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How To Salvage This Season?


Vindicate

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Just wanted to open up some discussion on what you consider both necessary and plausible steps on how to "make most" of this losing season, within the context of heading into the next. I've personally been looking to this question to get an idea of what to watch for in games and - personally? - just some goals to maintain an enjoyment of watching the Patriots for the rest of the season.

Well documented here are the many foibles and fumbles of BB, Kraft, and the Patriots. Feel free to address those, but under the pretext that Bill probably will be here next season. I'm not disparaging those who want him gone, I understand it - however, until Kraft shows a hand that suggests he's willing to fire after giving a recent extension (not totally out of the realm of possibility, just seems very unlikely), I'm operating under the idea that BB is here, as HC & GM.

With that being said, I'll be watching a few things and hope they show a glimmer of hope headed into the next season:

- D.Douglas' continued improvement. When he's on, he looks like my favorite type of receiver. Guy who can explode into his route, get open, then juke people out their shoes. I haven't watched his route running too closely, mainly just notice him once the ball is in his hands. If anyone has insight on his route running ability and other qualities, I'd love to hear them!

- Kayshon Boutte stepping up and being a complimentary speedster to Pop D's sweet feet. It's unnerving that he's failed to get on the field at all, but I've got fingers crossed on the thrust being the first step to putting his speed to good use. Hard for me to know what specifically to watch here - probably just what he looks like presnap, if he's lining up right, and has an understanding of an NFL offense.

- Some base level consistency at the offensive line to put out the fire that is "what's wrong with this offense?" - now, obviously every part is deficient. But if the OL can hold up, the smoke clears a little bit and we can get a more clear picture on reading both Mac and these young, developing receivers. But with that being said...

- I don't think Mac is it. This is where I become unsure of what to look or hope for. This is really just me saying "whatever Mac shows, I hope it overwhelmingly supports either booting his ass out or keeping him in" and such sentiment is followed by it's respective action.

- Tyquan is almost on the same camp as Mac. I've failed to hear much about him outside he isn't making it into the field, which is an indictment when considering the "competition" at the position.

- Will Rham return to from? Fingers crossed. Looked great when it was him and Harris. Again, another reason why it'd be nice for the OL to settle.

At this point, most of my points just are this: using this rock bottom to get a read on what could carry into the future of this offense. I would love for at least two of our young receivers to show distinct competency so we're not so dependent on FA again.

What are you looking for in the rest of this season?
 

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I say take the rest of the season to evaluate your young guys and see how they perform in real game action. We are not making the playoffs, so lets see what we have.
 

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Just wanted to open up some discussion on what you consider both necessary and plausible steps on how to "make most" of this losing season, within the context of heading into the next. I've personally been looking to this question to get an idea of what to watch for in games and - personally? - just some goals to maintain an enjoyment of watching the Patriots for the rest of the season.

Well documented here are the many foibles and fumbles of BB, Kraft, and the Patriots. Feel free to address those, but under the pretext that Bill probably will be here next season. I'm not disparaging those who want him gone, I understand it - however, until Kraft shows a hand that suggests he's willing to fire after giving a recent extension (not totally out of the realm of possibility, just seems very unlikely), I'm operating under the idea that BB is here, as HC & GM.

With that being said, I'll be watching a few things and hope they show a glimmer of hope headed into the next season:

- D.Douglas' continued improvement. When he's on, he looks like my favorite type of receiver. Guy who can explode into his route, get open, then juke people out their shoes. I haven't watched his route running too closely, mainly just notice him once the ball is in his hands. If anyone has insight on his route running ability and other qualities, I'd love to hear them!

- Kayshon Boutte stepping up and being a complimentary speedster to Pop D's sweet feet. It's unnerving that he's failed to get on the field at all, but I've got fingers crossed on the thrust being the first step to putting his speed to good use. Hard for me to know what specifically to watch here - probably just what he looks like presnap, if he's lining up right, and has an understanding of an NFL offense.

- Some base level consistency at the offensive line to put out the fire that is "what's wrong with this offense?" - now, obviously every part is deficient. But if the OL can hold up, the smoke clears a little bit and we can get a more clear picture on reading both Mac and these young, developing receivers. But with that being said...

