Gasper: I think Bill is realizing his system doesn't work without high level QB play

[Deus Irae]

Agreed - but its hardly fait accompli that Mac Jones will not be an elite QB.

I never made the claim it was one.

 

[venecol]

I think he could benefit from an offseason with Tom House. But, Mac's arm is not weak. He has the best deep ball of any rookie. His deep ball stats in college were the best ever, and I don't hear anyone diss Burrow or Lawrence for also throwing to good receivers.

All the deep ball NFL stats on Mac this season are completely meaningless when he only has 1.7 seconds to throw the ball before he takes an unblocked hit. And it's not worth proving to mediots that he can throw deep, it's way more important to protect his health this year. Short throws all day every day with this crappy OLine.

.

Please show me the reference to the 1.7 sec TtT. I can't find it anywhere.

 

[Joker]

Please show me the reference to the 1.7 sec TtT. I can't find it anywhere.

TtT??? gotta go to a strip joint to find that info...oh...wait...

 

[venecol]

TtT??? gotta go to a strip joint to find that info...oh...wait...

They have a special at the Mons Venus this weekend.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

and not to be mean, but Grogan, on a career trajectory similar to Brady? I love Steve... but he never won a single playoff game. Not one.

Dreith referees the Snow Bowl; Troy Brown is paralyzed for life in the 2003 preseason; and Jimmy Garoppolo is repeatedly started over him, and Tom's at zero too

I can only add that I saw Joe Kapp play for our Patriots. Now, when the QB takes the snap and takes his drop, his passes should have some kind of spiral form....do we all agree? I SAW Kapp make throws where the ball was hurled through the air END OVER END. You see, when you're a fan and you witness THAT, it leaves you with a sense of embarrassment that THIS guy is supposed to BE a QB and IS your QB. I'd rather not rip open the emotional scars I have from this particular slice of Pats history.

Sorry for that; but his prior success still exists

Joe Kapp??? the guy was here during one of the worst Patriot seasons ever... EVER... 149 effing points...

Fourth, Joe Kapp had one really good year in the NFL. Granted his short career was because of the Vikes screwing him over with his contract and Rozelle determining the contract that the Pats signed him on was not valid and he had to have a new contract which he refused to sign (note the Pats had to give the Vikes a first round pick even though the Vikes voided Kapp's contract). And Kapp decided to retire rather than sign a new contract. So we will never know what he would have been.

Joe's career was finished off by the Chiefs...but he was good before that. Carried his teams better than Bledsoe

Brian Dowling? wtf...

Third, Dowling was a journeyman QB who bounced in and out of the NFL and never stuck with a team in the NFL for more than a few years (most were one and done stints and some not even that long). The only NFL team he stuck on for more than a year was the Pats, but that was because he was a back up. I don't know if I would put him higher than Matt Cassel never mind Bledsoe.

You put Dowling in a situation like Warner, when he was handed the keys when Trent Green went down, and you'd see what he was. Not an exceptional athlete, but awareness, intangibles, play making ability and winning (like Flutie) off the charts.

Second, I think you overrate Plunkett. Sure he as two Super Bowl rings, he was more along for the ride than a huge factor. In fact his numbers sucked. His TD to INT ratio sucked and so was his completion percentage. He never made the Pro Bowl or was an Al Pro. He was just an average QB who hooked up with a great team in an era where teams won on defense and teams could win a Super Bowl with an average QB.

Statistics can back you up a bit...Plunkett is as astronomically superior to Marc Wilson as Grogan is to Eason, in terms of acumen and leadership. Take him away from us and your early 70's look like the early 90's. The Raiders were going nowhere until he took over for Pastorini. The Raiders don't win either of those Super Bowls without him.

Considering Rich Gannon a Patriot, even for the short time he was here before being traded, is like the Chargers honoring Eli for his accomplishments... to phrase it another way... Its something the Colts would do... Yay AFC Finalist Banner!!! Yay.....

He's better than Drew; JMO

Cam Newton anywhere near the top ten of any list makes me want to vomit...

Drew might be a little better than Cam...maybe...then again, maybe not

We also have to remember that APF said years ago that Jim Plunkett was more talented than Tom Brady.

