It’s all about turnovers

[Ring 6]

Didn't we pass on Lamar? Also, I'm sure there were options over the last couple years. Maybe someone a tad younger we could have brought in to sit behind Brady for a season? There must have been an option better than Stid/Hoyer. I don't buy they were the best we could have gotten. I know we signed Cam, but if he wasn't available at the very end, was our plan Stid/Hoyer?

@Ring 6 - I'm telling you. My opinion on Cam is irrelevant here. This doesn't debunk my opinion on the QB situation. I want Cam to succeed. However, I can also admit that he was a very late signing and I question how long they considered Cam "the plan". He was a late signing and you could argue it was lucky he was available that late. With that said, you and some others are saying Cam is not a very good QB. Others are saying he's washed. If he's washed and this was a desperate signing, what if he wasn't available? Would you have considered Stid/Hoyer a concrete plan? I don't think its unfair to say Belichick failed a little here. Especially since we could have signed Lamar (but if I'm misremembering let me know).

You keep saying this as if there was a different plan they chose not to execute. Winston? Dalton? Come on.
Jackson was never a free agent and when he was drafted the patriots were coming off a Sb title and Brady showed no signs of slowing.

 

[Ring 6]

In Newton's 8 healthy seasons, he averaged 23 TD passes and 3,560 yds

This year, Cam is on pace for 6 TD passes and 2,583 yds, 0 to WRs & TEs

The likely WRs and TEs this Sunday caught a whopping 7 TDs in 2019 from Brady. (2020 TDs from Cam=0 )
Edelman.....6 (0)
Izzo..............1 (0)
Meyers.......0 (0)
Keene..........DNP (0)

Byrd...........1 (Ariz) (0)

Note: Harry is the only Pats WR or TE to catch TD pass this year (1) delivered by Stidham
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In Newton's 2015 MVP season , Cam threw 31 TDs to WRs and TEs
In Newton's 2018 season (McCaffrey based offense), Cam threw 17 TD passes to WRs & TEs
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Opinions vary but what can't be ignored.....
These stats demonstrate Newton has a long track record of success passing to NFL WRs & TEs
Newton's Patriots "weapons" have no track record of success except Edelman who is clearly diminished this season

How does that say he has a long track record of success with WRs and TEs?
You cherry picked your way to making mediocre numbers look presentable.
3500 yards and 23 TDs in your healthy seasons stinks. What WR ever thrived under newton.
When he signed I posted his career stats compared to all other NFL QBs who were starters for most of the same period.
I think there were 13. He was bottom 2 or 3 in almost every single passing stat.

You cherry picked and stay twisted to put lipstick on the pig and call it a beauty.

 

[Ring 6]

I agree that it is not gloom and doom, but there are issues. Are the rookie TEs going to stick? Beating out Izzo is not a high bar. We need a WR who draws coverage. And of course we need a QB that does not turn into a puddle sometimes.

Sure but every team has issues. If they ran the ball, set up easy reads and easy passes, played from ahead, and didn’t turn it over its a completely different team.
Turning it over causes then to abandon what they should do, do what they stink at and turn it over even more.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Sure but every team has issues. If they ran the ball, set up easy reads and easy passes, played from ahead, and didn’t turn it over its a completely different team.
Turning it over causes then to abandon what they should do, do what they stink at and turn it over even more.

Yes every team has issues - we heard all week about how banged up the 49ers were and how it might be an easy game for us for that reason. What you propose is exactly what the Patriots should do. The running game was lost last week due to the score.

I do not think Harry is a bust or that the Patriots receivers are all that bad, but there is a weakness there, and until Keene and Asiasi hopefully start producing, we have the worse TE production in the NFL (which is a bit more than an every team issue). Hopefully the TE issue will fade as the year develops, and the WRs will improve as Gunner and Myers get more opportunity, but Cam and Stidham still have to lead touchdown drives which looks very unlikely right now. Cam says he has a mind block (I think it is a weak shoulder), and Stidham has the yips. I understand why Cam is our best hope, but not sure that short-term hope is more important than the long-term knowledge if Stidham can get over his yips or that he is not a NFL starting QB.

 

[Ring 6]

Yes every team has issues - we heard all week about how banged up the 49ers were and how it might be an easy game for us for that reason. What you propose is exactly what the Patriots should do. The running game was lost last week due to the score.

I do not think Harry is a bust or that the Patriots receivers are all that bad, but there is a weakness there, and until Keene and Asiasi hopefully start producing, we have the worse TE production in the NFL (which is a bit more than an every team issue). Hopefully the TE issue will fade as the year develops, and the WRs will improve as Gunner and Myers get more opportunity, but Cam and Stidham still have to lead touchdown drives which looks very unlikely right now. Cam says he has a mind block (I think it is a weak shoulder), and Stidham has the yips. I understand why Cam is our best hope, but not sure that short-term hope is more important than the long-term knowledge if Stidham can get over his yips or that he is not a NFL starting QB.

You just have to go out and try to win games. In 2001 we were 1-3 and 5-5 and won the SB. I’m not sure why people are killing Stidham. He was a 4th round pick who has thrown 27 passes in his career must in impossible situations. Not sure what you mean by the yips.
Of course you have a better chance to win with a veteran who has experience and a strength you can win with if you hide his weakness than with a young guy learning on the job. At whatever point the season is lost that equation changes IMO. 4 losses is not a list season especially in a year with an extra wc spot where 8-8 could get in. At that point how they are playing now is meaningless and what they grew into will matter.
Somehow it seems this board thinks if you can go 12-4 contend for a bye, clinch the dividing in November it’s time to pack it in. Never understood that.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Clearly, when Newton forces things, more often than not, he gets turnovers.

stidham clearly lacks courage and thus he panics and becomes a turnover machine.

at the end of the day, employing auburn qb’s means enduring a lot of turnovers!

only two words can stop this madness, and I do not mean.... roll tide!

the two words are Trevor Lawrence! Bb needs to lose the next ten games and with a little luck, we can draft Lawrence!

