Here Comes Dobsonmania

[Deus Irae]

They wouldn't make him play on his busted foot...he had enough time to get it right. Then it's fine and now pulls a hammy because shape seems to have been an issue...

He played on the foot last year.

 

[captain stone]

The final disappointing straw that broke the disappointing camel's back... The Great Wide Receiver "Re-Do" of 2013 is officially a fail.

(Just imagine how unstoppable this team would be if just ONE of Dobson/Boyce/KT/Amendola could have broken through!)

Or if Bill had drafted the far, far more well-regarded Keenan Allen instead of Dropson.

Hell, we'd have been better-off simply by keeping Andre Holmes, or Greg Salas, or KT.

What's Austin Collie doing these days?

 

[mgteich]

Here's the unfortunate truth, barring significant change moving forward. With Dobson seeming to be useless, and Tyms nearly so, the Patriots are limited to, basically,

1TE
2 WR2/WR3
1 3dRB

in the passing offense, with an occasional appearance by Mr. Wright. That's nowhere near good enough. Unfortunately, once again, Brady will have to find a way to make it good enough.

It could very easily have been so much better....

Brady has 6 principal targets: 3 WR's, 2 TE's and a RB. And yes, we even get the occasional completion from Hooman, Develin or Tyms.

If the line plays well, this set of targets is certainly enough for Brady to "make it good enough".

Could it have been better? Sure, let us count the ways. We could have added someone better than Tyms. Dobson could had a breakout year. DA could have had even an average year. Tyms or Boyce or Thompkins might even have been a serious contributor. We might have drafted a stud WR in any of the last 3 years.

But, IMHO, Brady has a fine set of targets, enough to be a top 5 passing team, perhaps even better.

 

[Deus Irae]

But, IMHO, Brady has a fine set of targets, enough to be a top 5 passing team, perhaps even better.

That offense is potent because of Brady and Gronk. That's it.

 

[luuked]

the players you named are all doing better then dobson.

None of them produces consistently as WR.

 

[supafly]

With the free agent class being as strong as it is this year, I would like to see an additional player of worth (or two) added at the position of WR. In my opinion, there are plenty of options available, and there should be no excuses for failing to address the situation in some form.

Note that some of these players are obviously out of our price range and unrealistic:

--Jeremy Maclin
--Reggie Wayne
--Wes Welker
--Michael Crabtree
--Eddie Royal
--Demarius Thomas
--Hakeem Nicks
--Sydney Rice
--Dez Bryant
--Cecil Shorts
--Denarius Moore
--Kenny Britt
--Torrey Smith
--Randall Cobb
--Andre Holmes
--Vincent Brown
--Kevin Ogeltree
--Darius Heyward-Bey
--Rod Streater
--Cole Beasley
--Aldrick Robinson
--Chris Hogan (7-11)
--Louis Murphy
--Greg Little

AND ALWAYS......Larry Fitzgerald may be another candidate, due to his very high cap hit with ARZ.

 

[luuked]

With the free agent class being as strong as it is this year, I would like to see an additional player of worth (or two) added at the position of WR. In my opinion, there are plenty of options available, and there should be no excuses for failing to address the situation in some form.

Note that some of these players are obviously out of our price range and unrealistic:

--Jeremy Maclin
--Reggie Wayne
--Wes Welker
--Michael Crabtree
--Eddie Royal
--Demarius Thomas
--Hakeem Nicks
--Sydney Rice
--Dez Bryant
--Cecil Shorts
--Denarius Moore
--Kenny Britt
--Torrey Smith
--Randall Cobb
--Andre Holmes
--Vincent Brown
--Kevin Ogeltree
--Darius Heyward-Bey
--Rod Streater
--Cole Beasley
--Aldrick Robinson
--Chris Hogan (7-11)
--Louis Murphy
--Greg Little

AND ALWAYS......Larry Fitzgerald may be another candidate, due to his very high cap hit with ARZ.

I don't think we will have the cap space to sign any of the better ones. A possibility is to get a player like Hakeem Nicks on a veteran's minimum next year after he failed again to produce with the Colts this year. I am not sure he will survive TC, though.

And of course Fitzgerald. I am sure this offseason will be even more fun with tons of rumors about him. Realistically, even if Arizona cuts him we can not afford him. I doubt that he will take a major discount just to play here.

All of this assumes we extend Revis.

 

[supafly]

I don't think we will have the cap space to sign any of the better ones. A possibility is to get a player like Hakeem Nicks on a veteran's minimum next year after he failed again to produce with the Colts this year. I am not sure he will survive TC, though.

And of course Fitzgerald. I am sure this offseason will be even more fun with tons of rumors about him. Realistically, even if Arizona cuts him we can not afford him. I doubt that he will take a major discount just to play here.

