help of that winning formula. Suddenly getting up in arms over a billionaires solicitiation charge not only makes you not only hypocritical but foolishly naive as well.

B. You must live a sheltered life. Have you seen the nfl reddit ? You are going to be seeing those memes for as long as the Patriots continue to be successful.
 
The prosecutor said “human trafficking”, so that got picked up by ESPN and trumpeted every news cycle, even though Kraft was only charged with soliciting. So now Kraft is forever tarred with that.

Forever.

You may rail at the ‘injustice’ of it, but politically ambitious prosecutors overcharge much more serious crimes everyday (e.g. Kamalatoe bringing criminal charges against parents of truant kids).

In the big scheme of things it doesn’t matter if he gets off on a technicality or not, it is going to be forever ingrained in people’s minds that Bob Kraft took advantage of ‘trafficked’ women.

You can argue your bs points with Andy all day long but that is the sorry truth. And 250 pages of whining isn’t going to change that.

And as much as it pains me to say this, Bob Kraft has only himself to blame for his predicament, and for letting the franchise and the fans all down.

You have misunderstood what I'm pointing out and have been since the start of this idiocy. The locals jumped the gun because they ASSUMED the "human trafficking" angle would be picked up by the feds. It hasn't because there has always been an element of national security at stake here. These spas are triad run. The triad in south Florida is one of the biggest in southern China with a reported 55,000 + members worldwide. In case you haven't noticed, we have been at war with China for the past 15, 20 years over everything from software design to coffee makers. The Feds NEED intel from the triads(tongs) in China much like they need the intel from the Russian mafia in Jersey and Manhattan.
There's a quid pro quo involved in this international intrigue. Please tell me you haven't noticed the proliferation of Russian control over gas outlets in Jersey the past 10 years. The Feds KNOW they're skimming tax money but they NEED the intel the Russian vors can provide from inside the former Soviet Union.

I agree with you that Kraft has stepped in it. Given the visceral hate engendered by the Patriots organization the past 18 years, I would have to agree this sordid saga will stick with him the rest of his life. I DISAGREE with your characterization of ME as a bullshyt artist. I'm dead serious about this and what I am outlining. When the feds charge anyone in this case with "human trafficking" I'll gladly eat my words in print right here. Until then, do not patronize me with terms such as "rail at the injustice of" and "bs points".
 
You have misunderstood what I'm pointing out and have been since the start of this idiocy. The locals jumped the gun because they ASSUMED the "human trafficking" angle would be picked up by the feds. It hasn't because there has always been an element of national security at stake here. These spas are triad run. The triad in south Florida is one of the biggest in southern China with a reported 55,000 + members worldwide. In case you haven't noticed, we have been at war with China for the past 15, 20 years over everything from software design to coffee makers. The Feds NEED intel from the triads(tongs) in China much like they need the intel from the Russian mafia in Jersey and Manhattan.
There's a quid pro quo involved in this international intrigue. Please tell me you haven't noticed the proliferation of Russian control over gas outlets in Jersey the past 10 years. The Feds KNOW they're skimming tax money but they NEED the intel the Russian vors can provide from inside the former Soviet Union.

I agree with you that Kraft has stepped in it. Given the visceral hate engendered by the Patriots organization the past 18 years, I would have to agree this sordid saga will stick with him the rest of his life. I DISAGREE with your characterization of ME as a bullshyt artist. I'm dead serious about this and what I am outlining. When the feds charge anyone in this case with "human trafficking" I'll gladly eat my words in print right here. Until then, do not patronize me with terms such as "rail at the injustice of" and "bs points".

I never called you a bs artist. But that is one of the most ridiculous conspiracy story I have ever heard. You can’t really believe that.

The simplest explanation is that a zealous prosecutor and police department made a mountain out of a molehill. Successfully, as that prosecutor is a hero in South Florida.
 
Not sure why everyone is riding the cops on this one. Let's assume they messed the case completely up. What does that have to do with whether Kraft is guilty or not? He's not being charged with sex trafficking and you have to ask yourself, "do I think he did it"? If you think he was dating this woman and decided the best place to go out for a date was at her place of business or he was at this seedy strip mall to get a massage, then more power to you. If you think he was up to something illegal, then what the cops did is purely a procedural issue. Either way, the issue is what he did or didn't do. Everything else is smoke and mirrors. He's paying his lawyer to redirect your attention to the legal aspect of it and away from Kraft's guilt or innocence.

Let's be clear, the cops could have done everything wrong and that may legally clear Kraft but that really isn't the issue. The procedural questions are what his team of lawyers wants you to focus on though and why he's paying for them. They aren't arguing that he didn't do it and they aren't arguing the morality of prostitution. They are focusing on the procedure and sex trafficking ro redirect your attention because that is where they want it.

In our Judicial system there are laws and rules, when the police violate them a consequence can be dismissal.. Kraft has a team of top rated lawyers, but any private lawyer or public defender can initiate a dismissal if there are violations..

Kraft is paying his attorneys to obtain justice for him.. but nothing the Atty's do will remove the taint of embarrassment that he has experienced by his own doing. Kraft f...ed up, no doubt, but should there be legal consequences and trial in the media for his offense?? I think not.. It is behind the closed doors thing..

This is further complicated by the AG & police discussing this case in the press and offering conflicting stories.. i.e. initial sex trafficking reports, offering him a deal before he even appeared in Ct. Usually that is done in private and both sides negotiate, not one side dictates outcomes in public or in the press. During the discovery phase of this process the AG has to turn over all their evidence and how they obtained the evidence...

My guess is that there are procedural issues with this case, and it will never get to trial.. if the AG is smart he or she will cut their losses and get out of this mess and move on to other cases.. is it wise to devote usually stretched resources for misdemeanors or cases where they know it will be thrown out??
 