 

[Vindicate]

I'm giving Cam Newton one more game. Me wanting Cam Newton extended has nothing to do with this though. Belichick most likely believes Cam gives us our best chance to win. If Cam is as bad as you and others say, then our QB situation is very dire. If Cam is THIS bad... just how bad is Stid? I agree Cam is responsible for his bad play. However I can't blame him for our failures. Belichick thinks he gives us the best chance to win. If we didn't sign Cam, our options were Stid/Hoyer. That's barely a plan. I'm not saying Bill wants to lose. I just think losing Brady took its hit on the team and Belichick failed (barring Cam returns to decent form) to find a suitable replacement. Maybe It just wasn't possible. I don't know. However our three QBs were chosen by Belichick. Their failure is also his failure.

Have you seen Stid play? The guy is terrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrible. Like horrible. I'm giving Cam one more game, but yes. The QB situation is that dire.

 

[mgteich]

In 6 games the patriots have 14 turnovers.
These are full season turnover totals in last years
2019 15
2018 18
2017. 12
2016. 11
2015 14
2014. 13

That’s an average of 13.8 PER YEAR and they already have 14 in 6 games.
They averaged 3.7 losses per year in those 6 years and ranked 1,1,1,2,3,7 in turnovers.

In the last 3 losses they had 4,3 and 4 turnovers.
Over the last 6 years they had 3 or more turnovers a total of 5 times.

Fixing the turnovers will solve a lot of problems.

OTHERTS FACTORS ARE IMPORTANT, BUT
having NINE more turnovers than is average for 1/3 of the season has made a huge difference.

 

[JPPT1974]

Yeah as really think that Cam's best days are behind him. Really want to see him succeed. But really best days are behind him.

 

[Boston Boxer]

Didn't we pass on Lamar? Also, I'm sure there were options over the last couple years. Maybe someone a tad younger we could have brought in to sit behind Brady for a season? There must have been an option better than Stid/Hoyer. I don't buy they were the best we could have gotten. I know we signed Cam, but if he wasn't available at the very end, was our plan Stid/Hoyer?

@Ring 6 - I'm telling you. My opinion on Cam is irrelevant here. This doesn't debunk my opinion on the QB situation. I want Cam to succeed. However, I can also admit that he was a very late signing and I question how long they considered Cam "the plan". He was a late signing and you could argue it was lucky he was available that late. With that said, you and some others are saying Cam is not a very good QB. Others are saying he's washed. If he's washed and this was a desperate signing, what if he wasn't available? Would you have considered Stid/Hoyer a concrete plan? I don't think its unfair to say Belichick failed a little here. Especially since we could have signed Lamar (but if I'm misremembering let me know).

i think we passed on those QBs because the Patriots thought Brady would be around and not leave. Same reason they got rid of Jimmy G. I don't think the plan was ever for Brady to NOT retire a Patriot. Now if BB would have gotten him some weapons, he might have stayed. Who knows. I do know they were very high on Baker Mayfield and just couldn't get in range to take him. So they were looking. To your point, i think there will be QBs available to kick the tires on, but at this point we cant afford to be wrong and there will be no sitting and learning. If this season goes in the ****ter (which is possible with the rest of our schedule), we could be in position to select a QB or move up really high in the draft to get a top pick QB.

 

[Ring 6]

OTHERTS FACTORS ARE IMPORTANT, BUT
having NINE more turnovers than is average for 1/3 of the season has made a huge difference.

We have always known that turnovers are the #1 correlation to winning and losing. The most stunning part is that we had 3+ turnover in 3 straight losses and had only done that 5 times in 6 years.
We have had 4 turnovers in 2 of the last 3 games. Before that the New England patriots had not committed 4 turnover in any game since 2012 a steal of 117 games.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

You just have to go out and try to win games. In 2001 we were 1-3 and 5-5 and won the SB. I’m not sure why people are killing Stidham. He was a 4th round pick who has thrown 27 passes in his career must in impossible situations. Not sure what you mean by the yips.
Of course you have a better chance to win with a veteran who has experience and a strength you can win with if you hide his weakness than with a young guy learning on the job. At whatever point the season is lost that equation changes IMO. 4 losses is not a list season especially in a year with an extra wc spot where 8-8 could get in. At that point how they are playing now is meaningless and what they grew into will matter.
Somehow it seems this board thinks if you can go 12-4 contend for a bye, clinch the dividing in November it’s time to pack it in. Never understood that.

Yips from the Oxford Dictionary - "a state of extreme nervousness that causes a golfer to miss an easy putt"

I agree about Stidham. 27 passes = less than 1 game. People want to give up on a guy, who is a natural thrower and can run in a pinch, after the equivalent of 1 game.

Are Myers, Gunner and Byrd that bad? Do we need superstars everywhere or do we need players that fit the system? Reduce the turnovers, get the Oline back, run the ball, make short passes and move the chains. I think it works.

Downside - Cam is not a great dink and dunk thrower, he does not have a lot of touch on his throws. We need to get the rookies TEs going to a greater degree. We need the Dline to be better - hopefully we can get Guy, Butler, Cowart and Allen all on the field at same time eventually. And we need the young LBs to be better - Bentley, Jennings and Uche. Bentley looked great against the Denver and disappeared against the 49ers.