- I don't think Mac is it. This is where I become unsure of what to look or hope for. This is really just me saying "whatever Mac shows, I hope it overwhelmingly supports either booting his ass out or keeping him in" and such sentiment is followed by it's respective action.

- Tyquan is almost on the same camp as Mac. I've failed to hear much about him outside he isn't making it into the field, which is an indictment when considering the "competition" at the position.

- Will Rham return to from? Fingers crossed. Looked great when it was him and Harris. Again, another reason why it'd be nice for the OL to settle.

At this point, most of my points just are this: using this rock bottom to get a read on what could carry into the future of this offense. I would love for at least two of our young receivers to show distinct competency so we're not so dependent on FA again.

What are you looking for in the rest of this season?

Yes, the rest of the season is all about evaluation.

SECONDARY
We need to see if Jackson and Jack Jones are ready to lead. We also will continue to experiment at safety. I expect us to re-sign Duggar and sign/draft a free safety to replace Mills.

DEFENSIVE FRONT SEVEN
The DL is all signed for 2024. I expect us to draft another youngster.
We need to decide how much we are willing to pay to keep Jennings and perhaps Uche and perhaps Wilson. Their will have their opportunties throughout the rest of the year.

OFFENSIVE LINE
Our current best OL has played for a couple of weeks. They need to play together for many more. For me, the best outcome is tor the line to continue to improve and for us to extend Brown and Onwenu before free agency. Belichick also seems to want to continue to evaluate Mafi. I think that it is more important to play the same OL every week.

RUNNING BACK
There is nothing to evaluate. Hopefully, we will have same RB's next year, plus a backup.

TIGHT END
Yes, there needs to a be a lot of evaluation hers. We should be willing to pay for more than other teams for 2-3 we want to keep.

WIDE RECEIVER
Douglas is our #1, a #1 who will be double teamed. Let him get lots of experience in that role. The most important thing here is to protect him enough so that he doesn't end up with a long term injury.

Obviously, we need to see what we have with the youngsters Thornton, Reagor and Boutte.. 0-3 could be part of the future.

And yes, we both Parker and Shuster have lots of 2024 guaranteed money. They should be evaluated when fully healthy. Either would cost little new money to be our #4 WR in 2024.









After
 
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Zuma

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Salvaging for 2023 or 2024? The only thing to gain from this season is to play the younger players to see what we have going forward to 2024. I also suspect that playing the younger players may be a more productive option for 2023 however…good or bad.
 

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Me?

1.) Keep trying to win games until loss #9. IOW, see if we can't finish 7-2 for a 9-8 record which likely would be a #7 seed in the AFC.

2.) After loss #9....decide whether Onwenu is the future or not....if yes...leave him in at RG. Bench/release Trent Brown...give Sow, Mafi, and others reps at LT/RG/RT. Also, see if Andrews is willing to play a few years or if he gets a little bit dinged up...shut him down and plug in Jake Andrews.

3.) Give Douglas, Thorton, and Boutte all the reps. Maybe even release JuJu and Parker and just eat their guaranteed money... and give Reagor more reps as well.

4.) Start playing Gesicki as a WR...and use Brown even more....man does nothing but make plays.

5.) Experiment with Montgomery in the flats...use EE and Rham even more.

6.) See it through with Mac...keep playing him until we either determine that he is/isn't the guy...if not...give Grier/Cunningham some snaps?

7.) Get Mapu up to speed....and try to extend Dugger or tell him that he is a part of the future. Let J.C. Jackson and Jack Jones finish the season as CB 1 and 2....none of that zone BS...put them on an Island and Jon Jones in the slot.

8.) Ask Slater to be a ST coach next year.... bring in McD as a consultant or Lombardi as a QB coach for Cunningam and Grier.
 

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Me?

1.) Keep trying to win games until loss #9. IOW, see if we can't finish 7-2 for a 9-8 record which likely would be a #7 seed in the AFC.

2.) After loss #9....decide whether Onwenu is the future or not....if yes...leave him in at RG. Bench/release Trent Brown...give Sow, Mafi, and others reps at LT/RG/RT. Also, see if Andrews is willing to play a few years or if he gets a little bit dinged up...shut him down and plug in Jake Andrews.

