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GoT Season 8

Discussion in 'The PatsFans.com Pub' started by maust1013, Apr 23, 2019.

?

Who falls at the Battle of Winterfell

  1. Beric Dundarion

  2. Brienne of Tarth

  3. Davos

  4. Edd

  5. Gendry

  6. Grey Worm and/or Missandei

  7. Jamie

  8. Theon

  9. Sam and/or Gilly

  10. Varys

Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. Nikolai

    Nikolai Football Atheist PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think that's a very fair criticism and all points with which I agree. I think things like the coffee cup are those little indicators that they didn't put the same meticulous care into the show to which we've become accustomed.

    If Rhaegal had to go down, I would like to have seen him go down this week from a surprise scorpion in the city and have her start laying waste to the city after that.
     
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  2. maust1013

    maust1013 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Agreed, there needed to be a real time trigger event for her losing it. Not to mention all those scorpion shots from a stable platform couldn't do what Urine Greyjoy did from the deck of a moving ship was just numb. Again, we loved the show because it only occasionally did something stupid or defied it's own logic and very seldom had it's characters go against their natures. Now in universe logic is gone and sense has taken a holiday. It's frustrating because it feels like a betrayal.
     
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  3. Zuma

    Zuma Happy Endings PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't expect a super bowl every season...nor do I expect GOT to win it all every year. Expecting a championship every season is unrealistic. Season 8 could be better...it could also be a lot worse.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
  4. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Florida Man PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Or have Missandei get beheaded at the beginning of this episode and cause her to lose it. Varys trying to poison her was another piece of suspect (and I’m being kind) writing. That’s just not something he would have risked. It’s a Littlefinger move. And if he thought he was going to die, he would have left and plotted something else. Unfortunately, this season is only 6 episodes and the writers had already screwed the pooch with his character.

    Compare this to the last season of Breaking Bad. Not even remotely close.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2019
  5. Zuma

    Zuma Happy Endings PatsFans.com Supporter

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  6. Ice_Ice_Brady

    Ice_Ice_Brady PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don’t know. Two years of waiting and an unprecedented amount of money. It’s pretty inexcusable that the writers could put forth such a lazy script. The Dany madness angle isn’t even close to the only questionable part of this season.

    Jamie saying he never really liked the common people anyway? Yeah - he killed the mad king because of this and has always stood behind his duty to protect the innocent - until it didn’t jive with the absurd plot driven spectacle of him showing up at Kings Landing (despite having a bounty in his head), meeting up with an absurd caricature figure in Euron who just happened to swim ashore during the same 20 seconds Jamie was walking into the castle, killing caricature Euron in one of the more idiotic action movie fights ever, and dying with the massively lucky only survivor from the castle, who didn’t even have any armor, his lover/sister, romantically.

    They just did away with Rhaegal, Brienne, Gendry, Turmund, Jon’s direwolf, etc. for silly, out-of-character reasons.

    Bran is a worthless stump despite that he had the power that could have helped them strategically. Tyrion became a bumbling idiot but at least he could magically have the key to unlock Jamie’s chains...and apparently Dany didn’t order Jamie to be guarded - it was someone outranked by the hand of the king. Lol.

    This is trash. Sorry.
     
  7. Nikolai

    Nikolai Football Atheist PatsFans.com Supporter

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    And you're bringing up a good point.

    I actually found only parts of Season 7 even to be all that enjoyable upon a rewatch. I used to rank my top three shows from this era as GoT, The Americans, and BB in that order. I've definitely considered revising down and I'm shocked to say that. Even Americans, while a decent ending, didn't knock it out of the park the way BB did.
     
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  8. Zuma

    Zuma Happy Endings PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't know man...Dany has been ruthless since day 1. She didn't blink when molten gold was poured on her brothers head. At her direction the dragons have been cooking anyone that gets in her way since the beginning. No mercy to Tarly dad or brother either. She even got into a bit of crucifixion with over 100 people. She's been telling anyone that listens she is going to fry up anyone that gets in her way. Those Targaryens are wack...all crazy inbred freaks ! I have no pity for those that didn't see this coming.

