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Discussion in 'The PatsFans.com Pub' started by Joey007, Feb 22, 2019.

  1. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Pro Bowl Player

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    No the surveillance as executed was not legal. It would have been if they stuck to it but they went beyond it. That's why it was thrown out.
     
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  2. patfanken

    patfanken PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    what was it when the cop who stopped the car is quoted as saying he'd figure out some excuse to make the stop? What's your definition of lying?
     
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  3. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I never said I believed it was legal, how could I, there were no facts?
    There is a world of difference saying I assume if a judge issued a warrant, that warrant is justified and proper pending the facts surrounding it, and saying I know it’s fine.

    By the way as it turned out the judge ruled the surveillance was legal but the method of ensuring only criminal acts were taped was improper.
    There was not a single piece of evidence available during that discussion that would allow anyone to know that.
    This is EXACTLY why I didn’t offer a conclusion.
     
  4. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The judge said nothing about that in his ruling.
     
  5. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You are parsing words.
     
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  6. Patsfanin Philly

    Patsfanin Philly Pro Bowl Player

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    Not necessarily. Joe Public defender is often over loaded with cases and doesn't always have the time or resources to find precedent in LexisNExis or the capability to write a brief as well as an attorney with twenty or thirty years experience. By and large, PDs are right out of law school as this would be the type of case handled by a new graduate or a green PD, not a homicide or major crime which would get the experienced Public Defender.
     
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  7. maust1013

    maust1013 In the Starting Line-Up

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    [​IMG]
     
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  8. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Reporters found the case. Just citing it was all the legal work required.
     
  9. Ice_Ice_Brady

    Ice_Ice_Brady PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Didn’t some of the Johns already agree to the deal to admit guilt but keep their record clean? If so that’s evidence enough right there that having strong legal representation is critical.

    Had this moved forward, and if it does on appeal, Kraft’s legal team already had many more avenues to pursue, including procedural discovery issues, etc.
     
  10. patfanken

    patfanken PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    F the ruling, Andy. Did the cop lie about why he stopped the car or not? Simple question. What's your answer.
     

  11. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don’t know the facts.
    I’m talking about what the judge ruled.
    If you want to give me facts I’ll tell you what I think.
     
  12. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Well they were guilty.
     
  13. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Put me down as someone who says that, at least when it comes to the law, it's wrong to assume things were done by the book.
     
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  14. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    What does money have to do with it? There were obvious problems here, and multiple people on this board were pointing them out. It didn't take a high end attorney to see what was going on.

    And, unless your position is that the wealthy aren't entitled to a defense, which would be stupid, but at least interesting, you're not doing anything but whining about capitalism.

    Probably not. The motion was not one that only the best of the best could have come up with. Furthermore, as more evidence came out, it became ever clearer that the case was flawed in pretty much every way.
     
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  15. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    People often look to just settle misdemeanors and move on, especially if you can basically get the case kept off of your record. Posters here (I'm not naming anyone, or putting anyone specific in that group, but it seems to be the way a chunk of the board is leaning) seem to be forgetting that "just plea it out" was the rallying cry of a huge number of people on this issue.

    That's not really about money.
     
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    Last edited: May 14, 2019
  16. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Pro Bowl Player

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    That's why I said "as executed" Dont try and spin it into a legally executed surveillance. It was not ever legal. The judge's version was. What the cops did was not that. You absolutely accepted it as a properly executed surveillance because you continued to argue "until otherwise" even as we were all arguing that the judge never allowed for recording nonstop of everyone they wanted. You have been sympathetic to every move of the cops and health dept. You'd use the "why would they do this or why would they do that or why would they target Kraft"? You ever hear of a "tip". You ever hear of a leak of false information to create a false narrative? The cops press conference screamed trafficking. They lied. Stocked refrigerators? You argued against cops raiding the place so they could all the sweet time they needed to gather evidence for their case. The cops were passionate and emotional in their press conference about the conditions and weeks long imprisonment of these poor sex workers. Everyone has been wrong about some things about this case. You stand alone of the one person that has never been. Sad
     
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  17. Hyped

    Hyped PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    My thoughts:

    1.) This was a clusterfuck from the start. The Marin county DA/Police Department really screwed the pooch on this one...and all over a mere prostitution charge... they screwed up by initially framing this as a human trafficking sting, then reached out to defendants to offer to drop charges in exchange for a "guilty admission" because they knew they had nothing, then accused Kraft's lawyers of lying, and etc.... I think if I were a citizen of Marin county, I'd be voting them all out of office the next election. Resources could have been better used

    2.) If the video is ever released to TMZ or something, I expect Marin county to get sued and thus cost tax payers more money.

    3.) Kraft has also lost here too....his reputation took a massive hit, but I think he can put this behind him as the years go on though.

    4.) I think Goodell will settle on a 4 game suspension. Isray got 6....and I think a hand job isn't as bad as having drugs/cash in your car, but that is just me.

    5.) I thin it is past time for Jonathan Kraft to take control of the franchise, IMO....if he hasn't already done so. Bob did a lot for us all...and I'll thank him for it and always be a fan, but Kraft is 77......

    6.) Even though Kraft is allegedly guilty....this was a major victory for our constitutional rights...cops should not be allowed to "invent" reasons for pulling people over nor allowed to install hidden surveillance cameras without substantial evidence of criminal activity (they only had a health department inspector's observations at that point).
     
  18. maust1013

    maust1013 In the Starting Line-Up

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  19. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No matter how many times you lie about what I said it won’t be what I said.

    The judge ruled surveillance legal. He ruled the method of turning on and off the machine inappropriate.

    “We arguing” about when they turned the machine off or on without basing it on actual facts is meaningless. Perhaps that’s the divide. A poster saying they think something happen certainly doesn’t qualify as “proven otherwise”.
    You continue to act like I drew a conclusion, which I never did. Ever.



    Sympathetic?
    It’s very simple. There was a mob mentality jumping the gun and proclaiming they knew what happened. I argued against the made up arguments.
    If the mob mentality had been convicting Kraft without evidence I would have been on the other side explaining why THAT was premature, speculative and we need to wait for facts.


    There you go. Conspiracy theory with absolutely nothing to back it up. I would 100% argue that point. You have zero facts.
    Arguing you are making up a conspiracy theory is not arguing everything was done right, it’s arguing you are talking out your @ss.


    When did I “argue against” that?


    There are many people that weren’t wrong because most people do what I do, and don’t think they know facts that aren’t available.
    You are seriously here arguing that everyone who drew conclusions without facts were right and the one guy questioning that unconfirmed information being portrayed as fact was wrong.
    Truly bizarre.
     
  20. fnordcircle

    fnordcircle The poster who James White said inspires him. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Always trust the police when they're talking about the deceit done by other police?
     
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