All of this assumes we extend Revis.

If we extend Revis, we automatically save about 10+ million against the cap, since he's currently counting for 25 million dollars against the 2015 hit. I believe 5 million is hitting it no matter what, which is how I came to the "10 million" dollar savings. This is assuming that he has an approx. 10 million dollar cap hit for 2015, which I find reasonable.

I don't see why that money couldn't be used for an additional WR, especially considering the fact that they are going to carry some money over + see an expected 2015 cap increase across the board.

When all is said and done, they could have as much as 30-35+ million in cap room, understanding that they have some of their own important players to try and sign, just the same as any other team.

 

[supafly]

I hear what you're saying though, it's probably unlikely that we'd make a big splash. What may help is the deeper FA class at the position itself. That could allow us to see a better than usual player signed.

For what it's worth, I'd highly doubt that Belichick would look at a player like Hakeem Nicks though. His attitude seems to be questionable to me, which is likely why you included the thought that he may not get through camp.

 

[luuked]

If we extend Revis, we automatically save about 10+ million against the cap, since he's currently counting for 25 million dollars against the 2015 hit. I believe 5 million is hitting it no matter what, which is how I came to the "10 million" dollar savings. This is assuming that he has an approx. 10 million dollar cap hit for 2015, which I find reasonable.

I don't see why that money couldn't be used for an additional WR, especially considering the fact that they are going to carry some money over + see an expected 2015 cap increase across the board.

When all is said and done, they could have as much as 30-35+ million in cap room, understanding that they have some of their own important players to try and sign, just the same as any other team.

Yes, we either extend or cut Revis. I would be shocked if he plays next year under the current contract. We have some wiggle room to structure his potential contract so it is possible that we save around 10m.

That being said, he is not the only construction site that we have. Browner is a big decision (5m hit), we need to extend McCourty, Vereen (if reasonable, but you never know with Welker's agent) and Develin. Personally, I would also like to keep Ayers, Casillas, Chung and Branch (again if reasonable). So far they have provided great depth, which down the line might be the difference. Not sure what will happen with Ridley.. but we have depth. He might be back for a minimum salary on a one year deal.

Finally, we also need to either draft a replacement for Connolly or also do something there. We will be able to get rid of Amendolas contract and not be hindered anymore by the Hernandez debacle.

I just don't think we will end up with enough space to get someone like Fitzgerald. I doubt he would sign for 5-7m even if he gets a shot at a ring. I'd love to have him.

 

[luuked]

I hear what you're saying though, it's probably unlikely that we'd make a big splash. What may help is the deeper FA class at the position itself. That could allow us to see a better than usual player signed.

If there is one thing I learned from the LaFell signing it is that Brady can make it work with anyone. Give him somebody at least above average and it might help us to get a big jump.

 

[dales804]

With the free agent class being as strong as it is this year, I would like to see an additional player of worth (or two) added at the position of WR. In my opinion, there are plenty of options available, and there should be no excuses for failing to address the situation in some form.

Note that some of these players are obviously out of our price range and unrealistic:

--Jeremy Maclin
--Reggie Wayne
--Wes Welker
--Michael Crabtree
--Eddie Royal
--Demarius Thomas
--Hakeem Nicks
--Sydney Rice
--Dez Bryant
--Cecil Shorts
--Denarius Moore
--Kenny Britt
--Torrey Smith
--Randall Cobb
--Andre Holmes
--Vincent Brown
--Kevin Ogeltree
--Darius Heyward-Bey
--Rod Streater
--Cole Beasley
--Aldrick Robinson
--Chris Hogan (7-11)
--Louis Murphy
--Greg Little

AND ALWAYS......Larry Fitzgerald may be another candidate, due to his very high cap hit with ARZ.

Good list of names there. I say yes to going after Maclin, Thomas, Shorts, Moore, Cobb. Some will cost significant money but WR is a definite need and the draft continues to not work out for NE in that department.

 

[Rob0729]

I don't think we will have the cap space to sign any of the better ones. A possibility is to get a player like Hakeem Nicks on a veteran's minimum next year after he failed again to produce with the Colts this year. I am not sure he will survive TC, though.

And of course Fitzgerald. I am sure this offseason will be even more fun with tons of rumors about him. Realistically, even if Arizona cuts him we can not afford him. I doubt that he will take a major discount just to play here.

All of this assumes we extend Revis.

The Pats should have plenty of cap space next year. Either Revis will be gone or extended freeing up a ton of space. Mayo will most likely be restructured and freeing up a good amount of space. Wilfork will either restructure or cut. Amendola will be cut saving $1.46 million. The Pats can probably free up about $20-30 million of cap space pretty easily depending on what they do. Granted some of that will have to got resigning guys like McCourty too.