3.) Give Douglas, Thorton, and Boutte all the reps. Maybe even release JuJu and Parker and just eat their guaranteed money... and give Reagor more reps as well.

4.) Start playing Gesicki as a WR...and use Brown even more....man does nothing but make plays.

5.) Experiment with Montgomery in the flats...use EE and Rham even more.

6.) See it through with Mac...keep playing him until we either determine that he is/isn't the guy...if not...give Grier/Cunningham some snaps?

7.) Get Mapu up to speed....and try to extend Dugger or tell him that he is a part of the future. Let J.C. Jackson and Jack Jones finish the season as CB 1 and 2....none of that zone BS...put them on an Island and Jon Jones in the slot.

8.) Ask Slater to be a ST coach next year.... bring in McD as a consultant or Lombardi as a QB coach for Cunningam and Grier.

Yup. You keep trying as hard as you can to win games until mathematically eliminated from playoff contention. THEN you focus on evaluations re. 2024. Much of what happens going forward will hinge on the OL.
 

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I am seeing reasonable, level-headed suggestions. I'm encouraged that this hasn't become a "Kraft, blow the whole thing up, RIGHT NOW" thread.

We're obviously into a rebuild and it isn't going to be a one year rebuild. I wonder how long a rebuild BB and especially Kraft will tolerate.

One issue with all our division rivals for 20 years is that they would blow up their whole organization and re-start a new rebuild with new staff, over and over again.
 

vicspats

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Just wanted to open up some discussion on what you consider both necessary and plausible steps on how to "make most" of this losing season, within the context of heading into the next. I've personally been looking to this question to get an idea of what to watch for in games and - personally? - just some goals to maintain an enjoyment of watching the Patriots for the rest of the season.

Well documented here are the many foibles and fumbles of BB, Kraft, and the Patriots. Feel free to address those, but under the pretext that Bill probably will be here next season. I'm not disparaging those who want him gone, I understand it - however, until Kraft shows a hand that suggests he's willing to fire after giving a recent extension (not totally out of the realm of possibility, just seems very unlikely), I'm operating under the idea that BB is here, as HC & GM.

With that being said, I'll be watching a few things and hope they show a glimmer of hope headed into the next season:

- D.Douglas' continued improvement. When he's on, he looks like my favorite type of receiver. Guy who can explode into his route, get open, then juke people out their shoes. I haven't watched his route running too closely, mainly just notice him once the ball is in his hands. If anyone has insight on his route running ability and other qualities, I'd love to hear them!

- Kayshon Boutte stepping up and being a complimentary speedster to Pop D's sweet feet. It's unnerving that he's failed to get on the field at all, but I've got fingers crossed on the thrust being the first step to putting his speed to good use. Hard for me to know what specifically to watch here - probably just what he looks like presnap, if he's lining up right, and has an understanding of an NFL offense.

- Some base level consistency at the offensive line to put out the fire that is "what's wrong with this offense?" - now, obviously every part is deficient. But if the OL can hold up, the smoke clears a little bit and we can get a more clear picture on reading both Mac and these young, developing receivers. But with that being said...

- I don't think Mac is it. This is where I become unsure of what to look or hope for. This is really just me saying "whatever Mac shows, I hope it overwhelmingly supports either booting his ass out or keeping him in" and such sentiment is followed by it's respective action.

- Tyquan is almost on the same camp as Mac. I've failed to hear much about him outside he isn't making it into the field, which is an indictment when considering the "competition" at the position.

- Will Rham return to from? Fingers crossed. Looked great when it was him and Harris. Again, another reason why it'd be nice for the OL to settle.

At this point, most of my points just are this: using this rock bottom to get a read on what could carry into the future of this offense. I would love for at least two of our young receivers to show distinct competency so we're not so dependent on FA again.

What are you looking for in the rest of this season?
Pretty much I’m on point with all that. It would have great to see how this defense could have matured and meshed had everyone been healthy. Then you could go into the off-season knowing you only needed to draft, sign free agent or trade for the offensive side of the ball. Now I just wanna see the youngsters seize their day.
 

vicspats

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Me?

1.) Keep trying to win games until loss #9. IOW, see if we can't finish 7-2 for a 9-8 record which likely would be a #7 seed in the AFC.

