idle thoughts - instant reaction

[Demosthenes]

We can't talk about pros and cons or where we can improve?

Our vanilla defense or lack of creativity on defense is a valid criticism. It's not like Joker just threw something out of left field. We've had a vanilla defense for the past few years, UNLIKE the defense we had when Romeo was here when we actually had creativity. We now have a veteran core, good enough players who's been in our system for a number of years. THere is no excuse why we just sat there and reacted.

Sure there is, and Shmessy and others have already explained it. That you don't like the answer or don't agree with the tactics doesn't mean that there isn't a good reason.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Ray Allen shanked a couple of punts in preseason. In his first game as a pro he shanked one and partially shanked another. I hope he has gotten the butterflys out of his system...

It was good to see both Connolly and Canon in there. It means that both are healthy. I'd still like to see Canon win the RG job outright, with Connolly resuming his job as swing interior guy. It would certainly answer the reserve C problem too.

 

[shmessy]

We can't talk about pros and cons or where we can improve?

Our vanilla defense or lack of creativity on defense is a valid criticism. It's not like Joker just threw something out of left field. We've had a vanilla defense for the past few years, UNLIKE the defense we had when Romeo was here when we actually had creativity. We now have a veteran core, good enough players who's been in our system for a number of years. THere is no excuse why we just sat there and reacted.

Of course we can!

If you read anything I've written today, you would see I think BB/McDaniels should have BENCHED THEMSELVES for the brainfart of deciding to throw with 1;12 left in the first half, backed way up in our own territory. Instead of going to the lockerroom up 17-7, woops, interception and quick Buffalo TD lit up the crowd and put the Bills right back into the game.

Just because I disagreed with what Joker wrote about the vanilla defensive plan for today (and pointed out the Buffalo QB ammassed only 150 yards) YOU hyperventilated that this forum is a *********** and should be shut down.

The only one trying to squelch debate is you.

Calm down, Frances.

 

[Patriotic Fervor]

When was the last time a BB Pats team pinned their ears back and ran multiple blitzes on a running QB?

Vick? No.

Tebow? No.

Cordell Stewart? No.

Anyone who has paid any attention the past 14 years would know that, against a running QB, BB almost always plays contain on the edges, keeps DL's in their lanes and tries to confuse the QB on our secondary's coverage.

I'm surprised you and Ken wouldn't know that.

In the playoff game against the Tebow-led Broncos, the Pats extensively used blitzes and stunts quite successfully against that team, for the first time that season.

That's right - although the Pats did use such schemes that season, they did so very, very infrequently, to the point where the Bronco's coaching staff didn't bother to prepare for it.

It was much like when Boris Spassky played Bobby Fisher back in '72. Prior to that match, Fisher almost always played King-side games in white, and that's how Spassky prepared for him. Only problem was, in the run-up to the match, Fisher spent all his time mastering Queen-side attacks, with the subsequent result being Spassky was forced to improvise, and did so badly.

But enough of that.

As a basic rule of thumb, you're right. You don't play it that way. But in that one playoff where the Pats crushed the Broncos, it worked very well, with devaststing results.

 

[Demosthenes]

In the playoff game against the Tebow-led Broncos, the Pats extensively used blitzes and stunts quite successfully against that team, for the first time that season.

That's right - although the Pats did use such schemes that season, they did so very, very infrequently, to the point where the Bronco's coaching staff didn't bother to prepare for it.

It was much like when Boris Spassky played Bobby Fisher back in '72. Prior to that match, Fisher almost always played King-side games in white, and that's how Spassky prepared for him. Only problem was, in the run-up to the match, Fisher spent all his time mastering Queen-side attacks, with the subsequent result being Spassky was forced to improvise, and did so badly.

But enough of that.

As a basic rule of thumb, you're right. You don't play it that way. But in that one playoff where the Pats crushed the Broncos, it worked very well, with devaststing results.

In the playoffs against Tebow, the Pats went with a 5 man front most of the time and they still worked from the outside in to contain the edges and box Tebow in.

Denver also ran a completely different style of offense and it presented different types of threats as compared to what Buffalo ran. That being the case, it's natural that the scheme/tactics would be different.

 

[Patriotic Fervor]

In the playoffs against Tebow, the Pats went with a 5 man front most of the time and they still worked from the outside in to contain the edges and box Tebow in.