All that said, I don't think the Pats will pay big dollars for a WR unless he is a difference maker like Calvin Johnson. If they are going to make a splash in free agency, I would rather have them spend on DT where there are quite a few marquee names available (Suh, Knighton, Fairley, Damon Harrison, Oderick).

 

[luuked]

The Pats should have plenty of cap space next year. Either Revis will be gone or extended freeing up a ton of space. Mayo will most likely be restructured and freeing up a good amount of space. Wilfork will either restructure or cut. Amendola will be cut saving $1.46 million. The Pats can probably free up about $20-30 million of cap space pretty easily depending on what they do. Granted some of that will have to got resigning guys like McCourty too.

All that said, I don't think the Pats will pay big dollars for a WR unless he is a difference maker like Calvin Johnson. If they are going to make a splash in free agency, I would rather have them spend on DT where there are quite a few marquee names available (Suh, Knighton, Fairley, Damon Harrison, Oderick).

We will see. I think we will be closer to 15m of cap space (including Revis). Then add in the rookie class, (+psquad), all necessary extensions, also add in the usual amount of buffer money (NLTBE, pickups) we keep throughout the season and I can see it dry up pretty quickly.

Of course we can structure everything in a way to make it doable if there really is a big FA that BB wants but I have seen nothing in the past that tells me we would start playing around with cap structure.

Also let's assume we have about 10m to spend after cuts/extensions..

Do you see BB spending the majority of the money on a single player ? I think it will be business as usual where we take in some veterans for cheap and make them audition through TC.

Now if some big name veteran in hunt for a ring tells his agent that he wants to play here, even for peanuts (relatively) ? Then we might have a shot. Unfortunately, I don't think any of the DTs that you suggested would fall into that category.

If Revis is not resigned.. the situation becomes dramatically different and all bets are off.

 

[luuked]

The Pats should have plenty of cap space next year. Either Revis will be gone or extended freeing up a ton of space. Mayo will most likely be restructured and freeing up a good amount of space. Wilfork will either restructure or cut. Amendola will be cut saving $1.46 million. The Pats can probably free up about $20-30 million of cap space pretty easily depending on what they do. Granted some of that will have to got resigning guys like McCourty too.

All that said, I don't think the Pats will pay big dollars for a WR unless he is a difference maker like Calvin Johnson. If they are going to make a splash in free agency, I would rather have them spend on DT where there are quite a few marquee names available (Suh, Knighton, Fairley, Damon Harrison, Oderick).

We will see. I think we will be closer to 15m of cap space (including Revis). Then add in the rookie class, (+psquad), all necessary extensions, also add in the usual amount of buffer money (NLTBE, pickups) we keep throughout the season and I can see it dry up pretty quickly.

Of course we can structure everything in a way to make it doable if there really is a big FA that BB wants but I have seen nothing in the past that tells me we would start playing around with cap structure.

Also let's assume we have about 10m to spend after cuts/extensions..

Do you see BB spending the majority of the money on a single player ? I think it will be business as usual where we take in some veterans for cheap and make them audition through TC.

Now if some big name veteran in hunt for a ring tells his agent that he wants to play here, even for peanuts (relatively) ? Then we might have a shot. Unfortunately, I don't think any of the DTs that you suggested would fall into that category.

If Revis is not resigned.. the situation becomes dramatically different and all bets are off.

 

[PatsFan2]

With the free agent class being as strong as it is this year, I would like to see an additional player of worth (or two) added at the position of WR. In my opinion, there are plenty of options available, and there should be no excuses for failing to address the situation in some form.

Note that some of these players are obviously out of our price range and unrealistic:

--Jeremy Maclin
--Reggie Wayne
--Wes Welker
--Michael Crabtree
--Eddie Royal
--Demarius Thomas
--Hakeem Nicks
--Sydney Rice
--Dez Bryant
--Cecil Shorts
--Denarius Moore
--Kenny Britt
--Torrey Smith
--Randall Cobb
--Andre Holmes
--Vincent Brown
--Kevin Ogeltree
--Darius Heyward-Bey
--Rod Streater
--Cole Beasley
--Aldrick Robinson
--Chris Hogan (7-11)
--Louis Murphy
--Greg Little

AND ALWAYS......Larry Fitzgerald may be another candidate, due to his very high cap hit with ARZ.

Maclin is defintely cream of crop took a one year prove it deal and looks like he's gonna cash in. We know Manning ain't parting ways with you know who. Hakeem Nicks took a one year prove it deal from Indy and looks like a turd he's having problems learning Indy's Offense its hard not to imagine he would struggle here. *really like him last FA* It's not a great class like a few years back but it has some solid players my personal favorites are as follows.

