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Fed appeals court panel says most Obamacare subsidies illegal

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Charlotte Pats Fan, Jul 22, 2014.

  1. jmur116

    jmur116 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Honestly, this is the ideal situation. More than likely, this will move to the Supreme Court, as there are two differing opinions on the same statute. As both hold equal jurisdiction, the Supreme Court is more likely to take up the case, and possibly in the next term. I hope for an expedient review, as this lingering unanswered causes more harm, since people are unsure if they will have subsidies in the next open enrollment. Had it been 1 circuit making the decision, then it may have moved at a glacial pace, with the Supreme Court possibly passing on a review.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Wait, so we can't pass laws at press conferences any more? I thought that was the way it worked now.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  3. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Great ruling ... let's allow the IRS to determine the law of the country ... everyone should be thrilled.

     
  4. JackBauer

    JackBauer PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    ...

    You know what this lawsuit is about, yes?
     
  5. JackBauer

    JackBauer PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The IRS isn't determining the law. The IRS is interpreting the law in a manner the authors of the law clearly intended.
     
  6. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No ... that is not what the law intended Jack.

    The law intended for all 50 states to have exchanges ... for the IRS to regulate that ... the states.

    The ACA used a carrot on the stick approach and a good number of states rejected that as an intrusion.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  7. JackBauer

    JackBauer PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I disagree. The authors assumed that, given the choice, all 50 states would elect to set up their own exchanges. They did not foresee opposition to Obama/Obamacare trumping the discretion and flexibility to implement the law. As a failsafe, the law provisions that if the states do not set up their own exchanges, the federal government would do so instead. It is risible to look at the law en toto and argue that the authors intended for subsidies only to apply on state exchanges. That makes absolutely no sense at all.
     
  8. Triumph

    Triumph PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    By Obama appointed judges.
     
  9. james87654

    james87654 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    thankfully.....and then the supreme court can take it.....if they want to......or they could just let that previous ruling stand.....which would be ideal.......:p

    just my opinion
     
  10. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yeah whether the Exec branch and bureaucrats can twist the law beyond what is written by exec fiat.
     
  11. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    While worrisome, this will probably be overturned. While one federal court struck down subsidies, another upheld it. Laws like this are not overturned on technicalities. The intent of the Congresspeople who voted for Obamacare was clear, and there's nothing in the Congressional record to suggest their intent was to prevent a federal exchange providing state insurance. In addition, even if this is upheld, which is unlikely, the White House still has options, as the last link points out. That link also notes that states are going to be reluctant to deny millions of people who have Obamacare with the subsidies they were promised. For a conservative State, it's a lose-lose situation.

    http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/dc-circuit-obamacare-subsidies
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/22/judge-harry-edwards-obamacare-ruling_n_5609897.html
    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/obamacare-halbig-workaround
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Opinion and facts are not the same ...

    Gay marriage debate ... abortion ... immigration ... just a few examples of topics that do not have absolutes. However jack ... I think it's a great human trait to be truthful at all times in discussions ... even when one's opinion is in the minority. having discussions with political lemmings are difficult IMO ... hard to discern one's opinions from their loyalties ... especially in a forum.
     
  13. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Where?

    If that's true, how did this case ever see the light of day?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Would not hold on to the Supreme Court doing anything, the principle of "Stare Decisis" is seldom violated.. although it happens, the decision usually stands. That is a huge reason why things seldom change after a SCOTUS decision is made.

    Stare Decisis is Latin for "to stand by things decided."
     
  15. JackBauer

    JackBauer PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Even if true, which I highly doubt, what's your point? Who appointed the two majority judges on the DC Circuit panel?
     
  16. JackBauer

    JackBauer PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The Chevron Doctrine. Perhaps you've heard of it?
     
  17. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Final Word:
    E-Mails were destroyed (proves laws were broken)
    Lois (Witch) Lerner belongs in prison.
    IRS Sucks, always has.
    Michelle is a man.
     
  18. JackBauer

    JackBauer PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    That has been the design of the law since its inception.

    The case saw the light of day because a couple of folks critical of the law concocted a theory and managed to get some sympathetic judges to buy their theory.
     
  19. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think the actual text of the law is not a "theory". "Intent", however, does sound somewhat theoretical...
     
  20. JackBauer

    JackBauer PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The theory is that the authors intended for subsidies to only apply on state-run exchanges, which is based on the related theory that the text as written was intented rather than a glorified typo.
     

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