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Hagler v Leonard

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Sun
Sep 26th

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Pape

In the Starting Line-Up
Round
  1. 10 Leonard 9 Hagler
  2. 10 Leonard 9 Hagler
  3. 10 Hagler 9 Leonard
  4. 10 Leonard 9 Hagler
  5. 10 Hagler 9 Leonard
  6. 10 Leonard 9 Hagler
  7. 10 Hagler 9 Leonard
  8. 10 Leonard 9 Hagler
  9. 10 Hagler 9 Leonard
  10. 10 Leonard 9 Hagler
  11. 10 Leonard 9 Hagler
  12. 10 Hagler 9 Leonard

Leonard = 115
Hagler = 113

Put y'alls money where your mouth is... talked a big game in the RIP thread... put it on the line. If you need me to explain a 10 point must system and how to score a fight, I will oblige

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jbean9876abcd

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
Thanks for posting that. I was a big fan of both but of Hagler's by far, and I didn't even live in the Boston area back then. I haven't watched boxing seriously since the 80's (with the exception of random Pacquiao highlights), so I couldn't score that to save my life, but I did rewatch the whole thing for nostalgia.

The problem with posting something like this right after Hagler's death to try to show that Leonard won is that it isn't going to work. Judging is still subjective to some degree, and the timing couldn't be any worse to prove your point. Heck, it's clearly not unanimous even among boxing experts who won - am I going to believe how you scored it or how Arum did it (in favor of Hagler), especially right at this moment? Confirmation bias will be highest in favor of Hagler right now. Watching that again, I see Hagler winning, but I value the aggression and the substance points, even though if I had a fighting style it would mimic Leonard's because of my speed (or what's left of it, anyway).
 

Pape

In the Starting Line-Up
Thanks for posting that. I was a big fan of both but of Hagler's by far, and I didn't even live in the Boston area back then. I haven't watched boxing seriously since the 80's (with the exception of random Pacquiao highlights), so I couldn't score that to save my life, but I did rewatch the whole thing for nostalgia.

The problem with posting something like this right after Hagler's death to try to show that Leonard won is that it isn't going to work. Judging is still subjective to some degree, and the timing couldn't be any worse to prove your point. Heck, it's clearly not unanimous even among boxing experts who won - am I going to believe how you scored it or how Arum did it (in favor of Hagler), especially right at this moment? Confirmation bias will be highest in favor of Hagler right now. Watching that again, I see Hagler winning, but I value the aggression and the substance points, even though if I had a fighting style it would mimic Leonard's because of my speed (or what's left of it, anyway).
its just my opinion about one of the greatest sport discussions ever.

Feel free to join in or don't.

Be objective, or not.

Its on you (collectively) to judge it honestly.

Thats the way I see the fight, and how i have seen the fight since it happened since i paid money to see it on CCTV at the Groton Motor Inn way back when.
 

jbean9876abcd

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
its just my opinion about one of the greatest sport discussions ever.
Feel free to join in or don't.
Be objective, or not.
Its on you (collectively) to judge it honestly.
Thats the way I see the fight, and how i have seen the fight since it happened since i paid money to see it on CCTV at the Groton Motor Inn way back when.
It's interesting reading about the fight because it seems that there are a lot of instances where a single person (experts) will score this fight differently over the years. It's good you're consistent about it - your standards haven't changed - has it always been 115-113 to you? That's pretty tight.
 

Pape

In the Starting Line-Up
It's interesting reading about the fight because it seems that there are a lot of instances where a single person (experts) will score this fight differently over the years. It's good you're consistent about it - your standards haven't changed - has it always been 115-113 to you? That's pretty tight.
ive been in this particular argument with my brother since the night of the fight.
 

reflexblue

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
ive been in this particular argument with my brother since the night of the fight.
Your brother was/is right. I was also a big fan of leonads as well as hagler, he was a great fighter. Leonard would get on his bycicle for most of the round avoiding getting into trading blows, then in the last thirty seconds would throw a series of fast arm punchs, it looked really flashy and impressed the judges, but did little damage. leonard and his team knew that that those flurrys would stick in the judges minds when they were scoring. Leonard used this tactic to win a number of fights after the hagler bout. I lost a lot of respect for him and so didn't many other fight fans. Like someone poster earlier, if your going to go after the champ and take the title it has to be decisive, not up for question. thats an axiom of the fight game.
 
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Pape

In the Starting Line-Up
Your brother was/is right. I was also a big fan of leonads as well as hagler. Leonard would get on his bycicle for most of the round avoiding getting into trading blows, then in the last thirty seconds would throw a series of fast arm punchs, it looked really flashy and impressed the judges, but did little damage. leonard and his team knew that that those flurrys would stick in the judges minds when they were scoring. Leonard used this tactic to win a number of fights after the hagler bout. I lost a lot of respect for him and so didn't many other fight fans.