Denver also ran a completely different style of offense and it presented different types of threats as compared to what Buffalo ran. That being the case, it's natural that the scheme/tactics would be different.

Yes, they did do that. That only served to highlite the effectiveness of the stunts, they ran - I never saw them do that so often in a game as I did then.

re:your second paragraph - that was kinda my point. The Pats prepared correctly for the game, in view of the perceived threat(s) from the mobile QB. The Broncos did not.

End of game.

End of story.

 

[Ozymandias]

People will always find something to complain about.

A defense holding a quarterback to 150 yards passing in this day and age with these passing rules is far more impressive than getting "pressure". What that tells me is that the pass coverage was exceptional for the most part, which has been the weakness of the defense for years now. Along with that, when you consider the opposition has perhaps the most explosive stable of skill position players in the division, how is this not a good thing?

I would think people would be ecstatic at how the pass defense held up in the back end, but I guess not. And we wonder why we can't have nice things.

 

[shmessy]

In the playoff game against the Tebow-led Broncos, the Pats extensively used blitzes and stunts quite successfully against that team, for the first time that season.

That's right - although the Pats did use such schemes that season, they did so very, very infrequently, to the point where the Bronco's coaching staff didn't bother to prepare for it.

It was much like when Boris Spassky played Bobby Fisher back in '72. Prior to that match, Fisher almost always played King-side games in white, and that's how Spassky prepared for him. Only problem was, in the run-up to the match, Fisher spent all his time mastering Queen-side attacks, with the subsequent result being Spassky was forced to improvise, and did so badly.

But enough of that.

As a basic rule of thumb, you're right. You don't play it that way. But in that one playoff where the Pats crushed the Broncos, it worked very well, with devaststing results.

Ah yes, but remember the first time that season against Tebow?

Much like today.

Then they simply caught the Bronco's coaching staff offguard switching it up for the playoffs when Tebow went pocket passer the 2nd time.

Check out both games. The switch was on Tebow's part. The Pats attacked the pocket passer but played contain against the rushing passer.

 

[shmessy]

People will always find something to complain about.

A defense holding a quarterback to 150 yards passing in this day and age with these passing rules is far more impressive than getting "pressure". What that tells me is that the pass coverage was exceptional for the most part, which has been the weakness of the defense for years now. Along with that, when you consider the opposition has perhaps the most explosive stable of skill position players in the division, how is this not a good thing?

I would think people would be ecstatic at how the pass defense held up in the back end, but I guess not. And we wonder why we can't have nice things.

+1

As I wrote before - - Chicks dig the long ball.

150 yards passing!!!!! And people are upset because there weren't "style points".

Mark Gastineau can count his SB rings.

 

[Baboon]

Some of my reactions to PFK's post and the game today:

1) I thought the run game looked great, except for the complex run blocking schemes, such as screens, which seemed like awful choices for a pats team with so many new players and so early in the season against a fast defensive line. They appeared to me to do great on more straight-forward blocking schemes. I think McD needs to keep it simpler for a bit.

I feel terrible for Ridley. So much skill and power, but he just puts that ball out there as a gift. (I once learned a special forces technique to disarm an enemy with a gun by disturbing their sense of balance. Once they feel that horrible out of balance feeling that every New Englander has felt on an ice patch, they throw their hands out t the side a bit and forget what they are holding. This seemed to happen to Ridley on that ugly play. I would expect more from a pro athlete, but... Uggghhhh.)

5) Amendola far exceeded my expectations. God I wish he was healthy, and pray the pats don't play him Thursday; but I think they will.

6) I love Edelman's ability to do everything... Catches a touchdown then almost makes a great play on kick coverage then fields a punt after a quick three and out. This guy is bad-ass.

7) KT overall was bad, but what I liked about him was that Brady threw to him to often. Brady must have seen something to throw to KT so often. When and if KT's route running improves and his first day jitters go away, I expect and whole lot more.

12) I thought the defense was terrific. It seemed to me they executed the plan, almost perfectly - a solid, non-agressive gameplan. DBs: Talib may have been burned on one play; Dennard with a silly foul; and, Arrington with two forced fumbles. Our biggest weakness last year looked a lot better.

13) The pass rush, I pray, was an issue of scheme. But anytime I pray, I don't expect much.

Overall, I enjoyed that the defense appeared to execute the orders given. Granted, I have no idea what those orders were, but I think it is apparent to anyone watching the team the past few years that the orders were to contain, contain, contain. If tomorrow I learn the orders were to attack, I might lose my lunch.