2.) After loss #9....decide whether Onwenu is the future or not....if yes...leave him in at RG. Bench/release Trent Brown...give Sow, Mafi, and others reps at LT/RG/RT. Also, see if Andrews is willing to play a few years or if he gets a little bit dinged up...shut him down and plug in Jake Andrews.

3.) Give Douglas, Thorton, and Boutte all the reps. Maybe even release JuJu and Parker and just eat their guaranteed money... and give Reagor more reps as well.

4.) Start playing Gesicki as a WR...and use Brown even more....man does nothing but make plays.

5.) Experiment with Montgomery in the flats...use EE and Rham even more.

6.) See it through with Mac...keep playing him until we either determine that he is/isn't the guy...if not...give Grier/Cunningham some snaps?

7.) Get Mapu up to speed....and try to extend Dugger or tell him that he is a part of the future. Let J.C. Jackson and Jack Jones finish the season as CB 1 and 2....none of that zone BS...put them on an Island and Jon Jones in the slot.

8.) Ask Slater to be a ST coach next year.... bring in McD as a consultant or Lombardi as a QB coach for Cunningam and Grier.
Good idea with Gesicki at wide out
 

Vindicate

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I want a high 2024 draft slot.

This is one of those bittersweet things to hope for, and it hinges on both seeing players develop, but not winning too much to kill draft position. What a **** place to be in lmao. Do you buy into this being a potentially "deep" draft? Feel like I hear that every year now so it's hard to believe :/
 

Vindicate

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Me?

1.) Keep trying to win games until loss #9. IOW, see if we can't finish 7-2 for a 9-8 record which likely would be a #7 seed in the AFC.

2.) After loss #9....decide whether Onwenu is the future or not....if yes...leave him in at RG. Bench/release Trent Brown...give Sow, Mafi, and others reps at LT/RG/RT. Also, see if Andrews is willing to play a few years or if he gets a little bit dinged up...shut him down and plug in Jake Andrews.

3.) Give Douglas, Thorton, and Boutte all the reps. Maybe even release JuJu and Parker and just eat their guaranteed money... and give Reagor more reps as well.

4.) Start playing Gesicki as a WR...and use Brown even more....man does nothing but make plays.

5.) Experiment with Montgomery in the flats...use EE and Rham even more.

6.) See it through with Mac...keep playing him until we either determine that he is/isn't the guy...if not...give Grier/Cunningham some snaps?

7.) Get Mapu up to speed....and try to extend Dugger or tell him that he is a part of the future. Let J.C. Jackson and Jack Jones finish the season as CB 1 and 2....none of that zone BS...put them on an Island and Jon Jones in the slot.

8.) Ask Slater to be a ST coach next year.... bring in McD as a consultant or Lombardi as a QB coach for Cunningam and Grier.

I appreciate the various breakdowns, especially the first point. Given a lot of folks are hoping for a high draft position, do you think that exchange (draft position vs. playing hearts out until loss #9) would be worth it?
 

Vindicate

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Yes, the rest of the season is all about evaluation.

SECONDARY
We need to see if Jackson and Jack Jones are ready to lead. We also will continue to experiment at safety. I expect us to re-sign Duggar and sign/draft a free safety to replace Mills.

DEFENSIVE FRONT SEVEN
The DL is all signed for 2024. I expect us to draft another youngster.
We need to decide how much we are willing to pay to keep Jennings and perhaps Uche and perhaps Wilson. Their will have their opportunties throughout the rest of the year.

OFFENSIVE LINE
Our current best OL has played for a couple of weeks. They need to play together for many more. For me, the best outcome is tor the line to continue to improve and for us to extend Brown and Onwenu before free agency. Belichick also seems to want to continue to evaluate Mafi. I think that it is more important to play the same OL every week.

RUNNING BACK
There is nothing to evaluate. Hopefully, we will have same RB's next year, plus a backup.

TIGHT END
Yes, there needs to a be a lot of evaluation hers. We should be willing to pay for more than other teams for 2-3 we want to keep.

WIDE RECEIVER
Douglas is our #1, a #1 who will be double teamed. Let him get lots of experience in that role. The most important thing here is to protect him enough so that he doesn't end up with a long term injury.