Just for the record members hurling insults and talking national politics is just not okay.
 
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Kraft has a hearing tomorrow
All of Patriot nation hopes Kraft’s lawyers turn this into a laughing stock and embarrass the inept Juniper PD.

Fox 25 news has a post on Twitter asking if Kraft should be banned from owning the team. Where do they get this poop from over a simple misdemeanor?
 
You have an odd outlook on this. The DAs job is to prosecute people who commit crimes. It isn’t to “win” by embarrassing someone. They don’t get egg on their face if they lose. This isn’t a bunch of teenagers on social media obsessed with what people may say about them.
I don’t understand how they are “digging in their heels” when they offered a plea bargain and it was rejected. What else should they do? Say “oh you don’t want the plea bargain for the crime you committed, no problem, never mind we will drop it”.
By this argument they should just throw out
any crime that isn’t severe.

IMO, the fact that the DA offered a plea bargain tells me that the video evidence isn't 100% guaranteed to be admissible. Again, I am no lawyer...I just watch a lot of TV, LOL.

DA's can drop cases that they deem to not be worthy of prosecution due to lack of evidence or reliability of witnesses.


No it isn’t. There are witnesses. Do you think the only crimes that get convictions are ones with video of them being committed?

A witness is only worth their credibility with 12 people on the jury.


Oh come on. You think you read something about misconduct somewhere so now every cop in that county will not be allowed to testify?

It worked for O.J. The Marion county Sheriff's department had a lot of weird cases...including jailing a woman for 90 days over laundry detergent that a cop insisted was meth.....


Wow. A take being inadmissible (if that happened) does not mean it was obtained illegally. They had a warrant.

Inadmissible means it "doesn't exist"...legal or not. And they had a warrant...but they execute the warrant within its parameters? There is discussion of whether they were even allowed to RECORD.

Oh great. Now you are arguing that the credibility of someone you never met and no nothing about would easily be destroyed because their boss said “hit the record button we have a warrant” and you think you rad something somewhere.
Let me be clear here, because people in this thread consistently make up things meaning something that wasn’t said.
Police have and do break the rules. Some are not credible. Some lie. You have absolutely nothing to conclude that THESE cops did any of that.

I have nothing man! I only have what I read and my own opinion. However, here's a link:

Deputies posed as 'repair persons' to plant cameras at spas

KEY QUOTES:

However, one local law firm representing more than a dozen accused "johns", believes the video recordings were obtained illegally. Attorneys with Kibbey-Wagner recently filed a motion to keep the videos out of evidence in at least four cases out of Martin County.

“The [search warrant application] that the police filed with the judge was to monitor and record what was happening the spa,” said Jordan Wagner, a partner at the firm. “But in the judge's order, he only put the word monitor, not monitor and record.”

We checked the paperwork. The search warrant applications clearly ask for monitoring and recording permissions in the title of the document. However, the judge’s order granting those permissions only uses the word "monitor," not "monitor and record."

“We feel if you ask for A, B, and C, and you only get A and B, logic would tell you that you weren’t allowed to get C,” Wagner told WPTV’s Meghan McRoberts. “In this case, they asked for monitoring and recording and the judge’s order only says monitoring.

AND:

“I think people should be concerned about their privacy,” Martin County Sheriff William Snyder told Contact 5, during a recent one-on-one interview. “We would only do a video surveillance like this under the most extraordinary circumstances.

William Snyder is the same dude who said, "Oh, it wasn't human traficking....my bad!" just last week....

Kraft ruined his own reputation.
A district attorney isn’t trying to win by embarrassing people they are trying to prosecute law breakers and get justice.

Yep, that was my point. The DA already has a win. The DA is an elected official....and presumably needs to be tough on crime which means they need to have a high conviction rate. This DA has his/her work cut out for them.....this case is a loser case...it is why they gave Kraft an easy out....if Kraft admitted guilt...sent some money to an anti-human trafficking organization....issued a public apology...got suspended 4-5 games by Goodell...we would no longer be talking about this. Kraft and his legal team obviously think they can win this case and if I were the DA, I would fight for the admissibility of the video....and punt the case if the video isn't a part of it.

BTW, a personal question....where do you find the energy to type up walls of text/quoting everybody here?
 
O’Leary’s bogus narcotics arrests aren’t the only instances of misconduct in the Martin County Sheriff’s Office, the same agency that spearheaded the Orchids of Asia Day Spa bust leading to New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft being hit with solicitation of prostitution charges. Since 2000, the Martin County sheriff has spent more than $1.33 million settling lawsuits brought by people who say officers used excessive force, falsified reports, or made wrongful arrests.
Florida Woman Faced 10 Years For 'Meth' That Was 'Just a Rock' - The Appeal
 
All of Patriot nation hopes Kraft’s lawyers turn this into a laughing stock and embarrass the inept Juniper PD.

Fox 25 news has a post on Twitter asking if Kraft should be banned from owning the team. Where do they get this poop from over a simple misdemeanor?

Speak for yourself. I'm not pulling for Kraft's lawyers to turn his case into a laughingstock if he's guilty of the crime. He should take his punishment like a man, just as he advised Belichick and Brady to do for no crimes at all. Bob Kraft is a schmuck for getting caught in a crime.

As for Fox 25 News, when it comes to questioning the penalty to Kraft from the NFL and the court, they're on the same page as NBC, CBS, NESN, MSN, Boston Globe, USA Today, NY Times, Washington Post, Chicago Tribune, NY Daily News and many other media outlets. Hoping for Kraft to get off with this crime is not the majority opinion.
 
Not at all surprised but umm, we need to wait for the facts. Lmao
I’ll just say we have a very different definition of facts and leave it at that.
 
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