I think KT will get over the jitters and become a very solid receiver.

I forgot Allen: Ouch! That was horrendous!

And, What's the deal with Spikes? He have too many Buffalo wings last night? I know the feeling.

 

[Fencer]

Ray Allen shanked a couple of punts in preseason. In his first game as a pro he shanked one and partially shanked another. I hope he has gotten the butterflys out of his system...

It was good to see both Connolly and Canon in there. It means that both are healthy. I'd still like to see Canon win the RG job outright, with Connolly resuming his job as swing interior guy. It would certainly answer the reserve C problem too.

Ray Allen is a traitor -- Judas Shuttlesworth -- and Canon makes imaging technology.

 

[ATippett56]

Ray Allen shanked a couple of punts in preseason. In his first game as a pro he shanked one and partially shanked another. I hope he has gotten the butterflys out of his system...

It was good to see both Connolly and Canon in there. It means that both are healthy. I'd still like to see Canon win the RG job outright, with Connolly resuming his job as swing interior guy. It would certainly answer the reserve C problem too.

Ray Allen? Canon?

Official Website of the New England Patriots | Team - Players

 

[supafly]

And, What's the deal with Spikes? He have too many Buffalo wings last night? I know the feeling.

Mr. "I'm not going to show up for OTA's because I'm presently busy improving my conditioning on my own time" was reportedly dehydrated on the second series of the game.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

I think last year the Patriots offense came out in week 1 and racked up like 55 points. The reaction was 'the Patriots are going to light up the scoreboard'. Then week 2 rolls around and the Patriots offense looked feeble, scoring something like 15 points. The reaction was the offense was lacking A and/or B and/or whatever.
The moral of the story is week 1 (and week) 2 rarely provides the foundation for what this team will be in December. And it is the December team that matters most. Yeah it's understandable for fans to watch a game and draw conclusions from it then extrapolate, believing 'this team is probably going to be X'. I wouldn't be so sure of that and not by quite a lot.

Keep this in mind, the Patriots bread and butter, their mojo for the last several years, their blueprint for victory has been 'if nothing else we'll outscore you' using that very potent offense (most especially their potent passing O). This year their receiving group is full of rookies and even unknowns. Guys who have caught very few passes from TB in anger. An evolution will absolutely occur in this area as the season progresses (and hopefully it is a positive evolution). So whether they are lighting it up or look like they can't get out of their own way in September, I'd take great caution in believing it means 'The 2013 Patriots will be X'.

Btw, here's my post game reaction: The Patriots gave up probably 10 to 14 points that turned immediately into 7 to 10 points for the Bills. Take away the TO's and this game likely achieves a modest level of comfort for the Patriots. Yet they won and a win's a win. Unfortunately it also means, per ESPN, the Patriots have already filled their road game victory quota and will lose their next 7 road games. How depressing.....

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

People will always find something to complain about.

A defense holding a quarterback to 150 yards passing in this day and age with these passing rules is far more impressive than getting "pressure". What that tells me is that the pass coverage was exceptional for the most part, which has been the weakness of the defense for years now. Along with that, when you consider the opposition has perhaps the most explosive stable of skill position players in the division, how is this not a good thing?

I would think people would be ecstatic at how the pass defense held up in the back end, but I guess not. And we wonder why we can't have nice things.

Well said. Not only did the Patriots hold the passing game to 150, but another one of those painfully sore areas for the Patriots has been third down defense. They held the Bills to 4 out of 13. Also, the D was responsible for allowing only 14 points. On one of the two TDs they were responsible for, I think the Bills were given the ball at the Patriots 34 to begin that drive (that pretty short field). Further, it sure seemed like the Bills were going 3 and out, or 4 and out, or 5 and out almost the whole game except for their long TD drive (which was the only real, solid, long drive I remember). Taking away the lousy run defense play of the D on that solid Bills TD drive (80 yards), I'd bet the Patriots D gave up a total of 60 to 70 rushing yards for the other 11 to 13 Bills' possessions.
Yeah it's one game and the opening game at that and...........so not much can be gleaned from it. Given that, I'm overall pretty pleased with the play of the D especially given the O's struggles/how they gave the ball back to the Bills' O so frequently and sometimes quickly.