He was. Tom made himself into a great quarterback. It's like saying Michael Jordan is more talented than Bill Russell. Russell is still WAY better.

The fact that you consider QBs 6-10 better than Drew Bledsoe reduces the credibility of your list.

First, when I rank players as who they were the best at a given position for the Patriots, I only look at what they did in a Patriots uniform. I mean you can do it any way you want, but guys like Gannon, Plunkett, Newton, and Testeverde did nothing in a Patriots uniform. Their success was elsewhere.

Bledsoe and Eason were drafted in the first round, paid handsomely, given the starting job with no competition, threw for lots of yards to great receivers, wore number 11 and did nothing from the position to put themselves ahead of Neil Lomax, Jeff George or Jim Everett, for example.

When Eason got hurt, Grogan and Flutie won. When he didn't we lost. Hail Marys to Hall of Famers and blocked punts are nice but not exceptional. When Bledsoe got hurt, Brady won. I saw Gannon and Newton make plays to win games that Bledsoe never did.

Bledsoe should be #2 on that list. The guy was really good when he came out - but the game changed around him and he couldn't adapt.

I loved Grogan, but the guy was nowhere near him stat-wise.

I just don't think Marc Bulger is the second best quarterback in Rams history

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

when I rank players as who they were the best at a given position for the Patriots, I only look at what they did in a Patriots uniform.

You treat Flutie how Bledsoe was treated, and Doug is a close second to Tom all time

 

[Pats1971]

You can still win a Super Bowl with a mediocre QB.

Parcells NY Giants did twice. Sims and Hostetler were good, but not near the top tier. The 4 consecutive Super Bowl AFC representative Jim Kelly Bills were like the modern day Chiefs and a scoring machine. NY held the ball for 40 minutes and Buffalo only 20 minutes. Other teams have won the Lombardi cup as well. Dilfer for the Ravens and Brad Johnson for the Bucs. Foles is another QB.

It can be done.

You have to have a legendary defense, and I am not sure it could be done now. When was the last time? You need a great QB to win today. You are not Trent Dilfering to a superbowl anymore.

 

[Deus Irae]

You have to have a legendary defense, and I am not sure it could be done now. When was the last time? You need a great QB to win today. You are not Trent Dilfering to a superbowl anymore.

I'm assuming you're responding to an "average Joe QB can win the SB" post, so I"ll answer the question in your post:


Eagles, with Foles
Broncos, with the corpse of Peyton Manning
Ravens, with Flacco


And those examples, IMO prove both that it can still be done, and that it's not really something that can be sustained with any consistency.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

You can still win a Super Bowl with a mediocre QB.

You can still win a Super Bowl with a mediocre QB.

Parcells NY Giants did twice. Sims and Hostetler were good, but not near the top tier. The 4 consecutive Super Bowl AFC representative Jim Kelly Bills were like the modern day Chiefs and a scoring machine. NY held the ball for 40 minutes and Buffalo only 20 minutes. Other teams have won the Lombardi cup as well. Dilfer for the Ravens and Brad Johnson for the Bucs. Foles is another QB.

It can be done.

Mark Rypien

 

[Marko]

Chattering about how Bill wants to win right now and catch Shula not win later. And since they haven't been doing much winning since Brady left he probably is considering a Mac-for-Deshaun Watson trade. LOL

Fast forward to 20:00

Google Podcasts

With Google Podcasts, you can find and listen to the world's podcasts for free.

podcasts.google.com

Mac Jones For Deshaun Watson? Making Sense Of Recent Patriots Chatter

They sort of slipped through the cracks, but there were some interesting bits of conflicting New England Patriots reporting late last week.

nesn.com

If there's any truth to that then maybe it really is time for BB to move on. Gasper tho...

Lol, what do you think the Pats record would be with prime Edelman on the team? Very possible 5-1, without Brady.

 

[stephens44]

The Pats never won a SB without an elite CB wearing #24. Belichick's defense doesn't work quite the same way without that elite shutdown corner for some reason (Law, Revis, Gilmore). There's that going on right now, bad O-line play (Dante left the building and the O-line just isn't the same any more), and clearly a lot of mental errors that we just aren't used to seeing.
Jones is playing well enough to win games, the team around him is not.