Obviously, we need to see what we have with the youngsters Thornton, Reagor and Boutte.. 0-3 could be part of the future.

And yes, we both Parker and Shuster have lots of 2024 guaranteed money. They should be evaluated when fully healthy. Either would cost little new money to be our #4 WR in 2024.









After

What's your read on Brown? Depending on the day of the week it seems we either get "he's garbage and falling apart" or "he's doing his job" - I guess I'm trying to figure out if he has enough in the tank to play another year?

I also agree on the Douglas injury note. He is fast, but those jukes always have me worried. Those quick shifts of direction seem to coincide with injury over the course of a season. Just want him to last.
 

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I love the Patriots - was raised a fan and will never stop.

That said, Fred Sanford couldn't salvage this team (this year).
 

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What's your read on Brown? Depending on the day of the week it seems we either get "he's garbage and falling apart" or "he's doing his job" - I guess I'm trying to figure out if he has enough in the tank to play another year?

I also agree on the Douglas injury note. He is fast, but those jukes always have me worried. Those quick shifts of direction seem to coincide with injury over the course of a season. Just want him to last.
Regarding Brown, from what I’ve seen it’s not day of the week so much as who is talking. Seems some folks just cannot let go of a dislike for him no matter what he does.

OTOH some observers have graded him highly.

I’ve always liked him, especially for his size and ability to pull and block DBs in the open field. But despite my bias it seems to me that those who don’t like him have a biased agenda, while those rating his performance highly are being more objective about it.
 

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Just wanted to open up some discussion on what you consider both necessary and plausible steps on how to "make most" of this losing season, within the context of heading into the next. I've personally been looking to this question to get an idea of what to watch for in games and - personally? - just some goals to maintain an enjoyment of watching the Patriots for the rest of the season.

Well documented here are the many foibles and fumbles of BB, Kraft, and the Patriots. Feel free to address those, but under the pretext that Bill probably will be here next season. I'm not disparaging those who want him gone, I understand it - however, until Kraft shows a hand that suggests he's willing to fire after giving a recent extension (not totally out of the realm of possibility, just seems very unlikely), I'm operating under the idea that BB is here, as HC & GM.

With that being said, I'll be watching a few things and hope they show a glimmer of hope headed into the next season:

- D.Douglas' continued improvement. When he's on, he looks like my favorite type of receiver. Guy who can explode into his route, get open, then juke people out their shoes. I haven't watched his route running too closely, mainly just notice him once the ball is in his hands. If anyone has insight on his route running ability and other qualities, I'd love to hear them!

- Kayshon Boutte stepping up and being a complimentary speedster to Pop D's sweet feet. It's unnerving that he's failed to get on the field at all, but I've got fingers crossed on the thrust being the first step to putting his speed to good use. Hard for me to know what specifically to watch here - probably just what he looks like presnap, if he's lining up right, and has an understanding of an NFL offense.

- Some base level consistency at the offensive line to put out the fire that is "what's wrong with this offense?" - now, obviously every part is deficient. But if the OL can hold up, the smoke clears a little bit and we can get a more clear picture on reading both Mac and these young, developing receivers. But with that being said...

- I don't think Mac is it. This is where I become unsure of what to look or hope for. This is really just me saying "whatever Mac shows, I hope it overwhelmingly supports either booting his ass out or keeping him in" and such sentiment is followed by it's respective action.

- Tyquan is almost on the same camp as Mac. I've failed to hear much about him outside he isn't making it into the field, which is an indictment when considering the "competition" at the position.

- Will Rham return to from? Fingers crossed. Looked great when it was him and Harris. Again, another reason why it'd be nice for the OL to settle.

At this point, most of my points just are this: using this rock bottom to get a read on what could carry into the future of this offense. I would love for at least two of our young receivers to show distinct competency so we're not so dependent on FA again.

What are you looking for in the rest of this season?
Watch the games and enjoy football.
What we think, want, look for or hope has no bearing on what happens.
It’s the NFL, some players exceed expectations, some fall short.

It’s always surprising to me than as observers fans always want to think they contribute and have an impact. You don’t. Just watch it, be happy when they win and sad when they don’t.
 


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