My brother is 9ne of the biggest boxing historians I know. He also wears his heart on his sleeve, and does not like ray leonard. He knows he's wrong but won't admit it. His whole argument of effective agression, really the only argument Hagler fans can make, is bs because his aggression wasn't effective.

And all the while Leonard would connect with his punches, while Hagler would miss. There were rounds in the fight where Hagler only made contact because Leonard was tying him up and Hagler took a few shots to leonards body.

It's a load of horse crap to say a fighter should win when he throws less punches, hits his opponent less than he gets hit, and spends the fight wiffing on the shots he does take. He never hurt Leonard. He hardly hit him. He missed approximately 70% of the punches he threw, and caught nearly 50% of the punches Leonard threw at him.

Leonard beat Hagler. Rewatch the fight, score it honestly then get back to me.
 
Last edited:

KontradictioN

…with that said, Cam is a great teammate.
PatsFans.com Supporter
2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
Here’s how I have it scored...
  1. 10 Hagler 9 Leonard
  2. 10 Hagler 9 Leonard
  3. 10 Hagler 9 Leonard
  4. 10 Hagler 9 Leonard
  5. 10 Hagler 9 Leonard
  6. 10 Hagler 9 Leonard
  7. 10 Hagler 9 Leonard
  8. 10 Hagler 9 Leonard
  9. 10 Hagler 9 Leonard
  10. 10 Hagler 9 Leonard
  11. 10 Hagler 9 Leonard
  12. 10 Hagler 9 Leonard
 

Pape

In the Starting Line-Up
Here’s how I have it scored...
  1. 10 Hagler 9 Leonard
  2. 10 Hagler 9 Leonard
  3. 10 Hagler 9 Leonard
  4. 10 Hagler 9 Leonard
  5. 10 Hagler 9 Leonard
  6. 10 Hagler 9 Leonard
  7. 10 Hagler 9 Leonard
  8. 10 Hagler 9 Leonard
  9. 10 Hagler 9 Leonard
  10. 10 Hagler 9 Leonard
  11. 10 Hagler 9 Leonard
  12. 10 Hagler 9 Leonard

jamie foxx grammys GIF
 

everlong

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
If it was an Olympic bout Ray would have won. It was a pro bout however so he shouldn't have. It was a great plan by Dundee. Rope a dope part 2........except Ali really won that fight.

Hearns had dozens of punches that hurt Hagler more than all of SR's combined for the entire fight.
 

Pape

In the Starting Line-Up
If it was an Olympic bout Ray would have won. It was a pro bout however so he shouldn't have. It was a great plan by Dundee. Rope a dope part 2........except Ali really won that fight.

Hearns had dozens of punches that hurt Hagler more than all of SR's combined for the entire fight.
huh?

you make no sense. you say on one hand Leonard out pointed Hagler, then say he didnt win on a pro level. Last time i checked, boxing has scorecards for a reason. Not every fight is decided ko tkos or total beat downs. Cant have it both ways.

and The Hagler Leonard was anything but rope a dope.

Hagler Hearns, especially part I, is exactly the reason Sugar fought the fight the way he did.
 
Last edited:

everlong

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
huh?

you make no sense. you say on one hand Leonard out pointed Hagler, then say he didnt win on a pro level. Last time i checked, boxing has scorecards for a reason. Not every fight is decided ko tkos or total beat downs. Cant have it both ways.

and The Hagler Leonard was anything but rope a dope.

Hagler Hearns, especially part I, is exactly the reason Sugar fought the fight the way he did.

I'm not going to get into a long protracted argument with you on this since it's evident you don't want to have a conversation about it. Sugar Ray played patty cake the end of the round to get his points while running around the ring for most of it. He did zero damage to Hagler which IMO, a pro bout should factor that in.

We can agree to disagree.
 

Pape

In the Starting Line-Up
I'm not going to get into a long protracted argument with you on this since it's evident you don't want to have a conversation about it. Sugar Ray played patty cake the end of the round to get his points while running around the ring for most of it. He did zero damage to Hagler which IMO, a pro bout should factor that in.

We can agree to disagree.
Ya know, thats what every Hagler proponent says... Its like some how, for one magical night, winning by decision should never happen unless accompanied by a bloody and beaten loser... what a completely moronic take

I get why you don't want to discuss it... Exceedingly difficult to defend the hollow argument you try to make...

and if you are equating it to rope a dope, it is exceedingly clear don't know what you are talking about and are just throwing out terms associated with boxing, trying to make yourself sound knowledgeable...

You aren't worth my time.
 

KontradictioN

…with that said, Cam is a great teammate.
PatsFans.com Supporter
2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
Really surprised that Hagler didn’t kill Leonard in that fight. He beat Leonard’s ass to a pulp.
 

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