1) Jeremy Maclin = Jack of all trades type player.

2) Torrey Smith = Solid player all around with excellent speed maybe better than regarded.

3) Randall Cobb = Playmaker Percy Harvin type can play inside/out and from the backfield as we have seen.

4) -Cecil Shorts = Solid player on crap Team might be better with Great QB.

5) Michael Crabtree = Might be a one year rental on a prove it deal been solid but has not lived up to draft billing.

6) Rod Streater = Good size could be a Brandon LaFell type.

 

[Rob0729]

We will see. I think we will be closer to 15m of cap space (including Revis). Then add in the rookie class, (+psquad), all necessary extensions, also add in the usual amount of buffer money (NLTBE, pickups) we keep throughout the season and I can see it dry up pretty quickly.

Of course we can structure everything in a way to make it doable if there really is a big FA that BB wants but I have seen nothing in the past that tells me we would start playing around with cap structure.

Also let's assume we have about 10m to spend after cuts/extensions..

Do you see BB spending the majority of the money on a single player ? I think it will be business as usual where we take in some veterans for cheap and make them audition through TC.

Now if some big name veteran in hunt for a ring tells his agent that he wants to play here, even for peanuts (relatively) ? Then we might have a shot. Unfortunately, I don't think any of the DTs that you suggested would fall into that category.

If Revis is not resigned.. the situation becomes dramatically different and all bets are off.

Well, if Revis goes all together, it frees up $20 million in cap space. I think if he gets a new deal, it will free up about $12 million for him alone. Mayo has a base salary of $6.25 million. My guess is they will cut it to $1-2 million with makable NLTBE bonuses. Vince is making $7.3 million in salary and a roster bonus. I am sure he won't see at least $5 million of that if not more. They can cut Hooman and save $1 million.

I think my estimates of $20-30 million are fairly spot on. It will be closer to $20 million if Revis is extended and $30 million if the Pats let him walk.

 

[BobDigital]

With the free agent class being as strong as it is this year, I would like to see an additional player of worth (or two) added at the position of WR. In my opinion, there are plenty of options available, and there should be no excuses for failing to address the situation in some form.

Note that some of these players are obviously out of our price range and unrealistic:






AND ALWAYS......Larry Fitzgerald may be another candidate, due to his very high cap hit with ARZ.

Thanks for the list. Right now I am going to assume we replace Amendola and use some of the savings to get a new 3rd WR. Dobson pulled his hammy last game. He might be yet another bust : (

If all we need to do is replace his production the Pats don't need much and I would not want to spend much anyway. The names I like the most are...

Eddie Royal - not used as much as his talent dictates he should be IMO. clearly a #3 option. Is more of an Amendola type as far as size. Good replacement.

Andre Holmes - He is a raider so we can't say how good he is. 6'4 and add an element to the outside.

Rod Streater - Injured this year but his first 2 were good. 6'3 and an outside threat. Again from Oakland.

Chris Hogan - Didn't do much year 1. Having a meh year 2. If you project his year 3 to be better he is worth a look. 6'1 220

Those are the guys I like the most considering production and price. I don't want to spend on a top WR cause generally I thin kthe position gets over paid and with Edelman/Lafell/Gronk/Wright locked up next year we don't need another top option. Just a competent fill in. IF we have enough money to sign a top WR spend it on defense or OL.

 

[luuked]

Well, if Revis goes all together, it frees up $20 million in cap space. I think if he gets a new deal, it will free up about $12 million for him alone. Mayo has a base salary of $6.25 million. My guess is they will cut it to $1-2 million with makable NLTBE bonuses. Vince is making $7.3 million in salary and a roster bonus. I am sure he won't see at least $5 million of that if not more. They can cut Hooman and save $1 million.

I think my estimates of $20-30 million are fairly spot on. It will be closer to $20 million if Revis is extended and $30 million if the Pats let him walk.

Yes but you don't touch upon extensions for existing players (among others McCourty, Vereen, Gostowski, Ayers, Chung, Connoly, Develin, Casillas, Siliga, Branch..)

The depth level contracts are not high but they add up.

 

[Rob0729]

Yes but you don't touch upon extensions for existing players (among others McCourty, Vereen, Gostowski, Ayers, Chung, Connoly, Develin, Casillas, Siliga, Branch..)

The depth level contracts are not high but they add up.

I said the resigning of other players was a different thing from my estimates. But other than McCourty and Gostkowski, none of those guys are going to get big deals. I think Siliga is an ERFA which means he will get something like $300-400k.