 

[doesntmatter1]

I was pretty pleased with our defense, but I have to be honest and say it seemed we did much better without spikes.

I'm not going to worry about thompkins or danny's health when boyce has shown me absolutely nothing so far. I am scared we are going to need boyce this thursday.

Blount wasn't getting the job done as a running back but his kr were not as bad as I expected. It looked weird but he actually made it past the 20 and I know for a fact that slater would have gotten nailed around the 10. Ridley tried hard to lose the game for us but once we made it to the redzone I was really hoping they would put him back in(kinda).

I do not believe I saw a single pass completed against dennard. Beast. Even though we were losing, I enjoyed the grittiness of this game. The only time I felt pure rage was on the last ridley fumble. As soon as bolden heals up, I am on the bench ridley forever train. I have never been more angry at a turnover than that one. No one even touched him. God.

 

[Sticky Caulk]

"I have to be honest and say it seemed we did much better without spikes."

I know he's always been 'slow', but Spikes took it to a whole new level in the opener. I can only wonder if it has something to do with how he trained over the Summer. Hopefully he was just under the weather, which might help explain the quick dehydration.

 

[Kulko]

Great Post as always, but are you a glass half full guy. In the first half I was desperate to come up with 9 wins for a team that plays like that, and that was while I still thought we had this one iced away.

But looking back with a bit less adrenalin, I think the performance was okish for game 1 and we got the win, if only barely.

Offense:
Its a good sign, that Brady kept going for Thompson, even after all the earlier miscues, because Tom seems to stop throwing sometimes to guys who "drop" his balls. I agree that there is a lot of good signs there, even though Bills Track record is far from great with WRs.

As for Ridley, I highly doubt, people can will themselves to fumble less, so sending should accomplish very little. That said, Steven definitely needs to spend more training time on this issue, but I know another NE Back who managed to learn it, so I am optimistic.

As for Amendola, great game, I just dont seen this guy still being available come January.

Considering they played with a couple of Rookies and Gronk is still injured, the offense is probabaly being good, but not great this year. They drove up and down the field, and just couldnt punsh it in.

Which brings us to the defense. I think this units is needed this year if we want to visit the Meadowlands twice. But I felt pretty good with what I saw there. 14 Points is a good figure and Bill is normally quite bad playing rookies, as he has no film, and knows no tendencies. As always they stopped there greatest asset and made Manuel beat them, and as often it worked out well.

Of course there are teams which will be much harder challenge, but they will face different game plans.

So overall as long as the pats keep improving as theyx did in all years, I still see this team as a surefire division champ, but needing a lot of luck (mostly in player development/injury) to make it all the way.

 

[DarrylS]

Everything that happened yesterday was expected except for the Ridley fumbles and Brady fumble...

I expected the young wr corps to have some growing pains, they did not disappoint...

Defensively the key was limiting Spiller and Jackson, which they did well, which is a classic BB strategy...

Take away the turnovers for the Pats it would have been a completely different game... and we might not have even had any discussion about Allen, Tompkins or anyone else...

 

[patsfanincleveland]

RE: 1. Don't overestimate the Patriots rushing attack - the Bills were 31st against the rush last season and their front 7 doesn't look like it has improved in that area. The strength of their D is their pass rush and pass coverage (with Gilmore + Byrd).

Basically, temper the expectations a bit. The same was said about the Broncos passing attack against a horrendous Ravens pass D.

RE: 7. While Thompkins certainly looked like he was a victim of the bright lights, his numbers from today would extrapolate to 64 catches for 672 yards. That's not bad production for an undrafted rookie free agent. People need to realize that there will be growing pains with these rookies, but regardless they still got the W and that's all that matters.

RE: 13. The pass rush was fine - you don't pin your ears back on athletic QBs like Manuel - you stay in your gaps, remain discipline and force him to beat you from the pocket with his arm otherwise he will hurt you with his legs.

The Patriots executed their assignments perfectly on defense and save for a couple of blown coverages were spectacular in that phase of the game.

Overall, I'm impressed with how the defense played today. If the offense played as well as the defense did and not continuously make bone-headed mistakes the Patriots probably win today by 3 touchdowns or more.

Good point on the defense.

Even ken gets into a habit of wanting a "pass rush" vs great defense.

Where caution is warranted is in evaluating the offense in a vacuum.

Offenses sucked all around the league. Most likely lack of practice time due to the current agreement