    I agree with the timeline flaws...they are horrendous. All that other stuff you mentioned is minor to me....it's "tits and dragons"....i'm not sweating it. I love the show....episode 3 was fantastic....I've watched it 5-6 times now (please don't tell anyone that).
     
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  9. Ice_Ice_Brady

    Ice_Ice_Brady PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Look, Dany torching the city/going mad comes as a surprise to no one. I noticed people tend to reduce the justified criticism to the mere fact that they didn’t like Dany’s heel turn.

    The disappointment with that is that there were like 20 ways to get there besides this. The bells were so stupid and were foreshadowed like 1400 times in the episode, so you knew it was coming. Merely having Cersei refusing to ring the bells - even though it was clear the battle was a blowout - would have been great. Despite having already won obviously, torching the city as a game of chicken/message to Cersei and using the citizens as collateral, that would have been a great power play showing that neither Cersei or Dany were willing to give up the thrown, no matter the civilian cost. And it would achieved the same purpose that she’s essentially insane with over-the-top aggressiveness and paranoia.

    The more glaring issue is that she could have torched the castle immediately. Was torching the city in a long zig zag now a higher priority than getting directly to the throne and just killing Cersei? Come on. This is where all credibility is just destroyed and eight seasons of careful character development/motivations are just crapped on.

    She also could have easily preserved the castle and used her now obtained massive army to just capture Cersei.

    It just makes no sense. That’s why fans are so disappointed in a 10-year lead-up to a final battle that insults your intelligence as a viewer.

    That doesn’t even get into the absurd contrast between how simple it was to kill Rhaegal versus the invincibility of Drogon. In fact she could have taken KL back in Season 1 or 2. All of the army accumulation, lessons learned, were all pointless since a single dragon can now destroy the best fortified city in Westeros.

    Could have also has Rheagal’s death as the straw that broke Dany’s back, if Rhaegal had been killed in that final battle. She was the mother of the dragons, showing a strong parallel to Cersei’s mindset as well.
     
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    Last edited: May 19, 2019
  10. Zuma

    Zuma Happy Endings PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Your points are very valid. Why not go directly and torch the Red Keep. I don't think she planned on torching it but she kept looking at it and got crazy. So she went and torched it and everything along the way...theirs no rhyme or reason for crazy. I think it was superbly insane.

    Yes I hated the differences between the 2 dragons as well. I agree it's pretty lame how one dies so easily and the other is invincible. Surprise attack is the best kind of attack but still...that was way to easy to off Rhaegal.

    I have a feeling tonight is going to be challenging for some. I on the other hand will enjoy every minute of this episode that is sure to have twists and turns we didn't expect...can't wait.
     
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    Last edited: May 19, 2019
  11. Ice_Ice_Brady

    Ice_Ice_Brady PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Breaking Bad was nearly cancelled due to low ratings for season 1 and I think also season 2.

    That’s mind-boggling.

    But it shows how much the show’s writers were committed to the integrity of the story, and AMC stood by them as they saw quality television that they bet on because they believed in the its long-term potential over short-term profits.

    Unsurprisingly Breaking Bad never sold out the story’s pacing and integrity to boost ratings, but the organic building up to seasons 4 and 5 epic finales were still possible.

    I have largely ignored GoT criticism since season 4 (and in fact said that earlier in this thread before this final season), but many fans were pointing out the way they were sensationalizing the show to promote specific characters and cave to ratings grand slams at the expense of the story’s integrity and believability. I can now understand fully where those criticisms were coming from, as S8 has absolutely magnified and expanded this problem to the point where I find this laughable.

    @KontradictioN relevant to your initial post about BB vs GoT final seasons.
     
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  12. venecol

    venecol PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think you guys are over thinking some of this stuff. I mean every single movie has holes in their plots or things that don't make any sense to our points of view. The reality is we're watching a fantasy show with dragons and zombies and guys that die and come back to life. If you are OK with that, what does it matter how they show she went crazy (she was always a crazy child) or how she torched the castle. I wanted Cersei dead, I hated her. The show got me to feel that way about a fictional character. I'm only dissapointed her death wasn't more dramatic.
     
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  13. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Florida Man PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yes, it’s a dungeons and dragons show. No, the writing doesn’t have to be completely compromised because of that.

    Breaking Bad is the gold standard of television writing. I have never seen a show where the character development for every... single... character on the show was so meticulously perfected. Better Call Saul is coming close but it’s missing Walter White. I once put GoT up there with Breaking Bad and, up until about halfway through Season 6, was thinking about making it tops. But I can’t. Season 7 started to show chinks in the armor and Season 8 has had so many ridiculous moments.

    The way Gilligan wrote BB was perfect. Seasons one and two were wind-ups and jabs. Seasons three and four were overhand rights. The first half of season five was another series of jabs, and the second half of season five was a haymaker.
     
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  14. venecol

    venecol PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I loved BB as a show. My entire family watched it together, more than once. Definitely a classic.

    The development of WW as an anti hero and his steady drop into a moral abyss was very well done.

    However, in reality he would have been shot dead during any of the early seasons, so even that show stretched credulity. That did not take away from our enjoyment of the show.
     
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  15. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Florida Man PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I’m not so sure about that. Heisenberg was more of a gangland myth than anything. The only people who knew about him who could have shot him dead were Tuco and the Twins, and Hank took care of all three before that could happen. Season 4 was a true underdog story and Gus was likely on his way to killing Walt before A) he realized that Jesse wouldn’t sign off on it and he needed Jesse, B) he lost Mike temporarily as his advisor after he poisoned Don Eladio and the cartel, and C) he allowed his emotions (for once) to get in the way of his logic and opened himself up to the one opportunity Walt had.

    Walt was, with the exception of Gus, SIGNIFICANTLY more intelligent than anyone he was doing business with. That’s why he was able to stay alive and rose to the top.
     
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  16. Ice_Ice_Brady

    Ice_Ice_Brady PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    ***Spoilers for BB and GoT (not finale spoiler)***

    Development of Walter White as the anti-hero versus the sudden 20-minute cheap plot stunt in GoT is all you need to know.

    Walter became “evil” by choices he made each step of the way. He had the money he needed but chose to stay in the game because he, as he finally admits in the end as the pinnacle of his character development, liked it and found he was a brilliant drug kingpin, instead of lying to himself that it was all for his family.

    Dany in the other hand “goes mad” offscreen in 20 minutes. The last time we saw her she was pretty much normal and trying to get a quickie with her teen idol nephew. The “madness” factor makes no sense. It’s clear from the context that her father became mad by some actual mental disease (it appeared her brother had it too) or by some slow degeneration into isolation and paranoia. It doesn’t just happen because you’re mad/angry, so therefore you’re also mad/insane.
     
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  17. venecol

    venecol PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You're missing all of the other examples already given by others where she was already exhibiting signs of her madness in earlier seasons.

    Even my daughter (she is watching it and is in season 4 or 5) told me the other day she wasn't at all surprised with her actions given the a, b, c, etc that she had already done in the earlier seasons.

    She didn't just go mad in the last episode, she always was.
     
  18. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Florida Man PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Not that mad. She did what she did because it advanced her interests to the throne... either by eliminating a direct threat or serving an example to get the people she needed to fall in line. I don’t think there was ever a direct sign that she was going to go absolutely batshit and slaughter thousands of people after winning the throne. But that’s a product of not doing enough for her character in previous seasons combined with being constrained by six episodes.

    Oh, and also just watched this episode of BB. More absolute brilliance. The unofficial death of Walter White...

     
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    Last edited: May 19, 2019
  19. Zuma

    Zuma Happy Endings PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Perfect
     
  20. venecol

    venecol PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm just glad I binge watched the first 7 seasons in a month last summer. Can't imagine what the people that invested 8 years of their life watching this show think. Lmao
     
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